Carbineer Archive

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orange5 wrote:

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AaBeck wrote:

Use your Beloved SprayShot and then Knock him down with Fire Knock Down when Down Spam Crippling Shot when he gets up use Actionshot2 or Supression Fire2for making em Kneel if he tries to get up then he will get down again try the Fireknock down again. and keep Crippling Shoting him.

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naa, use chargeshot instead of kdfire, it will land much more often, you probablyhave a better chance of kding using underhandshot than you would firekd...

I don't think actionshot2 is a great posture changer in pvp, I only use it to land the bleed, if it changes their posture its a bonus...

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Chargeshot maybe but never ever in my time have i seen Underhand more effective then Fireknock down. come on when you fight a Doctor its importand t land a KnockDown and a Dizzy at the same time and i find the KnockDown to be more Offen with FireKnockDown

Well i use SupressionFire me self

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samijx wrote:

Hello all.

I mastered Carbineer today. I now am both master BH and Master Carbineer. I speed cap any carbine, accuray is +200 counterattack is +105. I have all the basic carbines made of high quality and all have nice damage slices on them. I duelled a friend today who is a master rifleman/ master Swordsman. He whooped up on me so bad. it really got to me. I do realize that I wasn't using any power-ups, but I did have food/buffs (So did he) but it wasn't like I barely lost, I could barely get his HAM to even move. I laid all the various states on him, even got him on his back at one point, but still, I could barely touch him. Either I completely suck, or it's the BH/carbineer template??? (I'm not expecting to rule the world, but to be competitive would be nice)

I like the thought of BH/Carbines. I like the state effects, ranged KD, and the BH concept, but geez, what am I to do...run around and pick on Newbs all day?

I think that the one thing that will frustrate me the most will be what they do after Combat Upgrade. This is a part of a quote from Thunderheart. "And with the completion of these changes, every player will have the freedom to re-allocate their character’s skill points as they wish to take advantage of the new, enhanced combat system." Does this mean, that if the CU fixes ranged combat, and anyone who sees that ranged combat professions such as BH/Carbines is a nice profession, that they can just instantly chage to it just like in test center? All my efforts can be gained by some jerk in 3 seconds like on test center? I hope this is not true. I just hope it's not true.

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I'm also a master BH master carbineer. If you don't have novice brawler I'd suggest you trying it (swap it for novice medic if that's what you did with the remaining points). Once he's intimidated use Spray shot on him. Once he's stunned try knocking him down (with dizzy). Once he's on the floor... crippleshot to death. Not that it will always work, but in this case, if he's a swordsman/rifleman you won't need medic at all, he's going to try to get your mind. As long as you keep him stunned/intimidated he won't do much damage, and if he doesn't have medic he's dead.

Also forgot to mention: I use mostly laser carbines (bought 3 regular ones (those that have around 320 max damage) to master carbineer hoping to get some decent damage slices. I got something around 30% and 32% (damage slice) and a decent speed slice in the third one. The speed sliced one was wasted in the "grinding" process, and sold for 6k in the bazaar, and the other two, well, those are my tools in pvp. I also have a nice DXR6 carbine that hits 270-400 with a powerup, but I never use it.

Message Edited by Fortune120 on 01-10-2005 06:49 PM

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samijx wrote:

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AaBeck wrote:

Chargeshot maybe but never ever in my time have i seen Underhand more effective then Fireknock down. come on when you fight a Doctor its importand t land a KnockDown and a Dizzy at the same time and i find the KnockDown to be more Offen with FireKnockDown

Well i use SupressionFire me self

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Well...since fireKD is a higher level skill...I thought the same thing as you. About a month ago I started using underhand shot because of the forums....and know what?? The forums were right. I find that sprayshot for states and Underhand shot for KD works the best. Then Crippleshot for damage works best.

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Well when i Tested it..... i Disliked it

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ZandorFelok wrote:

First off, please do not faulter at heart, BH/Carbineer is .... the best

The issue is armor, even with the best of the best of the best Laser Carb with the highest damage slice and max/min powers and speed capped you won't do anything because of armor. 70-80% protection vs energy + PSG's.... we can't.

We should know this by now, Stun and Dots are the only way to consistantly win in PvP. Thus unless you have a GOOD DoT carbine (my mind psn one is crappy) you can't do much other then stack on the State Effects and the KD's. WHICH is what we are good for... but we are (with the SWEETNESS of Crippleshot) a possible replacement for a rifleman as a 'Nuker' Class. HIGH DAMAGE. In PvE with my uberest laser carb + crippleshot I can hit targets for over 5k. Adv Strafe shot doesn't even hit that hard.

I've dueled many a rifleman, I fought against them and I've been one myself. The only thing that seperates you is the armor. Duel any profession and make it a no armor duel and you will be suprised how well we do.

CU = New Armor designs, armor for tanks, armor for nukers, armor for soloers. Composite won't be the end all armor. Composite might be strong for tanks cause of high kin protection but could be weakest vs acid and energy and cold, but Padded will be ok vs kinetic and ok vs cold but high on energy. CU = Stronger more well rounded professions ALL THE WAY AROUND, nota rifleman or pistoleer only.

Patience, we will be loved and hated come the CU.

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No DXR6?

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ZandorFelok wrote:

First off, please do not faulter at heart, BH/Carbineer is .... the best

The issue is armor, even with the best of the best of the best Laser Carb with the highest damage slice and max/min powers and speed capped you won't do anything because of armor. 70-80% protection vs energy + PSG's.... we can't.

We should know this by now, Stun and Dots are the only way to consistantly win in PvP. Thus unless you have a GOOD DoT carbine (my mind psn one is crappy) you can't do much other then stack on the State Effects and the KD's. WHICH is what we are good for... but we are (with the SWEETNESS of Crippleshot) a possible replacement for a rifleman as a 'Nuker' Class. HIGH DAMAGE. In PvE with my uberest laser carb + crippleshot I can hit targets for over 5k. Adv Strafe shot doesn't even hit that hard.

I've dueled many a rifleman, I fought against them and I've been one myself. The only thing that seperates you is the armor. Duel any profession and make it a no armor duel and you will be suprised how well we do.

CU = New Armor designs, armor for tanks, armor for nukers, armor for soloers. Composite won't be the end all armor. Composite might be strong for tanks cause of high kin protection but could be weakest vs acid and energy and cold, but Padded will be ok vs kinetic and ok vs cold but high on energy. CU = Stronger more well rounded professions ALL THE WAY AROUND, nota rifleman or pistoleer only.

Patience, we will be loved and hated come the CU.

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AaBeck wrote:
Hit em 10-20 times with Crippling and the PSG is gone hit em with 10 shots of Scatter shot and their Synthstake is gone.

then you Hit for 100-300 per hit gg

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Yup

PSGs do indeed add a 35%ish layer of protection.. that means it decays by 65% of the damage you inflict. For a 3k condition PSG, that translates to ~4615 points of damage (or less) that you need to inflict to destroy a PSG. 4600 points, assuming you hit for about 500 in your combat log is about 10 shots. If you're hitting for less because you don't have a high end Laser Carbine (or they have mitigation), then it nears some 15 shots or so. Against non-mitigated opponents (most melee'rs these days), thats 5 shots.

99% of the people I know (including myself) put blind faith in a PSG and assume that like armor, it decays very little. Armor decays by the amount that goes through, and as such, someone hitting you for 500 damage consistantly *will* reduce your PSG within a matter of seconds.

Synthsteak is also easily taken care of, as Uncrow pointed out. Steak usually ranges from 36 to 40 attack protections. ScatterShot2 from Carbineer, last I checked, takes *3* uses away. That again is some 10-20 specials.. but keep in mind that your CrippleShots from the PSG do factor in Synthsteak-exhausting, leaving you with maybe 5-10 shots at the most to completely wear it down.

Follow with standard Carbineer tactics.. states, posture changes.. and a speed-capped CrippleShot and you're suddenly dishing out 3-4x the damage you were before. I'll admit - it is minimal compared to what some other professions can do.. and armor *is* a big problem in reducing our weapon effectivness (as is Ranged mitigation in nullifying a Laser Carbine), but it's not completely dissipated out.

It takes high-damage krayt tissue and a good damage slice, agreed. But we're not useless

I'm lucky that I can actually successfully rely on my PSG for several fights. In PvPing nearly every day, a single PSG lasts me about a week because I've defense-stacked with Pistol techniques and Master Fencer, making myself an extremely difficult target to hit. When I pop Aircake, my dodging ability is further increased so that I *rarely* get hit unless I'm a designated target by the other group.

But that's just one of the exceptions in PSG-wearing. BH/Carbineers have little defenses and as such take several hits. The key is to develop a playstyle which allows you to use a *second* synthsteak in the middle of a battle if need be and to constantly check your PSG. One technique I had employed was simply to put 4-5 PSGs in a toolbar and swap to the next every minute or so, regardless of what the condition was. Considering most PvP encounters are *much shorter* in length than 5 minutes, it ensured I atleast had a "fresh" PSG. At the end of the fight, you can see which took damage, and by examining the combat log, you can assess what you could have done better and which players/templates you should steer clear from.

To recap: few people cycle PSGs mid-battle and few leave any room for more steak. Wearing it down takes between 10-20 seconds for a speedcapped Carbineer, which is quite acceptable.

Message Edited by AdmiralSpy on 01-13-2005 01:05 PM

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AdmiralSpy wrote:

Yes, the DXR6 does bypass the PSG, but the DXR6 has inherently lesser damage than an equally crafted Laser.

That means that while going through a PSG might be a nice advantage, its AP1 (versus the laser's AP2) and lower damage ends up in you inflicting only part of what you could. Contrast that to a weapon which is initially "useless".. but then suddenly gains an immense boost (again because few worry about PSGs or steak) and it becomes clear why the Laser Carbine is still a popular choice.

Building false confidence and surprising opponents is an integral part of PvP. PSGs do reduce our damage significantly, but only for a short period of time.

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QFE

now if only someone ran the actual numbers

/macro blow_own_horn;
/dump;

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wilibus wrote:

now if only someone ran the actual numbers

/macro blow_own_horn;
/dump;

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Hehe yeah - as the numbers show, there's only a 1% increase in resistance from the Laser to the DXR6 for base components.. but as soon as the PSG goes.. it's a clear winner.

You should add some additional mitigation info, wilibus In such cases, the numbers on the Laser would be disadvantaged, for example.