Carbineer Archive

Ron. . . unless you weren't replying to me, but to Solid. In which case, er, I agree.

We need new forum features. Like Edit.

Aden,

I agree with you completly. I started off wanting to be a bounty hunter, and took carbineer to boost BH carbine. I then switched to being a carbineer using BH carbine to boost my carbineer skills. I have now dropped BH all together and am master carbineer, working on master doctor.

Keep bounty hunters strong, give them all their speed and accuracy mods, just make them not stackable with pistoleer/carbineer.

Solth

Solid, okay, in that light I can see your complaint from the perspective of a Bounty Hunter. In other words, you feel like you are LOSING all of the Marksman weapons instead of GAINING a Bounty Hunter Carbine. That makes more sense to me now. You see a rapidly deminishing aresenal and you don't like it. Can't blame you there.

I would ask, then, what other solution you would recommend? Something HAS to be done about these stacked skills. Hybriding has gotten completely out of hand, and it's becoming pointless to get ANYTHING except Pistol and Bounty Hunter's Pistol and LLC trees. I initially didn't want to separate the Bounty Hunter from the other weapons but I honestly can't come up with a better solution. If/When the Devs DO address this issue, they are going to come up with some sort of solution. As one Rifleman to another. . . I think we both know that we NEED to make SUGGESTIONS or else, well, Bounty Hunters will be T-21'ed.

How about this? In exchange for this weaponry trade-off I would be willing to give the Scatter Pistol a boost in stats, be it in speed, HAM cost, damage. I'd also say that the Bouny Hunter Carbine should be a non-standard damage type (Acid, Blast, Cold, Heat or Stun for example) and should have an AP2 rating. In fact, if they made it cold, it would be the only AP2/Cold weapon in the game that I know of.

I would be totally in favor of making those guns very efficient to make up for the lack of variety. Most Pistol users stick to the FWG5 or the DX2 anyhow, and the only really usable Carbines are the DX6 and the Laser. Under this sytem you would lose out on the Heat (FWG5/EE3) and Acid (DX2/DX6) damage, but you would still have three very powerful weapons to choose from as well as a replacement "unique" damage type, which is still doing better than most other classes.

Yeah, it's a compromise, I suppose. But balance is about compromise. And like I said, on the other hand, if you have an alternate way to keep people from Hybrid-Stacking these Skill mods that would be BETTER for Bounty Hunter and still solve the problem, I'm all ears. I'll even take the propostion back to the original threads and see what other responses it gets. But we need to suggest SOMETHING or else we are at the mercy of the Devs to craft a new solution from scratch. Besides, problems posted WITH solutions get a lot more Dev attention than problems WITHOUT.

Good idea.

I must give you props, not only do you present your thoughts clearly (got to love punctuation!), you go on to explainthe reasons behind your views. I'd suggest PMing a linkof your thread to Holo.

For my own two credits, I am curious if the fix that the devs (Holo?) have recently brought up is aimed at "fixing" (in their typical way of curbing one group only to cripple another) this exact situation. If I remember correctly, they discused the idea of changing the delays on weapons. Pistol to 0.5, Carbine to 2, and Rifle to 3 seconds; or something like that. If anything, this would seem to make the pistol/BH pistols users even more powerful (doubly so?) while ganking the pure Carbineers even more than they are already. The exact reasons stated to explain this madness elude me at the moment, but I believe they had something to do with the concern of carbines firing just as fast as pistols (that is, BH dabbling).

Anyway, I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Esparta.

Fico Feafip

Master Doctor/Carbineer of Scylla

Well I could agree to what you just said, but as you we have been saying, EVERYONE wants to combine BH skills with another combat profession. Now if the DEVs could make the other professions a bit better, or more appealing, perhaps? Maybe add in some new specials, new guns, and fix carbines? I think it might work. They could add in new specials, new guns, maybe nerf eyeshot or something.. Im not sure, but if anyone had any suggestions have how to make the other professions more appealing to others so they forget about all going BH, then I think we want to hear it. Personally, some people who go BH for the roleplaying, for the fun, and because they get a nice variety of weapon use, I repsect them. But everywhere I go is always see tons of people holding a scatter pistol or LLC...

I'm a Bounty Hunter/Carbineer. I only use carbineer to supplement my BH skills. If they would somehow outlaw cross class stacking, then I'd most likely drop carbineer and go for Master BH with some medic or CH. As it stands now, carbineer is probably one of the worst dev maligned classes in SWG. It'd definetely the most neglected of the numerous combat classes.Most skills are broken, only Action Shot 2 and Crippling Shot are any good, and counterattack is completely broken.

If you're going to nerf cross class stacking, then fix carbineer FIRST. But I doubt that will ever happen ...

EXCELLENT! this is the way it should be...

Sorry, but thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

I am a BH-Carbineer-Avenger...I really dont want to have to use a specific gun for my XP. That would completely ruin the Bounty Hunter aspect. We are supposed to be proficient with ALL guns. Giving us one would screw us over more than we are.

well the only thing the other XP is for, is to get u bounties different modifiers.....

get it?

The real fix for this problem is not to give bounty hunters their own "special" weapons, thus removing most of the other weapons, but it is to make the skill mods of the bounty hunters only apply to bounty hunters.

An example for this is rename the BH skill mods something like BH carbine accuracy. This would be coupled with a different coding so they would not stack with the regular skill mods of the carbineer/pistoleers.

What you are proposing is a quick fix that is almost like nerfing the BH's, because of the the limits that will be imposed on their weapon choices.

The way the game is now you have to be a bounty hunter, or you basically suck at PvP, which is ridiculous. There is no squad concept in this game. Two Bounty Hunters will always be better than one BH and one support fighter. 4 bh's will be better than 2 bh's and two support fighters, etc...........

I suppose 1 squad leader and 19 bh's might have an advantage over 20 bh's, but that's about the only situation where it applies.

Well, dabbling is atricky problem because it involvesthe speed equation, which I'm sure is being looked at right now, because of the theinbalance that results from so many professionsattacking at the 1.0 limit,due to the way they have the speed bonuses set up, plus the benefits of slicing. Anyway...

One way to not reward dabbling so much,would be to change the skill boxes in the advanced professions, to explicitly define speed modsthat do not add to each other, but only to whatever speed that has been earned in theNoviceprofession... read that again.

So, once you get into the advanced professions, you wouldn't get any more mods like Carbine Speed +5. Instead, at novice carbineer, youwould get CarbineSpeed Bonus = 10 (let's call this CSB), intermediate tactics CSB=20, advanced tactics CSB=30, expert tactics CSB=35, master tactics CSB=40, Master carbineer CSB=50. Again, these mods would not add to each other, or to mods in any other advanced profession, but only to the speed already earned in novice marksman. So therewould be no speed benefit available bydabbling in both BH and carbineer. A dabbler could haveCSBs fromboth professions, but they don't add, so onlythe highest CSB they have earnedwould be effective.

Adding things up would yield the following (assuming a novice marksman with +25 speed from carbine specialist):

Skill level ...CSB ... resultingcarbinespeed... firing time with a 4.0sec weapon

Master carbineer ... 50 ... 75 ... 1.0s

master tactics ... 40 ... 65 ... 1.4s

expert tactics ... 35 ... 60 ... 1.6s

advanced tactics ... 30 ...55 ... 1.8s

intermediate tactics ...20 ... 45 ... 2.2s

novice carbineer ... 10 ... 35 ... 2.6s

carbine specialist ... (0) ... 25 ... 3s

Sorry for the makeshift table

Also, there is another+5 speed available at master marskman, required for BH,andavailable to anyone that wants tospend the points on it.

Please keep in mind thatmany of these numbers are made up, and areonly to highlight a system that doesn't result inoverpowered players withcrazy high speed modifiers.

OK, I'm not here to flame, I'm here to pass a valid comment. Carbineers are badly broken at the moment, you know it, I know it...it gets mentioned on a regular basis. The bounty hunter carbine line is also in pretty poor shape.

This is for the same reason. People crying nerf on PvP issues like this. The original idea posted here is a fair one to both sides but its also complicated, possibly too complex to be considered.

That leaves 2 options...scream nerf on other professions and watch the system devolve into nothing more than turn-based Quake or keep pushing for your profession too be fixed. Once its fixed, see how you stand, then look at balance.

Balancing for PvP is immasculating the PvE game and as a recent survey shows, most people, like myself,prefer PvE over PvP.

Be patient, remain vocal, you guys deserve it. But don't get your satisfaction at the expense of another profession.