Carbineer Archive

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Chiro wrote:

Hmm...

Working Specials: 14

Broken Specials: 0

How often do you PvP as a carbineer?

Good work on the stats by the way.

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Carbineer isn't broken, its simply inadequate to the task of front line competition in the 90% Composite Universe.

Message Edited by Bennyboy4308 on 09-24-2004 04:46 PM

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Bennyboy4308 wrote:

/sigh, just because you don't use a special in PvP doesn't mean others don't use them. Maybe you find wildshot redundant when you have fullautoarea, but the stun from wildshot is more reliable so some people open up with it. Maybe legshot2-3 isn't normally used, but sometimes people won't wear leggings.

In fact, if you go through the list you can find a use for every special in PvP, besides of course pre-reqs like legshot1 and scattershot1.

Message Edited by Bennyboy4308 on 09-24-2004 04:46 PM

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You mention ScatterShot1, which doesn't have a Damage Modifier done yet....I need to get that fixed because a dabbler might find the info useful. A person looking to conserve Skill Points may find ScatterShot1 to be better for them than using 7 more Skill Points to get ScatterShot2.

Not that I encourage dabbling in Carbineer, but we should have as complete of information as possible

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TAfirehawk wrote:

Specials Data Table

Special Reload Modifier Damage Modifier HAM Modifier

FullAutoSingle2 1.7 5.5 1.6 / 2.0 / 0.5
BurstShot1 2.0 6.0 1.4 / 1.1 / 0.5
BurstShot2 2.5 6.0 1.6 / 1.1 / 0.5
ScatterShot1 2.0 - 1.4 / 1.1 / 0.5
Scattershot2 2.5 7.5 1.6 / 1.1 / 0.5
WildShot1 2.0 3.5 1.4 / 1.1 / 0.5
WildShot2 2.5 4.5 1.6 / 1.1 / 0.5
CripplingShot 2.5 7.5 0.8 / 1.8 / 0.8
FullAutoArea1 2.0 3.5 1.4 / 2.0 / 0.5
FullAutoArea2 2.5 4.5 1.6 / 2.0 / 0.5
LegShot2 (Marksman) 1.5 3.0 0.5 / 1.3 / 1.2
Legshot3 1.5 3.0 0.5 / 1.3 / 1.2
ChargeShot1 2.3 3.0 0.7 / 1.1 / 0.7

ChargeShot2 3.0 3.7

ActionShot1 (Marksman) 1.6 1.5

ActionShot2 1.7 3.0

SuppressionFire2 2.8 3.7

Please note the Damage Modifier is defined as carbine X modifier = damage, where "carbine" is gotten from the Examine Window of the Carbine. Some other classes choose to report their numbers as weapon X 1.5 X modifier. To compare Carbine Specials to those, you must divide Carbine Damage Modifiers by 1.5 or multiply those other modifiers by 1.5.

This information was collected by novamarine and TAfirehawk and may not be used without permission.

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-01-2004 09:58 PM

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I am curious what intellectual property principal you are trying to invoke?

Since you are simply stipulating facts and not expression I fail to see how copyright applies.

You could claim trade secret, except you posted the information in a public forum on the internet.

Simply the fact that you collected the data does not actual confer to you any rights. Also it is difficult to see how in a discussion forum, where information is routinely copied, and quoted how you would have any expectation of control?

I am just curious, I have no real interest in the information, just find it curious that you seem to be trying to apply some principal of intellectual property to your post.

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Betatoxin wrote:

I am curious what intellectual property principal you are trying to invoke?

Since you are simply stipulating facts and not expression I fail to see how copyright applies.

You could claim trade secret, except you posted the information in a public forum on the internet.

Simply the fact that you collected the data does not actual confer to you any rights. Also it is difficult to see how in a discussion forum, where information is routinely copied, and quoted how you would have any expectation of control?

I am just curious, I have no real interest in the information, just find it curious that you seem to be trying to apply some principal of intellectual property to your post.

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ROFLMAO

It is a game dude....but Nova did 99% of the testing and we both feel our effect should be acknowledged....

I see what he means, its now the fact that you gave credit where credit is due, but the line of "not to be used without permission". That line just doesn't make sence, especially since if anyone has a copyright, it would be SOE.

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Elapidae wrote:
I see what he means, its now the fact that you gave credit where credit is due, but the line of "not to be used without permission". That line just doesn't make sence, especially since if anyone has a copyright, it would be SOE.

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Seems we have some people that don't understand this is a GAME.....personally I got a /chuckle out of it when Nova added that so I kept it.

And SOE can NOT copyright the work that Nova and I did.....and neither can we.

Nova and I simply ask that the data table of Specials not be used without some acknowledgement or authorization. Where do we claim to have a PATENT or COPYRIGHT on this? Nowhere.....

Is this all we can discuss on the Carbineer Specials? GEEEEZZZZZZZZZ

lol lighten up folks

the TK Troll...unofficially...

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TAfirehawk wrote:

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Betatoxin wrote:

I am curious what intellectual property principal you are trying to invoke?

Since you are simply stipulating facts and not expression I fail to see how copyright applies.

You could claim trade secret, except you posted the information in a public forum on the internet.

Simply the fact that you collected the data does not actual confer to you any rights. Also it is difficult to see how in a discussion forum, where information is routinely copied, and quoted how you would have any expectation of control?

I am just curious, I have no real interest in the information, just find it curious that you seem to be trying to apply some principal of intellectual property to your post.

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ROFLMAO

It is a game dude....but Nova did 99% of the testing and we both feel our effect should be acknowledged....

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No problem then say that. Do not imply that you have ownership of the data or that specific authorization is required. We have enough legal burden as it is and the boards are a collaborative environment, if a sometimes racous one.

I have absolutely no problem saying that you and Novamarine were the ones that took the considerably effort to collect the data, and present it and wish to be acknowledged. That is entirely fair and reasonable. However that should be stated as the request.

In fact the reason I noted this information in the first place was because the Rifleman forum lacked such a concise collection of specials data and wanted to ask if any such collection existed using carbine as the standard to meet, such was the quality of the data.

Rifleman have some of the data, but not collected into the format that is presented here.

If you want your names to appear with the data as the original collectors, no problem, then request that. Do not hide behind heavy speak about how those of us that also contribute considerably to these boards, and the game must seek your permission to use data that is in the game.

Consider that this supposed restriction will last long beyond you being here. What if you or novamarine are not available to give permission? Does this information become locked up for some indeterminate time? 75 years after your death perhaps? In this case not likely since sony almost certainly owns copyright on what we post here through some subtle legal speak in the contract we signed. Good thing too, makes quoting others posts a lot simpler legally speaking. Which begs the question what leg there is to stand on here to make such a claim of requiring permission.

As to this being a game, that is a curious response when it is you that attempts to place a legal restrictions on the use of a small table of data from that game. You and Novamarine pulled the legal speak into this, not me, I only pointed it out.

Do not mistake my distaste for the "restrictions" to imply that I do not greatly appreciate the effort taken to collect the above data. Without such sources it substantially more difficult to identify to the developers where the flaws exist in the game design or implementation. Efforts like this by correspondents and players is absolutely required in order to help a game as complex as SWG move forward. I have no doubt that SWG is better today because of the efforts of people like yourself, Novamarine and others.

Here is what you say, and I quote

"This information was collected by novamarine and TAfirehawk and may not be used without permission."

That does not say attribution, it says without permission.

I cannot read your mind, only what you write. That you have now clarified your position I request that you change the original post to reflect the clarification of what you really want.

I have already ammended my rifleman post to give accurate attribution, along with a link to the original source of the information. This reflects the clarification in this post that you are requesting that your names accompany the data, and not that permission is required to use the data. Is this correct?