Carbineer Archive
Thread: Test Results: What if the damage type isn't listed?
Sivol
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:02 pm
#14
Well lets just keep all the AP problems the same until the revamp... BROKEN. Could you image a rifleman with a T21 punching holes into your head with a working AP3? No thanks keep this **edit** broken until the combat revamp. We dont need one shot mind kills. Might be a good fix for pve, but we dont need the machinegunner rifleman with fixed AP in pvp lol. I do hope this gets fixed, but man not right now in the currenty system. It would be a nitemare in reguards to pvp.
Spank-A-Thon
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:15 am
#15
Let me get this straight....
For each Armour level, damage is reduced by 50% for each level of difference. For each level of AP, 25% additional damage is done if it exceeds the Armour rating.
So:
AP0 vs AR2 would result in 50% damage decrease and then another 50% decrease.
Damage of 1000 is reduced to 500 by the first AR level. 500 is then reduced by a further 250 by the second AR level leaving you with a damage of 250.
AP2 vs AR0 would result in 25% damage increase, followed by another 25% increase.
Damage of 1000 is increased to 1250 by the first AP level, and then to 1562.5 by the second AP level.
But if an armour is vulnerable to a certain type of damage, it has the same effect as armour with a rating of 0 being hit by an AP0 weapon. So if I hit something with AP1 that is vulnerable to energy, my Laser Carbine (AP2) will not get the expected 25% increase. Both piercing and rating are counted as 0.
So in certain circumstances, you will actually receive more damage if you are wearing armour than none at all. Allow me to explain.
Unarmoured players are classed as vulnerable to all - so the AP of the weapon is irrelevant; no bonus is applied.Ignoring PvP reduction and Damage mitigation, foods and so on.
Laser Carbine (AP2) vs Unarmoured Player (AR0 Vulnerable to all) using CrippleShot for 2500 Damage.
- 0% Damage increase or reduction
- Player is hitfor 2500 damage.
Laser Carbine (AP2) vs Armoured Player (AR1 Vulnerable to Energy) using CrippleShot for 2500 Damage.
- AP and AR both classed as 0
- 0% Damage increase or reduction.
- Player is hitfor 2500 damage.
Laser Carbine (AP2) vs Armoured Player (AR1 Energy Resists 10%) using CrippleShot for 2500 Damage.
- 25% Damage increase due to higher AP = 3125
- 10% Resists to Energy applied = 2812.5
- Player is hit for 2812.5 damage
I hope this explains the situation which to be frank, is a joke - this makes no sense at all but unfortunately is how it is!
- Ymo
Message Edited by Spank-A-Thon on 06-22-2004 05:21 PM
TAfirehawk
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:23 am
#16
You understand this correctly as it works.....not how it should be as we have all noted.
AndI will say that somebody running around in PvP with 10% Energy resist in your example deserves to get hit that hard...... 
EisMan_Buckeye
Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:32 pm
#17
Wait a minute...
My understanding was that AP2 vs AR0 was [1.5 x Damage], not [1.25 x (1.25 x Damage)]. Not a 25% increase and then another 25% increase, but a 50% increase. Likewise for all other increases and reductions. With that reasoning, AP0 would do no damage at all to AR2. Hmm, how could I have over looked this?
Can anyone (:looks for TA) confirm that it is DEFINATELY a 25% increase, then another 25% increase on top of that, and not just a 50% increase over all? If so, I need to fix the spread sheet, as the way it works in the spread sheet is based on one increase, not two compounded increases. All it really effects as far as the spread sheet goes is the laser carbine, as it's the only one with more than one "step" in armor calcs, and DPS should go up if in fact AP2 vs AR0 is [1.25 x 1.25 x Damage] rather than the current [1.5 x Damage].
MasterTexiria
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:01 pm
#18
I personally think that the way it is now is the way it shouldSTAY. This is just like in Planetside when yuo need to punch through armor you use AP bullets when you don't you use normal...makes sense to me.
Spank-A-Thon
Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:22 am
#19
EisMan_Buckeye wrote:
Wait a minute...
My understanding was that AP2 vs AR0 was [1.5 x Damage], not [1.25 x (1.25 x Damage)]. Not a 25% increase and then another 25% increase, but a 50% increase. Likewise for all other increases and reductions. With that reasoning, AP0 would do no damage at all to AR2. Hmm, how could I have over looked this?
Can anyone (:looks for TA) confirm that it is DEFINATELY a 25% increase, then another 25% increase on top of that, and not just a 50% increase over all? If so, I need to fix the spread sheet, as the way it works in the spread sheet is based on one increase, not two compounded increases. All it really effects as far as the spread sheet goes is the laser carbine, as it's the only one with more than one "step" in armor calcs, and DPS should go up if in fact AP2 vs AR0 is [1.25 x 1.25 x Damage] rather than the current [1.5 x Damage].
I got my information from the Advanced Armour Guide on the main SWG website. In there it states each level in an increase/decrease over the previous level.
It has to be this way, otherwise as you rightly say, you could get to a point where AP0 weapons have no effect upon AR2 and 3Armour.
- Ymo
TAfirehawk
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:47 am
#20
EisMan_Buckeye wrote:
Wait a minute...
My understanding was that AP2 vs AR0 was [1.5 x Damage], not [1.25 x (1.25 x Damage)]. Not a 25% increase and then another 25% increase, but a 50% increase. Likewise for all other increases and reductions. With that reasoning, AP0 would do no damage at all to AR2. Hmm, how could I have over looked this?
Can anyone (:looks for TA) confirm that it is DEFINATELY a 25% increase, then another 25% increase on top of that, and not just a 50% increase over all? If so, I need to fix the spread sheet, as the way it works in the spread sheet is based on one increase, not two compounded increases. All it really effects as far as the spread sheet goes is the laser carbine, as it's the only one with more than one "step" in armor calcs, and DPS should go up if in fact AP2 vs AR0 is [1.25 x 1.25 x Damage] rather than the current [1.5 x Damage].
The Devs have commented on this before, it is +25% and then +25% and then +25%, not +50% or +75% of the original. Same goes with reductions.
BUT, what the Devs say and what really happens in-game is often different 
AP3 vs AR0 hitting for standard 500 would become 500*1.25*1.25*1.25 = 977 damage instead of 500*1.75 = 875 damage.
AP0 vs AR3 hitting for standard 200 would become 200*0.50*0.50*0.50 = 25 damage instead of 200*(-1.50) = negative damage???
If we had an AP3 weapon it would be interesting to try this out
jfang
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:25 am
#21
TAfirehawk wrote:
AP0 vs AR3 hitting for standard 200 would become 200*0.50*0.50*0.50 = 25 damage instead of 200*(-1.50) = negative damage???
That would be a great way for a small group of pistoleers to ruin a krayt hunt, if it were true of course.
9,773 more posts to go...
TAfirehawk
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:26 am
#22
jfang wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
AP0 vs AR3 hitting for standard 200 would become 200*0.50*0.50*0.50 = 25 damage instead of 200*(-1.50) = negative damage???
That would be a great way for a small group of pistoleers to ruin a krayt hunt, if it were true of course.
9,773 more posts to go...
EisMan_Buckeye
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:17 am
#23
Thanks TA, looks like I have to fix the spread sheet. Guess I'm gonna have to come up with come crazy conditional formula to figure out how to compound those armor factors. Hard knowing what I'll do until I look at it, but your input is allways respected, so if you have any tips or ideas feel free to shoot some my way. Either that or I can just go back to your old way of manually entering in the value. (But I like the drop down box better, as it's much more user freindly lol).
jfang
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:27 am
#24
I don't know about how your spead sheet is set up, but can't you just change the formula to be 50% reduction for one difference, 25% for two differences, and 12.5% for three? (And 125%, 156.25%, and 195.3125% the other way?)
I guess I shouldn't say anything before I see how your spread sheet is set up though...
9,761 more to go...
EisMan_Buckeye
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:53 am
#25
It's not that simple. Currently, there is a drop down box that is linked to a cell, asigning that cell a number. Based on that number, I have a3 by2 array set up dependant upon that number. Then the array columns are totaled up, resluting in the final 2 numbers, one for the mod against AR0 and the other for AR1.
Yikes, I think I just figured it out, I might be able to set it up in a way that multiplies the columns rather than adding them. This might work out ok. I'm gonna go look at it right now, while the engineer juices are flowing.
EisMan_Buckeye
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:59 am
#26
Never mind lol. It was a MUCH easier fix than I thought it was going to be. It's fixed, look for it to be uploaded to the same URL by tonight.
Message Edited by EisMan_Buckeye on 06-23-2004 01:10 PM