Carbineer Archive

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AdmiralSpy wrote:

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galvatronicus wrote:

BTW, BH/carbineer is oooober in my opinion, although I can honestly say I have never faced off against one of these vaunted carbineers with melee defenses before. defense stackers can be dealt with, defense stackers with ranged attacks are a different nut to crack altogether!

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It's not even a contest. Why? Let's examine what makes a BH/Carbineer so strong:

1) Speed: With attachments and/or FS skills and/or good speed-reducing tissue, a defensive Carbineer can easily speedcap any weapon a BH/Carbineer can.

2) Damage: Related to the above, since a defensive carbineer can use the same 4.0 speed weapon a BH/Carbineer can, and since both have CrippleShot and ScatterShot2, their damage is inherently the same.

3) States: BH/Carbineers cannot overcome 95+ state defenses. As a BH/Carbineer, inflicting states on a Defense-stacker is bad enough. While 120 KD defense may be a lot, keep in mind that the "effective cap" for any state defense is 95, because there is always a 5% chance of inflicting a state on someone, regardless of their defenses. That said, good luck tring to stun, dizzy or blind a defensive-Carbineer who has 80-90 to all states.

4) Posture/KDs: Related to the above, it is near impossible to KD a defensive Carbineer, or even posture change them

5) Specials: Underhand Shot, ConfusionShot, FireKD and SprayShot become worthless for the aforementionned reasons.

Now couple the fact that:

a) it's 100% ranged: Jedi and Meleer's eat you alive

b) It has no defenses: it's hard to stay up, easy to go down

c) you can't heal yourself: only novice medic or part medic dabbling works

d) lower damage compared to other classes (easily resisted with PSGs, 80% armor, steak, etc.)

And you've got yourself a great template that can also easily be destroyed.

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I agree with what you are saying, except that a BH/carbineer does have the advantage of terrain negotiation and a melee fighter is only dangerous if you let them into melee range. Other than that I fully agree that effecting posture changes on defense stackers is almost a wasted effort, and that when you give defense stackers a ranged attack (such as carbine use) as a BH/carbineer your lack of defenses are too much of a liability to overcome.

I still call my template uber though, mostly out of blind love for carbines and sprayshot.

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galvatronicus wrote:

I agree with what you are saying, except that a BH/carbineer does have the advantage of terrain negotiation and a melee fighter is only dangerous if you let them into melee range. Other than that I fully agree that effecting posture changes on defense stackers is almost a wasted effort, and that when you give defense stackers a ranged attack (such as carbine use) as a BH/carbineer your lack of defenses are too much of a liability to overcome.

I still call my template uber though, mostly out of blind love for carbines and sprayshot.

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Remember a Carbineer Defense Stacker must be a max SEA Stacker too.

And the Travel Biscuit (TN Food) is only 8 Filling with a +18 TN so Scout is not needed on my Carbineer Defense Stacker.....oh with +115 KD Defense I don't need Thak either

ok then im not a carbineer, im a bounty hunter enhanced carbineer better?

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CIO_DarkSaber wrote:

So where IS the BH-carbineer template forum?

I would go hang out at the BH forum, but too many kids and flamers over there.

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Otegu123 wrote:

Iwas under the impression that the 5% chance to land a state is only for KD.. i had above 100 def vs dizzy once and im pretty sure i was immuneto it.. i never once got dizzied, even after 100's and 100's of fights

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AdmiralSpy wrote:

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ZandorFelok wrote:

P.S. - Out of the 4 rifleman I have dueled (no armor no deathblow) I've won all 4 duels. Its all about the state effects, KD/Dizzy DIE!!!!

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Riflemen are some of the easiest to duel as a Carbineer, because of their lack of state/posture defenses. I wouldn't base your success purely against that template, heh. It's funny because I used to fear Riflemen, but now I barely see any in PvP. Our guild only has two (Riflemen/Fencers) and they end up using a Stun Baton 75% of the time.

Riflemen used to be one of the top classes, but the sheer migration towards 40 stun 80%+ base and PSGs along with better mind foods like Brandy and Canape has rendered this profession a generic PvP one.. not *uber* but not underdog.

Try dueling a Pikeman/Doc or Pikeman/TK/Fencer or a Fencer/TK/Pistoleer or anyone with Master Brawler. Heck, anything with DoTs, Doc or Defenses will give a BH/Carbineer a run for their money. The 3 "D"s as I call them can destroy an unequipped Carbineer.

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I've noticed a trend from Rifles to Fencers lately aswell, but I wouldn't say it was because Rifle's was less effective, just that Fencer by its nature is easier to survive with. Dodge makes anyone an instant hero now.

Personally, I'd like to duel someone such as you. My guild leader is a MBH/Carbineer, but for the life of him, he can't beat me(Rifleman/Non-DOT Pikeman), even using his mind poison carbine. I will say though, dueling a carbineer can be annoying as Christ. Dizzy, KD'd, stand, fire a few shots, dizzy, KD'd, stand, etc.

Guess my view is just skewed. Most of carbine 'greats' on Scylla just spammed chargeshot.

If the opponent is ranged, I'll play likewise and start the duel anywhere outside of melee range. If they close the range, or allow me too, I'll go for the Pike dizzy/KD. If not, I'll try to withstand the onslaught of state effects and KD's.

I really don't use Pike for PvP all that often. I have the speed attachments and the high-damage Pikes, but like you said, it takes DOTs to be truly successful. While I have a collection that would make most people cry, I refuse to sink to that level. Pikeman was my first profession, and it will be my last. The only people I've used my DOTs on were guildmates, simply because I wanted to hear them say, "WHAT THE CHRIST WAS THAT?!?!" on our Ventrilo server. The chances of Pikeman ever getting fixed lower further and further with each kid that gets his mind fire lance and is ready to pwn the world.

Granted, I don't PvP often at all now. I'm tired of DOT-wars, glow bats and most of the people involved, so I know I've not experienced the latest and greatest that people have to offer, particularly the ever increasing number of Fencers with Acklay weapons. Maybe I'm just lucky. Hell, a large portion of it is my equipment. Med use 40 Stim E's rule the world.

I too have considered going Carbineer/Pikeman for complete action pool pwnage, but its just pretty funny sometimes to see my combat log fill up with blocked attacks, even if the skill does suck

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Dynastar wrote:

Granted, I don't PvP often at all now. I'm tired of DOT-wars, glow bats and most of the people involved, so I know I've not experienced the latest and greatest that people have to offer, particularly the ever increasing number of Fencers with Acklay weapons. Maybe I'm just lucky. Hell, a large portion of it is my equipment. Med use 40 Stim E's rule the world.

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Hah yeah, it's the same on most servers. PvP is just about DoTs, Defenses and Docs.. and you're right in stating that many pick up FOTM templates like Fencer just because it's a great standalone.

And yes!! Much <3 to the Med Use 40s.. I'd belost without em.

hey addy, we need to duel soon, i've gotten MANY new toys.......

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bOoGiEman7 wrote:
hey addy, we need to duel soon, i've gotten MANY new toys.......

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Sure thingbro Name a place, date and time.