Carbineer Archive
Thread: We are getting a HUGE nerf.
I would like to mention that yes, I can solo a yellow con mob some of the time. It depends on the mob. Tusken Banthas, for example, move slowly enough that I can hit, run, heal, hit, repeat until they are dead.
I cannot solo a red con mob. I suppose I may have gotten lucky once where all my shots landed and all did high damage, but in general, the HAM damage I inflict on myself (by specials and healing) plus whatever help the mob gives me is more than enough to kill me.
I am not a CH, and can't ever see being one (despise the whole notion), and maybe that's the difference. The proposed nerf will certainly make it possible for much lower-level mobs to wipe the floor with me. At which point I will simply take my money and move to another game.
Indicant wrote:
I could never take down more than 2 of anything at once that was much tougher than a durni solo either...If the skill allowed people to take down 5-10 red mobs as claimed then I would consider it exploitation of a design flaw, even though it is not exploitation in the strict sense of using a bug to your advantage. I honestly can't imagine such a thing really but I don't want to call someone aliar...
Find a bunch of reds, maneuver around them until they all fit roughly in the fire cone, kneel/prone and AS2 until they are all dead. Again, this may require medic attention if you're using more than a CDEF, but it still works. It isn't rocket science. You are using an area affect attack that immediately roots all attackers. If they are melee only, they won't hurt you, period, no ifs, ands, or buts. This was fun(but somewhat dangerous) with baz nitches. Even when they made them aggro you could do an entire lair at a time, but for that you'd need a Master Medic or better. Just because you "can't imagine such a thing" doesn't mean it's impossible, or even hard.
If you need a medic standing around to heal you while you fight a red con mob, you are not soloing.
I cannot fight a red con mob and heal myself and win the fight. I always run out of HAM (or roast beef) before the mob does. I don't use stinking critters.
TickTock already described it pretty well, but to illustrate it better.. Here are some screenshots, they're old though, from the first week after release. Didnt really bother screenshotting this stuff anymore after that 
These are the first mobs I started testing the thing on, they werent very good exp compared to what you can do with it
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bane-a-chu/screenShot0072.jpg
Next I started moving on to bigger mobs.. The friend I have with me is just leeching CH exp, not attacking at all. She did have some medic skills though, so I got a stim here and there.. It somewhat speeded the thing up, but wasnt in any way required
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bane-a-chu/screenShot0074.jpg
..like you can see in this one. This one prolly shows what the thing can actually do the best, timetabs arent on but all the exp messages are just about at the same time.
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bane-a-chu/screenShot0075.jpg
Like said, those are old shots from the very early days, during the next week I moved on to higher mobs as those started feeling like bad exp, I stayed on tatooine the whole time though.. I'm sure more creative people could've come up with better things to kill.
Overpowered? For sure. If that'd be classified as an exploit though.. I dont know, definitely at least as much as killing the slow moving mobs, jaxes and whatever there were. This one just wasnt fixed
The whole point is that with a CDEF you can regen back action while still keeping the things "rooted" if you just space your attacks a tiny bit. Damage, area effect and root in the same move basically just screams "NOT INTENDED", I cant imagine how it could be even though its not fixed yet, I guess enough people havent been using it to its full potential. The timer nerf of course fixes that but I dont think it was really aimed at actionshots specifically at all, just a sort of a side effect.
HeDrums wrote:
If you need a medic standing around to heal you while you fight a red con mob, you are not soloing.
I cannot fight a red con mob and heal myself and win the fight. I always run out of HAM (or roast beef) before the mob does. I don't use stinking critters.
No, it isn't solo, but the ability to kill any group of any melee only npc/mob with 2 people?
And yes, CH are also a big part of the broken con color equation. Not sure what they can do about that though, without either suspending disbelief with illogical actions, or completely gimping the class.
Umm... actually, it's very realistic to kill a large number of melee-only fighters with just two people who never get touched, when one of them is using an assault weapon (akacarbine)
That's a big part of the point of automatic fire weapons, being able to put enough shots into the air to hit multiple targets that are close together, and to make combatants keep their heads down. If this game were "really realistic" then being hit with a weapon would have crippling effects a great deal of the time (riiiight, you're really gonna be able to catch up to me when your femur was shattered by a bullet).
As I said, my main problem with this change is that it takes away a tactic that wasn't infallible, but could be critically useful in combat. As more and more such tactics are removed, we're being left with a game where - like Evercamp - a 4 person team with a healer and a heavy-armor tank is a minimum requirement forkilling blues and whites at a resonable pace.
I still say to the people that think the posture changes make things too easy...how the hell else we will kill 95% of the mobs in this game??? How do we do a lair with social creatures?
Also...
"The whole point is that with a CDEF you can regen back action while still keeping the things "rooted" if you just space your attacks a tiny bit. Damage, area effect and root in the same move basically just screams "NOT INTENDED", I cant imagine how it could be even though its not fixed yet, I guess enough people havent been using it to its full potential. The timer nerf of course fixes that but I dont think it was really aimed at actionshots specifically at all, just a sort of a side effect."
Yes...but they are not just nerfing actionshot2. They are nerfing the high end skills such as Suppressionfire2 and chargeshot2 which have those 3 abilities. They are also nerfing skills that only do 2 of those such as actionshot1 and suppressionfire1. In addition, they are nerfing ALL AoE effects because using them will be suicide...either you do not want to aggro a group my using them or if you do have a group aggroed on you, we all know it is far better to concentrate all damage on 1 target and kill that first rather than spread damage out.
In essence, AoE effects w/oroot effectshave no real use except to kill a lair ofparalopes in 1 shot. If they were making suppresionfire2 not do any damagebut still do posture charges, I would say that's fair. Same with suppresionfire1. I would even say that removing AoE (bleed/posture only) from AC2 would be fair.But now, a mob can only be postured or knockdowned once every 30 seconds...not once per person, but once per 30 seconds (Holocron clarified this). This makes posture changes pointless...might as well just knock them down.
I honestly so zero role for carbines after this patch. ZERO. Please, anyone explain to me what the role of carbines will be.
I agree completely with novamarine. I am stunned that the developers are thinking along these lines. There are so many implications of even "simple" changes like this that have massive, negative impacts on so many areas.Such a change should be unthinkable, but clearly it's not.
My only hope is that since it was floated as a sanity check, the developers will review the hundreds (nearing thousand+) posts on this topic and abandon this insane idea.
Knockdown needed a nerf, but posture change timers are an overkill. Especially in PvE.
I would agree that they should move the posture changes to the intended skills (suppresivefire 1 and 2), and reduce the damage that they do (ala the melee lunge nerf). However, short of a massive HAM pet, posture changes are all we had to keep BAF and particularly nasty critters at bay.
I have visions of marksmen chaotically firing and running in circles with mobs on their heals whilemedics chase after them to try and heal.
The very thought makes my head hurt.
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Nayr Iwrase
Sunrunner
"..with mobs on their heals.." should be read "mobs on their heels".
If this change goes through I'm sure many of the pro-posture change timer people will change their tune. Even the melees.
For sure a posture change timer would probably make the melee's a lot happier in PvP. But I have a feeling once cloning trips become a lot more common, they'll be wishing their carbine buddy could keep the adds at bay.
novamarine, that post wasnt reallybacking up the posture change nerf, it was only about AS2. I posted that just because people were still wondering about how actionshot2 was overpowered and how it was possible to solo multiple red cons with it.
I'm not sure how I personally feel about the nerf overall, but I do know they needed to do something about the skills if their vision of people not soloing red cons is going to happen. I can still solo white cons easily without any kind ofposture changeor knockdown moves, and I know people who are in the early novice should too cause I never used those when I was exping until I was a few boxes into carbineer. Dunno about people in between though, no personal experience of that. White con npcs with guns are going to hurt though...