Carbineer Archive

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SamousNemo wrote:

Aha, here's a guy I was looking for...

So what is it about MBH/ Carb 0404/ Pist 0041/ med that you like so much? I've seen similiar templates recently and after some research I've narrowed it down to a few options. I'd really like to have nov medic like your temp, and I've heard cripple shot is a must, but I'm really divided as to what to do with my remaining 28 SP (So far MBH/ Carb 0300/ Pist 0040/ NM). I get the speed and accuracy from BH along with the master title for my ego. I get crippleshot and nice accuracy with the carbines which is good for PvP and PvE. Not too mention I have an area KD (charge2) which has more than once taken down a few npc's AND players. I have fullauto2 which lets me area attack but more importantly area apply states. I have decent speed (but not capped) which either a power up or speed slice would cure on any slow carbine although I really dont need it that bad and go for damage instead. I have the state defenses of pistol and a little extra speed as well as a point blank KD (for emergencies). Really, pistols is pretty sad unless its dabbled for defenses and eyeshot is really the biggest reason I need it as MIND damage is king in PvP. With medic 1/0/0/0 I can still use stimB's and get in a slightly better than novice heal when I'm taking a beating. I cannot emphasize the importance that healing can play if you dont have a friend to back you up.

As of right now I have +155 carb accuracy, which I think is pretty good as is, and plus considering SB isn't affected by accuracy and most Jedi don't have much in the lines of Ranged Defense (who wastes points on raw ranged defense when you have 85% blocking anyhow?), I don't really see the point in getting any more. So basically what I'm asking here is why do you spend so much SP on accuracy mods? Or is it the specials in the trees that attracted you? If that's the case, what do I gain here that I don't get in MBH (aside from cone attacks and cripple, which I intend on getting anyhow)? Its the specials that initially attracted me. BH specials dont have a decent high damage attack that matches crippleshot very well. Not too mention that sometimes the Jedi aren't alone and that accuracy can come in real handy when trying to KD a Jedi coat tail dragger. The 85% block is pretty much a done deal although if you can KD/dizzy them beforehand they can't block shots (although they can heal themselves). General PvP is also a big consideration as the higher your accuracy the better chance you can hit a stacker. Then again, carbines is just kewl and its a shame it got the shaft so badly.

My second question is in regards to the original thread title, is Scatter 2 really worth it? I plan on getting a krayt carb with an imp stock anyhow, so I'm going to max out on my specials just with +85 speed, so I don't need any of the mods from the line. But you yourself seem to think scatter 2 is valuable, but you didn't pick it up for your MBH template. I've also noticed back in my *shutter* Fencer/BH days that it was better to work with scatter instead of a 3/2/1 attack. I heard it has something to do with Jedi needing more force to heal all three pools, but am not positive. I didn't pick it up because I ran out of points to spend and you really need a MIND attack for general PVP. So the points went to pistols. As I posted above, scatter has its uses and technically this is the only MIND attack that carbineers get. Albiet, I wouldn't gamble the farm on it. It does do 3 light damage attacks across all three pools. This causes the PSG to absorb a larger total % of damage as opposed to a single large hit. For the longest time there was an armor hole where fencer scatterhit (not sure about carbines) would bypass armor and do alot of damage. They fixed that a while back so scatterhit is mainly used to destroy PSG's and build up battlefatigue. Scattershot made do a bit more total damage to an unarmored opponent like a Jedi but because its scattered over the HAM its not really helping that much. If you're getting through he defenses (you have to master the lightsaber boxes to get the full 85% otherwise it can only get to 60something%) then legshot or crippleshot would be a much better attack to use.

Do the moderate defenses in carbineer actually help? I was thinking of getting at least 0020 for the +15 KD and+25 intim def, would that really make that much of a difference? And what about counterattack? I was hoping that +80 would actually mean something against a Jedi, but am not really sure. Would these mods actually help at all, or would it just be better to put them into accuracy? Judiging from your template you seem to think so, but why? Moderate defense do help against lower end Jedi and normal PvP'ers but its not something that will let you stand still and take abuse. My template is dabbling a bit on the defensive side but is more for offense than anything else. Like I said, if MIND damage wasn't an issue so much I'd drop pistols. Geo pistols are waaay overrated (I carry a few 6%stun 1500 condition psg's which removes half the damage before it has to contend with my stun armor) and the DE-10 does as much damage as a well made Elite but for 50x the price. The key there again is the damage to the MIND it can do. Counterattack isn't working like it should although it DOES stop shots from hitting you. Its basically the same thing as block but doesn't let you get the free return shot like its supposed to. Still any damage you aren't taking is a good thing. Yes I have counterattacked Jedi attacks. Lightsabers go through armor but not defenses. I honestly wish that we could get better defense vs. intimidate. Its such a major advantage that melee have over us and your effectiveness plumets the second it lands on you.

The template I'm looking at right now is MBH/ Carb 3440/ Pist 0040/ NM. Would give me access to +180 carb acc, cripple shot, scatter 2, FKD &sprayshot (those two give all the states I need), +40 Dizzy, +65 KD, +20 Pos Down, and +80 counterattack. Any feedback? Wasted mods? Insufficient mods? The template is good although you're missing out on the area KD. Watching faction npc's, Janta, or groups of enemy players fish flop at the same time is pretty funny. At the moment having a Master Bounty Hunter title is more for ego than anything else although sprayshot is kinda nice. You can drop it and the LLC tree (which is great for lairs but not much else) and use the points to add more defense, medic, or master carbineer. A little extra pistol dodge might come in handy or you can pick up a little more melee defense from pistols.

I know that's an assload of questions, but I tried to highlight the most important issues. Do you, or anyone else, have any insight to offer? Not really. I try to refrain from talking some much about bounty hunter issues on the carbineer forums but since the two stack very nicely with each other its hard not too. I almost want to believe the dev's had intended us to do so by the crappy mods that master carbineer gets by itself. If they move the mods completely from one to the other they would be complete professions IMO.

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Madhi wrote:

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TAfirehawk wrote:

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Feomatar wrote:

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Madhi wrote:
i never use crippleshot, might be cuz i don't understand it entirely, but rarely does it outdamage full auto single 2.
anyone knows if i'm doing something wrong (don't ask what i just spam the damn button)

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You're right, cripplingshot is only usefull when you are speedcapped. When you aren't speedcapped (a normal master carbineer without any attachments isn't), fullautosingle2 will be allways more effective... it has more DPS and sticks blind/stun/dizzy too.

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Actually LegShot3 is a quicker Time To Kill when not Speed Capped

Overall DPS is higher for FAS2 but the 3/2/1 distribution makes it a slower kill special.

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Nope that's not what I meant. What I meant was when I shoot 20 times with cripple shot and after that 20 times with full auto single 2, the fas2 does more damage )so I'm not taking speed in account, pure damage per shot). Is this how it's supposed to be, I use a laser btw.

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Ignoring Speed and what Pool is hit gives a very false impression on what shot kills faster solo.

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Brainplay wrote:

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SamousNemo wrote:

Aha, here's a guy I was looking for...

So what is it about MBH/ Carb 0404/ Pist 0041/ med that you like so much? I've seen similiar templates recently and after some research I've narrowed it down to a few options. I'd really like to have nov medic like your temp, and I've heard cripple shot is a must, but I'm really divided as to what to do with my remaining 28 SP (So far MBH/ Carb 0300/ Pist 0040/ NM). I get the speed and accuracy from BH along with the master title for my ego. I get crippleshot and nice accuracy with the carbines which is good for PvP and PvE. Not too mention I have an area KD (charge2) which has more than once taken down a few npc's AND players. I have fullauto2 which lets me area attack but more importantly area apply states. I have decent speed (but not capped) which either a power up or speed slice would cure on any slow carbine although I really dont need it that bad and go for damage instead. I have the state defenses of pistol and a little extra speed as well as a point blank KD (for emergencies). Really, pistols is pretty sad unless its dabbled for defenses and eyeshot is really the biggest reason I need it as MIND damage is king in PvP. With medic 1/0/0/0 I can still use stimB's and get in a slightly better than novice heal when I'm taking a beating. I cannot emphasize the importance that healing can play if you dont have a friend to back you up.

As of right now I have +155 carb accuracy, which I think is pretty good as is, and plus considering SB isn't affected by accuracy and most Jedi don't have much in the lines of Ranged Defense (who wastes points on raw ranged defense when you have 85% blocking anyhow?), I don't really see the point in getting any more. So basically what I'm asking here is why do you spend so much SP on accuracy mods? Or is it the specials in the trees that attracted you? If that's the case, what do I gain here that I don't get in MBH (aside from cone attacks and cripple, which I intend on getting anyhow)? Its the specials that initially attracted me. BH specials dont have a decent high damage attack that matches crippleshot very well. Not too mention that sometimes the Jedi aren't alone and that accuracy can come in real handy when trying to KD a Jedi coat tail dragger. The 85% block is pretty much a done deal although if you can KD/dizzy them beforehand they can't block shots (although they can heal themselves). General PvP is also a big consideration as the higher your accuracy the better chance you can hit a stacker. Then again, carbines is just kewl and its a shame it got the shaft so badly.

My second question is in regards to the original thread title, is Scatter 2 really worth it? I plan on getting a krayt carb with an imp stock anyhow, so I'm going to max out on my specials just with +85 speed, so I don't need any of the mods from the line. But you yourself seem to think scatter 2 is valuable, but you didn't pick it up for your MBH template. I've also noticed back in my *shutter* Fencer/BH days that it was better to work with scatter instead of a 3/2/1 attack. I heard it has something to do with Jedi needing more force to heal all three pools, but am not positive. I didn't pick it up because I ran out of points to spend and you really need a MIND attack for general PVP. So the points went to pistols. As I posted above, scatter has its uses and technically this is the only MIND attack that carbineers get. Albiet, I wouldn't gamble the farm on it. It does do 3 light damage attacks across all three pools. This causes the PSG to absorb a larger total % of damage as opposed to a single large hit. For the longest time there was an armor hole where fencer scatterhit (not sure about carbines) would bypass armor and do alot of damage. They fixed that a while back so scatterhit is mainly used to destroy PSG's and build up battlefatigue. Scattershot made do a bit more total damage to an unarmored opponent like a Jedi but because its scattered over the HAM its not really helping that much. If you're getting through he defenses (you have to master the lightsaber boxes to get the full 85% otherwise it can only get to 60something%) then legshot or crippleshot would be a much better attack to use.

Do the moderate defenses in carbineer actually help? I was thinking of getting at least 0020 for the +15 KD and+25 intim def, would that really make that much of a difference? And what about counterattack? I was hoping that +80 would actually mean something against a Jedi, but am not really sure. Would these mods actually help at all, or would it just be better to put them into accuracy? Judiging from your template you seem to think so, but why? Moderate defense do help against lower end Jedi and normal PvP'ers but its not something that will let you stand still and take abuse. My template is dabbling a bit on the defensive side but is more for offense than anything else. Like I said, if MIND damage wasn't an issue so much I'd drop pistols. Geo pistols are waaay overrated (I carry a few 6%stun 1500 condition psg's which removes half the damage before it has to contend with my stun armor) and the DE-10 does as much damage as a well made Elite but for 50x the price. The key there again is the damage to the MIND it can do. Counterattack isn't working like it should although it DOES stop shots from hitting you. Its basically the same thing as block but doesn't let you get the free return shot like its supposed to. Still any damage you aren't taking is a good thing. Yes I have counterattacked Jedi attacks. Lightsabers go through armor but not defenses. I honestly wish that we could get better defense vs. intimidate. Its such a major advantage that melee have over us and your effectiveness plumets the second it lands on you.

The template I'm looking at right now is MBH/ Carb 3440/ Pist 0040/ NM. Would give me access to +180 carb acc, cripple shot, scatter 2, FKD &sprayshot (those two give all the states I need), +40 Dizzy, +65 KD, +20 Pos Down, and +80 counterattack. Any feedback? Wasted mods? Insufficient mods? The template is good although you're missing out on the area KD. Watching faction npc's, Janta, or groups of enemy players fish flop at the same time is pretty funny. At the moment having a Master Bounty Hunter title is more for ego than anything else although sprayshot is kinda nice. You can drop it and the LLC tree (which is great for lairs but not much else) and use the points to add more defense, medic, or master carbineer. A little extra pistol dodge might come in handy or you can pick up a little more melee defense from pistols.

I know that's an assload of questions, but I tried to highlight the most important issues. Do you, or anyone else, have any insight to offer? Not really. I try to refrain from talking some much about bounty hunter issues on the carbineer forums but since the two stack very nicely with each other its hard not too. I almost want to believe the dev's had intended us to do so by the crappy mods that master carbineer gets by itself. If they move the mods completely from one to the other they would be complete professions IMO.

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Pikemen get super DoT pikes....where are my super DoT carbines? How about an intimidate? I really can't wait for the CU.

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Thanks a lot for the info. After reading your feedback I think I'm going to opt out of scatter2 in favor of some melee defense from Pistoleer.

I don't do any PvP outside of Jedi bounties. The only time I join factions is to avoid the gtef, in which case I won't need to worry about normal stackers (in protection groups or in factional wars), so the added accuracy and cone attacks from the 4th column doesn't look too appealing.

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TAfirehawk wrote:

Actually ScatterShot2 and CripplingShot hit for the same total damage, just the potential to hit more pools than one with ScatterShot2.

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But the problem is (at least in my situation) is that only a very few of my shots are going to get past Saber Block. A 3 pool attack would be great at grinding down on HAM in normal PvP, but the way I see it, what few shots of mine that will go through will need to be crammed into one pool if I have any chance at victory.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. If you have something to add please do so, my template isn't finished yet.

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forgoten wrote:

Scattershot2 is faster if not speedcapped i believe,

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*cough*NO*cough*

You have been around here enough to know where the Specials Data Table is......and how I feel about posting wrong info that is listed in the FAQ....

But thanks for putting the "i believe" on there since you weren't sure and didn't want to take the 15 seconds to look it up

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forgoten wrote:

Here is the deal guys, if your good, you won't spam a special, you watch your target and your combat que very very closely. You will use all your specials at the right time. Don't ever spam crippleshot or fullautosingle 2 simply because it works or it is effective. Always fight to your best and most effective way. So i agree with the posts above me, its all situational, and if your a smart fighter, youll use all your working specials against your opponent, the order you use them, and your technique is up to you.

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This is the essence of being a Carbineer.....THINKING.....