Carbineer Archive
Thread: Why are Dev's ignoring carbineers?
Leomi wrote:
Are you Master BH? Probably not, but if you are congrats. My problem with BH's is that there's too many of them.
Well, there is a small reason to do Master Carbineer. There is no reason to get Master BH. Especially since the Investigation Tree takes an average player 300 hours to complete...Combat XP doesn't take that long, especially if you kill larger animals with a buddy. And I use Carbine/Pistol/LLC in duels. Im not a sole BH Carbine guy, but I decided to use Carbine as my main weapon, so I went Carbineer as well. Is thatsin?
Of course combat xp doesn't take that long if you do BH because you only require it for one box (Novice which is instantly better than many other profession just by getting there). Try doing 4 levels for combat xp in any of the marksman line and you'll be frustrated as well. To get anything higher than 300 combat xp you'd have to kill rancors on dathomir or just really hard creatures. I'd like to see you and your buddy do that with a carbine. I had to use a petandat least 1 or 2 morepeople and in between I spend about 5-10 minutes healing my pet. The way you sound I don't even think that you did the combat xp portion of the carbineer line all the way up.
You said "There is no reason to get Master BH". Thank you , you just justified my argument. That is the problem, the benefits are given to you early on so there is no incentive to go any farther. You continuosly complain about how BH's shouldn't be nerfed any more because you have lived in the luxury or having too much power at very little cost. I agree that BH's do deserve the power, but a lot of the specialty shots and bonuses should be given at the master level.
Heh.. you call yourself a BH. Having carbineer, CH and BH doesn't allow you to be master at any profession. You took the easy way out and try to exploit an unfair advantage by getting the right skill under BH. Stop trying to correct me because the more you talk the more you sound like an idiot.
If you read my argument correctly, I'm not arguing that combat xp is harder than investigation. Its not. that is by far the hardest tree to accomplish. I was just arguing the fact that people don't take up investigation because the Pistol, Carbine, and LLC are EASY to get and gives you more power than any elite marksman profession. By the time I'm done with 1-1-1-0 carbineer, for the same amount of xp you'd be at level 2 almost 3 BH carbine. That is my problem. Same with Pistol and LLC. Taking investigation out of the picture, like what everyone seems to do, eliminates any requirements of combat xp. Even if I consider your argument that combat XP is free, how do you justify mastery of one weapon with just one ladder to climb with MUCH LESS weapons xpthan any other elite marksman tree. My point it 1/8 the weapons xp and BH pistol is better than pistoleer, BH carbine is comparable to master carbineer, and LLCjust ridiculous ini PvP. They just walk up to you and you don't even have time to react. The kind of damage it does to things (I've seen 16k damage to a lair) without even being master. I'd lilke you to grind carbineer/pistoleer/riflesman and compare that to how long it is to get BH pistol/carbineer/llc and compare the differences. Powerful specials and accuracy and speed mods should be greatly rewarded once you get the Master BH status. I'm not blaming BH's for this, although I hate the players who play them, but this is the developers/designers fault of compensating BH's because of their title. They didn't analyze the difficulty because they assume that everyone will go for master.
atimes wrote:
This is LONG but worth it (at least to me)
To the original poster
Yes it would seem we are ignored. Professions that complain get fixes. Besides Riflemen are more popular than carbineers and pistoleers are more popular than riflemen they get more attention. Also Jageen88's work seems to help but SOJ has done a ton of work also and we are still ignored. But all 3 ranged classes have issues. Hopefully now that they have a correspondant's board SOJ can relate our issues to the devs. Make no mistake though the devs have dropped the ball when coming to profession fixes. Trust me ALL professions need work and ALL of them are broken. All 33 of them have bugs some more than others. I've also heard through the grapevine that the profession the devs wish to focus on next is Droid Engineers so I'm not sure what that means to us.
To address where this thread has gone to.
Combat XP is basically "free". Before you flame read on. If you see the xp requirements and look at the other boxes it adds up nicely. Take the first box based on combat xp. It requires 60K combat xp. Well the first 3 boxes of carbineer take 175K weapons xp coupled with the 125K for novice and the 91K from Carbine I-IV from marksman gives you 741K weapons xp which is at least 74K combat xp so there you go. The second box takes 85 and the tier 2 boxes require 250K weapon xp. That's 750K weapon xp for the tier 2 boxes and with the 9K left over from the first box gives you basically enough. So it evens out.
That being said a 0-4-4-4 Bounty Hunter has amased nearly as much combat xp as a 4-4-4-4 carbineer. Combat xp is a by product of your weapon xp grinding so as you grind out boxes in Carbineer the combat xp boxes follow along as a by product.
The problem with the bounty hunter issue is that the devs made it a combat class on it's own. It should be focused on skills exclusive to the bounty hunter trade (investigation, maybe some specific kinds of slicing)and not have ANYcombat related skills.
You wanna be a badass Bounty Hunter? Fine, take the bounty hunter skills AND master carbineer if you want to be able to hit anything with a carbine. Training as a Bounty hunter shouldnt' replace weapons training.
Um that would require more skill points, but i do see your point. The whole BH class seems to be based off of boba-fett's skills. Read tales of the bounty hunters....the BH's depicted there are not all bad-edit combat people, they are resourceful and patient...and not always just lighting people on fire or hitting them with lightining...even boba fett doesn't just blast people unless he has to. Maybe BH is more messed up than we are lol...Sorry to digress on the BH class.
Carbineer is being ignored because either there isn't enough of us or because the devs secretly want us all to be BH and Commandos...hehe 
actually people the DEVs are ignoring pretty much everybody that didn't get fixes. Or hopefully they are working on the missed ones this week but I won't hold my breath on that one.
Truthfully what they really need to do is re-balance all classes from basic up, then the Hybrids then the Elite.
BHs while the Jack of Trades, they shouldn't be the master of them all too.
Pistoleer should be best at close range and Pistols should be the weakest of the ranged attacks, should be the absolute best with pistols than anyone else. (?) Master should be able to Dual Pack (?)
Carbiner Mid-range assault weapons, while some maybe adjusted for better accuracy at closer range, MP5 for RL example, but a Master Carbiner should Fear being Close Range with a Master Pistoleer while the Master Pistoleer should Fear being Mid-Range with a Master Carbiner. Should be the absolute best with Carbines.
Riflemen, well I said my piece on their 30+ page thread on what's wrong with Riflemen, just to let you know though a Rifleman can do more mind damage to themselves using Mindblowthan anyone or thing can do to them. Should be the absolute best with Rifles. Think Sniper.
Each of these Elite Classes should be able to use their weapon to defend themselves at point blank, of course the carbine, an assault weapon, should be designed with this in mind. ie. least damage to weapon for Carbine Battery (and most melee damage), and most Damage to Pistols when Pistol Whipping (least melee damage as well). After all most if not all Pistols arenot meant to be used as a melee weapon. Everyone (ranged weapon classes) should Fear being point blank with a Master Carbiner.
Well, any way that's how I envision these three classes. But I can't think of a full listing of appropriate abilities.
Carbineers don't get fixed for the same reason that DE's don't get fixed. There aren't enough of you, and thus you don't represent nearly as large of a funding base. It's the same reason that commando took so long to be fixed. There weren't any. So why DID commando get fixed? They were probably the single most broken class, and non-commandos started to recognize this and sympathize. Commandos gained a large following of other classes, thus they became a priority. The same thing is happening with DE's, because the problems with DE are becoming obvious to most people. Following DE's, I'd expect BE's to get loving after that, then maybe Smugglers. Carbineers, while broken, unfortunately fall low on the list of "sympathy", because Carbineers are broken in non-obvious ways. Only someone who actually playes a carbineer for an extended time will understand what the problem is with them.
2 further reasons that people don't see carbine as broken... 1) Carbine is probably the best branch of the initial marksman tree. Stunning legshot, good damage guns, and fullauto1. It APPEARS to be very good. 2) BH Carbine. A lot of people find themselves unable to distinguish between BH carbine and Carbineer carbine. One is broken, one is not.
And I'll just comment on this since it bothers me... If you're a BH, you have master marksman, and thus the marksman carbine line. You have fullauto1.... use it. It stuns too, oooohhhhh.
atimes wrote:
I was also against moving eyeshot but my reasons are this. I PvE I don't PvP. In PvE eyeshot isn't overpowered because in PvE all attacks hit an unhealable pool. This nerf is being done SOLELY to satisfy the whining PvP minority. Remember you don't hunt marks you don't know how tough they are and until you do hunt them don't expect me to give your counter arguments credence because they are based on ASSUMPTIONS. Eyeshot was needed for marks because of it's blind effect. If the replacement for eyeshot doesn't blind opponents then this nerf will do nothing but hurt non dabbling bounty hunters who aspire to master and will further cripple their ability to hunt already difficult marks.