Carbineer Archive

Action Shot 2 buys me one shot against melee mobs during which they are standing up and can't attack/chase. If they are going to increase the timer to 30s they should increase the duration of the effect or the damage done. There are so many broken carbine skills which aren't being fixed and which the devs "aren't aware" of it's kind of a slap to be getting nerfed first. Sadistic Dungeon Master Syndrome strikes again. (thats where the game controller identifies with the monsters and uses his powers to destroy the players at every opportunity.)

While I agree that 30 seconds is going to make some of our class defining skills piss poor, at the same time should I be able to solo 4 mountain dewbacks at one time with a little medic support? Regrettably, the answer is no. That and I'm not even sure a tier 0 novice carbineer skill should be an area affect bleed, posture down. It's arguably more powerful than chargeshot2(assuming it worked)in PvE.

One thing I find myself wondering though, is thatwith the commonness of melee creatures and marksman taking extra damage in melee, how is an area affect attack that doesn't prevent creatures from reaching you anything but suicide?

Anyway, rather than bitching about a nerf to what we all have to admit is an overpowered skill, let's think of a better solution instead.

What if we had a skill that was anarea affect posturedown w/o timer that didnil damage. Then we would still be good at crowd control, but not able to take on an army of mountain squills all at the same time. After all, we don't gain any skills at Master right now either.

If I'm not supposed to solo four mountain dewbacks, then why do those missions keep showing up?

It's a rhetorical question.

Here I am in a foolish profession that has tons of problems, and instead of improving my lot, they're thinking ofnerfing the one thing that made being a Carbineer *possible*.

There has GOT to be a better solution than this. I don't plan to spend all my time in SWG trying to get a template that works. At some point, I'll just pack up my tent and leave.

only make the delay in pvp if it is a problem if u do it in pve so many gun classes are dead meat against the ober melee mobs that do 3 times damage lol its bad enough when u miss action shot one time and the mob kills u for that miss. It would be a big mistake to nerf it in this way for pve unless u are basically saying all gun classes are casters now and everyone better get creature handling to have something as a meatshield. then the game will be bounty hunter vs bounty hunter.

And therein lies the rub. We're so area-attack and crowd control focused that with crowd control nerfed over 80% of the profession is waste.

In fact, there's no more point in being a carbineer, since we can get pistol specialist in marksman and be more useful to a group spamming bodyshot2 with an FWG5.

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HeDrums wrote:

If I'm not supposed to solo four mountain dewbacks, then why do those missions keep showing up?

It's a rhetorical question.

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I will answer your rhetorical question. We're supposed to group up to do those missions.

I have no problem with the knockdown nerf, especially for PvP. With knockdown, all fights basically degenerate into who can KD who first. There's no strategy or intelligence involved in that.

*shift in train of thought*

The devs will argue that we should not ever be able to solo red /con mobs. I agree, then why can a CH do this?

How are you soloing 4 mountain dewbacks? With minor medical attention? The only way I could do this is if I had a doctor standing right next to me laying stim-d's on me everytime my HAM got below 50%. Even then, I'd have to pray that my actionshot2 worked every single time on every single mob, or I'd be dead.

Thing is, with the HAM costs the way they are, I can barely solo a single white /con mob. Posture down only lasts about 4 seconds. That's enough time for me to get off 2 burstshots with my fastest carbine, each sucking me for another 85 HAM.

I'm jumping around a bit, but the basics of it are this:

We are a ranged fighting profession. If a MOB gets close to us (even a white /con mob), we don't last long. Fine, no problem. They gave us the tools to dictate the pace of the battle and keep the mobs at a distance where we are effective. If these tools are taken away, then we are no longer effective at all. The only way left to keep the mobs at a distance is to become a CH.

Codak

Master Ranger / Carbineer

Naritus

Don't you think that some of you are being a tad melodramatic? You're spoiled by combat professions being unintentionally overpowered during this early stage of SWG. Those of you who are complaining see one thing you don't like, and ignore the good stuff, most of which are changes that people have been begging for on this forum anyway. When I read Holocron's post, I was pleased for us carbineers:

+Chargeshot2 fixed to work in a cone - good
+Increased penalty for firing while moving, defensive bonuses for moving targets - fine, I mostly fight stationary in kneeling/prone postures anyway
+Added 30 second timer to knockdown/posture changes - fine, I'm a 0-0-0-0 Novice Carbineer and I already have 3 posture down shots I can juggle, and I'll get even more as I skill up - plus I can always warning shot non-humanoids when posture change doesn't take hold
+Decreased the cost of ALL knockdown moves - great, lowered HAM costs
+Increased the damage on all knockdown moves to compensate for 30 second timer - very good
+We still want to investigate: move costs for cabineers - very good, disqualifies people's whining that their carbineer issues are being ignored

I won't make a judgment 'til I see how this knockdown/posture change timer plays in game. Has anyone tested these changes out today? What I'd like to know is whether there's a separate 30 second timer for each shot with a kd/pc effect (as I thought I understood when I read Holo's post) or is there a single 30 second timer that would control ALL kd/pc shots (as some others have concluded - and which would indeed suck). And I think that Holocron only used the term knockdown, has anyone tested to be certain that this includes posture-down effects? I'd like hard facts from people who's seen these changes in action.

This and other game changes will separate the strategists from the button-spammers.

Bah. No one is soloing four dewbacks. Even if you could count on your actionshot never missing the ham costs would cripple you. People do raise a valid point though. Without crowd control through posture/knockdown effects we are left with a whole lot of AOE aggro and no way to contain it. A change to the gameplay this fundamental needs some balancing action to keep the profession viable. The big destroy missions are obviously for groups yes, but solo play is also an important gameplay factor. Small groups which are many people's preferred hunting styleare also going to be significantly reduced in crowd controlability by this move. With a 30s timer the posture down effects will become negligible. That one attack round of space doesn't buy you much.Even burst running with lvl 4 scoutingmost post-newbie monsters are still going to run you down. The question is what strength do the carbineers have to compensate for this loss? How will this class which is so heavily based on crowd control effects still have a niche? AOE becomes, as someone nicely put it, - suicide-, and we got a whole lot ofit. A bunch of the weapons in our arsenal are already broken and we are losing the biggest guns we had remaining. The knockdown spam had to go, ok, but where is the love?

Bah. No one is soloing four dewbacks. Even if you could count on your actionshot never missing the ham costs would cripple you. People do raise a valid point though. Without crowd control through posture/knockdown effects we are left with a whole lot of AOE aggro and no way to contain it. A change to the gameplay this fundamental needs some balancing action to keep the profession viable. The big destroy missions are obviously for groups yes, but solo play is also an important gameplay factor. Small groups which are many people's preferred hunting styleare also going to be significantly reduced in crowd controlability by this move. With a 30s timer the posture down effects will become negligible. That one attack round of space doesn't buy you much.Even burst running with lvl 4 scoutingmost post-newbie monsters are still going to run you down. The question is what strength do the carbineers have to compensate for this loss? How will this class which is so heavily based on crowd control effects still have a niche? AOE becomes, as someone nicely put it, - suicide-, and we got a whole lot ofit. A bunch of the weapons in our arsenal are already broken and we are losing the biggest guns we had remaining. The knockdown spam had to go, ok, but where is the love?

Yes, people are/were soloing four dewbacks, easily.. More if you like, didnt really matter as long as you got them all in the cone. Actionshot2 with a cdef did that, didnt matter if the mob was red, as long as it didnt have a ranged attack.. as many as you could find in a pack would die. You didnt even need medical attention for that, cdef ham costs were low enough to keep that going infinitely, and that was probably better exp with the right mobsthan the slow moving jaxes ever were..

accually you can use action shot 2 -areafull auto and then -surpression fire -areafull auto - action shot 2 and so on. i think action shot lasts about 10 seconds anyway

i will hit some group of somethings 1 time tongiht and count to find out.

you

I could never take down more than 2 of anything at once that was much tougher than a durni solo either...If the skill allowed people to take down 5-10 red mobs as claimed then I would consider it exploitation of a design flaw, even though it is not exploitation in the strict sense of using a bug to your advantage. I honestly can't imagine such a thing really but I don't want to call someone aliar...

Yes, soloing multiple nasty critters with AS2 is easy, as long as you have someone nearby to heal you occasionally. If your HAM costs are so bad that a medic isn't able to keep you alive, then you'll probably want to look into a more efficient gun. DH17's are nice right now, despite being ar0.

I did not call this an exploit. However let's be honest with ourselves. Does anyone here really believe that the actionshots are SUPPOSED to posture down? I sure as hell don't, no matter how much I like the skill. SF2 is an area PD(once it works), and it is tier 4. So why should we be getting that power at tier 0, PLUS an action bleed? Does anyone here also believe that with PD/KD attacks, any marksman should be able to solo any red, given enough time? Again, I sure as hell don't.

"FWIW, a single carbineer is not enough to take out big groups of aggros. You need 2 because a miss is death." - Sorry, but you're either full of it or incompetent, when I read that statement. Get a faster gun. With a 2.8 speed DH17, I can actionshot, leg leg leg, actionshot. If I miss one action, I merely toss out another. Even with a laser carbine, I can afford to miss, albeit only once.

You're missing my point though. PD/KD needs a solution, as in both PvP and PvE, it's too f'ing powerful. A 30 second timer is an artifical and inferior solution, so instead of complaining about losing some of the benefit of a blatantly overpowered skill, let's think of a better solution and send it through our correspondent. Making KD/PD resists may be a good solution, but at the same time I think you might be failing to consider that this could actually hurt us MORE than a 30 second timer.

I want Carbineer to be un-borked, but not via an obviously overpowered skill.