Carbineer Archive

Correct. Carbineers get ranged damage mitigation.

The melee classes get melee damage mitigation giving ranged and melee characters BOTH.

Time will tell how useful this is in PvE. Currently all creatures have essentially no damage range. I am a creature handler and scoutso I can see thatinfo. Often a creature will be 240-250 or 480-490.I am sure wouldwould agreechanging that to 240-244 and 480-484 is meaningless. However, the Devs have stated that low end mobs will continue to have tight ranges while high-end mobs will have wide ranges.Time will tell how usefull this skillis in PvE.

It is going to have a huge impact on PvP immediately. It is going to slow down the pace quite a bit making bleeds and DOT more powerful. Melee characters may become much more viable since they will have longer to get into melee range. I think we will see theheavy weapons like flame throwers and lightning cannons become far more useful in PvP because of their huge minimum damages.

Which branch of skills will ours be going in? Working my way slowly through Carbines now, maybe I should start up one line now.

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Rhae wrote:
Which branch of skills will ours be going in? Working my way slowly through Carbines now, maybe I should start up one line now.

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It is in the Counterinsurgency line.

im sorry to say this is the worst thing that i could have conceived to happen to this class all our other wepons have better min dmg but crappy speed and max pistols atm are all in all 2-3 times better than carbines with the exception of lasers and krayt enhanced wepons. We need more speed mods i think with this patch 70 with a 3.6 wepon or slower is just note enough with the crazy ham cost we have

We only get ranged mitigation right?

I think the Elite Carbine looks like it could be a serious option in PvP now (if it wasnt before).

On my server it seems to have an average uncliced speed advantage of about 0.6 over a DXR6, as well as a slight damage advantage. As a previous poster mentioned, weapon speed will now be quite crucial....fast consistent damage is gonna be key, and this probably wont suit Carbineers, unless the HAM costs are going to be adjusted accordingly. As a Doctor, Im not all that concerned, but the profession as a whole should be.

Also, Many people I know are also going for special Acid protection in their armor, making energy not too bad of a damage type to have.

also, the e-11 carbine is pretty good for damage range as well, at least on my server. its also slightly faster than the Elite, and has less HAM costs...ill look into that when I log back on. I will be doing tests on a few friends of mine to determine how hard this actually hits.

hate to say this but as a carbineer damage mitigation only means one thing:

IT COSTS 10-60% MORE HAM TO DO THE SAME DAMAGE IN PVP!

Hmm. Is the calculation done before or after powerup mods to minimum damage? Sounds to me like min damage powerups just got a huge boost.

thanks for the info nova, ur grea!

From my own personal PvP testing...Damage Mitigation is AWESOME. With counterattack and this thing, only half the shots hit me, and of the ones that do, the damage is reduced to nearly nothing. I'm a doctor/carbineer and the only class I fear in PvP now is TKA. My first pvp fight with this, I had up to 3 people on me, and I had enough time to heal myself. But then a TKA ran up to me and kicked me in the head. It was all over. Damage mitigation seriously helps us deal with the BH's. Additionally, if I'm buffed, I don't have to fear using my AoE specials. Even if I aggro everything, I will live long enough to inflict serious damage.

Folks are talking about the Laser carbine not being as valuable in PVP now , because of the mitigation issue. However, comparing the DXR6 and other Carbines straight up to the laser is not accurate because of the Armor Piercing factor. I believe the Laser Carbine is a medium armor piercing, while the other carbines are light to no armor piercing.

While I don't fully understand the new combat system and the speed vs.AP combat calculations, I do think the Medium Armor piercing is significant enough to still make the Laser Carbine a weapon of consideration.

Can someone help with the Carbine comparisons in light of these new Mitigation skills?

Well, let's do a case study on my laser and elite, Fluid.

Laser, speed sliced (all three went speed, and it's a bit old oh well, speed vs. mitigated damage comes out a wash if you do the math, with speed perhaps edging out a tad). 47-274, 3.3 speed.
Elite, damage sliced. 130-225, 3.7
Both are master-made weapons on Kauri. The laser's a bit old, but was made following a round of pretty good link-steel aluminum. I just wish I had that laser with a damage slice, so the speeds would be more comparable, so the relative damages were more relevant to compare. But DPS will just have to do.

Now, let's just go ahead and do the AR calculation first off, due to the associative nature of multiplication, it would carry through and be the same no matter when we applied it. We'll assume an armored target, but do calcs for unarmored, as well.

Laser vs. unarmored, unmitigated (damage * 1.25 *1.25): 73-428, 3.3. This is 75.9 dps, using (min+max)/(2*speed).
Elite vs. unarmored, unmitigated (damage *1.25): 163-281, 3.7. This is 60 dps.
Laser vs. AR1, unmitigated (damage *1.25): 59-343, 3.3. This is 60.9 dps.
Elite vs. AR1, unmitigated: 130-225, 3.7. This is 48 dps.

Ok, so we've established that in the old damage system, as well as against poorly skilled ranged or melee opponents now, the lack of mitigation proves lasers to be good weapons. Their high variance doesn't actively hurt them, and the AR2 punches through and provides some extra damage. Now let's look at mitigation 1, which reduces the damage range by 20%. We use the same damage values, and reduce them according to the mitigation.

Laser vs. unarmored, mitigation 1: 73-357, 3.3. This is 65.2 dps. Took a 10dps nose dive.
Elite vs. unarmored, mitigation 1: 163-257, 3.7. This is 56.8 dps -- it's gaining ground vs. a laser.
Laser vs. AR1, mitigation 1: 59-286, 3.3. This is 52.3 dps.
Elite vs. AR1, mitigation 1: 130-206, 3.7. This is 45.4 dps -- it only lost 2.5 dps!

Ok, so now, against novice ranged weapon users, we still find the laser to be a little more effective, though it's lead is shrinking fast. The elite is proving to be pretty resistant to low mitigation, with it not budging much.

Laser vs. unarmored, mitigation 2: 73-286, 3.3. This is 54.4 dps.
Elite vs. unarmored, mitigation 2: 163-234, 3.7. This is 53.6 dps.
Laser vs AR1, mitigation 2: 59-229, 3.3. This is 43.6 dps.
Elite vs. AR1, mitigation 2: 130-187, 3.7. This is 42.8 dps.

By the time the target gains two defensive skill boxes in his or her ranged profession of choice, the two are coming out pretty squarely even, armored and unarmored.

Laser vs. unarmored, mitigation 3: 73-215, 3.3. A mighty fall from 73-428, huh? This is 43.63 dps.
Elite vs. unarmored, mitigation 3: 163-211, 3.7. This is 50.5 dps.
Laser vs. AR1, mitigation 3: 59-172, 3.3. This is 35 dps. (Ouch!)
Elite vs. AR1, mitigation 3: 130-168, 3.7. This is 40.3 dps.

Against a master, the laser's extra armor punching is far outweighed by the low-range weapon's resistance to mitigation. Maybe in a day or two, I'll revisit this to expand on this case study in order to find the effects of a minimum damage powerup. I expect that it will tilt the numbers even farther in the elite's favor.