Carbineer Archive

in this formula the last division is just put away ... (so with speed pup/slice u will have same result as without it) and also the crit slice increases dmg output by aprox. 2% so u can count it in also

Message Edited by CrowdController on 10-04-2005 06:00 AM

Message Edited by Rancor418 on 10-04-2005 08:44 AM

---

Rancor418 wrote:
My Nym Carbine

2.25 speed
355-709 Damage
313 DPS
82SAC
173 Elem Damage

Unsliced and no PU comes out to 8.59

Message Edited by Rancor418 on 10-04-2005 08:44 AM

---

---

Edit: One last thing...From my testing, I'm certain weapon speed matters, but I'm still undecided about modded speed. I know that doc buffs, pups, and speed slices work, I'm not sure about personal speed stats though. I think the safest thing is that, for these formulas, to just make sure that everyone uses base speed and basedps. I think most of us know that modded stats are really not useful when comparing weapons.

---

I am rather sure that weapon speed (and slices) matter, and that they are more valuable than critical slices. (I did some hunting, just me my droid for making a "group". I have two Elite Carbines, factory made, the only difference is the slice. With the speed sliced carbine i had to wait for the volley fire cooldown to end while on the critical slice the cooldown always was over before i killed the target. Since i was fighting for some time, the results should be reliable enough.

---

The dps/sac formula gives a rough estimate of the gun, but it makes fast guns look better than they are. Damage/sac is a good measure of efficiency, which is important, but it doesn't really tell you how much damage over time you can put out.

---

For me personally Damage/SAC is a halfway helpful value. Not including weapon speed, it doesn't consider regeneration of the action pool but the DPS/SAC is even worse as higher speed there gives a higher value despite actually resulting in less endurance on the battlefield.

Anyways, as already mentioned, different situations make different stats of a weapon more valuable. When grinding a lot and killing one beast after the other, SAC might be the "only" key value, as you never stop attacking. (On the other hand, when grinding, you're also well enough with ranged shot, so perhaps DPS is best choice for you... depending on how you fight.)

Against single huge targets, e.g. Nekrosis, the Damage/SAC seems most helpful, in duels it seems to be the same, as soon as you go into larger scale PvP, the priorities might change 3 times a minute and you probably won't have the time to switch your weapon at any time... so i dare to say, everybody has to make his own choice there, experiment around and see what works best for him, there's no "general receipe" which gun is best.

And, honestly... i like it that there is no simple "best" and finito. Cookie cutter setups are boring, it's much more interesting if you have to make choices. (So i also dare to say, double-capped weapons are kinda boring... *shrug*)

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

For example take my new Sliced Gorax Czerka w/o PU:

Speed: 2.02
Damage: 374-931
Base DPS: 322
SAC: 73

SPS = 73 / 2.02 = 36.14

DPS/SPS = 8.9
With a SAC PU DPS/SPS = 12.3

---

Nyms = (360 * 2 * 0.75 + 175) / 81 = 8.83

Even tho the nyms suffers from lack of elemental damage multiplier, it still pulls ahead and vastly out performs the czerka in combat situations where damage is in the lower range of the weapon, such as high defense in PvP, or high end PvE. Czerka is best for opponets with defense= just slightly above to below your accuracy, but for opponents with defense greater than your accuracy, the nyms is the best weapon for the job. (crap, no I gotta find me an uber Czerka for those situations... )

---

Some-Guy wrote:
Another thing to note is even if speed powerups work (and they do, boy do they ) since speed cancels out, they don't affect your damage per SAC ratio, so even tho you can reduce time between shots, in the long run you do the same damage per second with a speed PU, because you eventually run out of action and become action limited.

---

/agree ... sac pup all the way ... now crafts make nice 30/10 sac pups easier than b4

(ok mayB dmg pup but ... still gettin out of action with this ... sac pup makes u fire for much much longer so its most usefull imho)

Please refer to the Speed Test thread I have STICKY for testing of Mod Speed.

I stated the difference from long to short fights and what mattered in my original post. And the idea here is the best bang for you buck and Dam/SAC or DPS/SPS, however you want to write it, is a perfect initial assessment of a weapon....the other statis plainly listed on the weapon, DAMAGE, for short fights.

---

CrowdController wrote:

---

Some-Guy wrote:
Another thing to note is even if speed powerups work (and they do, boy do they ) since speed cancels out, they don't affect your damage per SAC ratio, so even tho you can reduce time between shots, in the long run you do the same damage per second with a speed PU, because you eventually run out of action and become action limited.

---

/agree ... sac pup all the way ... now crafts make nice 30/10 sac pups easier than b4

(ok mayB dmg pup but ... still gettin out of action with this ... sac pup makes u fire for much much longer so its most usefull imho)

---

There is a reason the Speed cancels out....over a long fight it is all about the total amount of damage you can output over the course of a total amount of action drain.

Just firing longer with a SAC PU doesn't make it better if the total damage output is lower with it once the action is drained.

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

Please refer to the Speed Test thread I have STICKY for testing of Mod Speed.

I stated the difference from long to short fights and what mattered in my original post. And the idea here is the best bang for you buck and Dam/SAC or DPS/SPS, however you want to write it, is a perfect initial assessment of a weapon....the other statis plainly listed on the weapon, DAMAGE, for short fights.

It seems everybody wants to pick apart the idea of this 'measure'with specific scenarios, well of course it doesn't work for every person in every fight in every conceivable situation, but it sure as hell gives a better representation of a weapon's effectiveness than anything else I have ever seen on the Forums or In-Game. Unless I am fighting just stupid, easy stuff, Action Drain is the main issue in Combat, even ahead of Health.

Bottom line is most people will find this 'measure' useful to get them the best weapon and if they are fighting under conditions that this 'measure' doesn't work.....well then they are already smart enough to know the value of their weapon and have no need for this in the first place.

---

---

Kalheka wrote:
Ok I think I'm being dense here. What does this final calculation (sps/dps)represent? I don't understand what the final number represents. I understand the formula you've presented fine. Sac per second = sac / speed, and your final number = base dps / sps. What I don't understand is what the final number represents, all I see is a numeric value that doesn't have a definition.

---