Carbineer Archive
Thread: I was just beaten silly by BH Confusion Shot and I'm a Master Carbineer
InCrEdEaGlE wrote:No you dont spam stand or ull just fall down when you get up...You are supposed to push stand once at a time until the thing doesnt say "You are so dizzy you fall down"if you push stand again after that point then you willfall back down even if youwere going to get up and also confusion shot sucks...it does about 100 damage in pvp so it difficult to kill someone purely on bh skills
you are right.... spam isn't the right word. i meant be ready to press the /stand key again after you've fallen back down. doing /stand; /stand; /stand won't help you at all....
It wouldnt be poor design if the defenses against it worked.
But currently defense modifiers dont work(as say devs and most anyone with them).
If defense vs knockdown(or posture change, or blind, or whatever) worked, you would see those attacks reduced in effectivness
Ok, I will feed this one more time although I know better.
I have survival 4 it was a prereq to one of my classes.
The BH does deserve some benefit to having two of his trees mapped for him, but the currentbenefit is disproportionate to the effort put forth when compared with thestats given tocarbineers. Keep in mind we are comparing one quarter of the BH class to the entire carbineer tree here.
I hunt with BH's all the time. Most of my regular squad are BH's in fact. We fight the same creatures and they do not receive one half or lessof the xp that I do. Most of them go the pistol route and out-damage me on pure speed and special spam, and theypull significantly more xp than I do on a regular basis.
I have a degree from Wesleyan University in Molecular Biology & Biochemistry. I am working on a Master's at Harvard, and I am a salary drawing A.C.S. card holding pharmaceutical research scientist. Allow me to clear up one misconception for you. The higher degrees don't get handed out to people for "being smarter". They are earned through discipline and diligence. Being smart is helpful, but when it comes to gaining experience there's no getting around the fact that time in = reward out. What people are trying to do is to have that same principle applied to the game so that there can be a semblance of balance.
I have not asked anyone to nerf BH's; I have called for balance for the carbineers. Whether or not they achieve balance through nerfs or buffs the net effect is the same as long as they achieve it. The disparity between the effort to reward ratio of the BH to the Carbineer with regards to the carbine is the only thing about the BH that concerns me.
In the short term arguing to keep gimped classes down may seem like a good idea because you get to appear as a strong character. In the long run though it reduces the amount of pride that people can take in being 'uber class x'. PvP becomes boring as everyone involved flocks to the sametwo or three classes to stay competitive. Roleplaying evaporates as the individual's skills and decisions matter less than which class they pick. As everyone gravitates to a few classes diversity is lost and the general popularity and moral of a game decline. If you enjoy playing games that involve other people in the long run it is in your best interest to have the playing field levelled. It keeps things fresh and varied, and gives you decent choices for a second or third character to play.
Hmm, I just thought of something.
Dizzy causes a Knockdown when doing a posture change....kneeling, sitting, standing....so maybe /standing up from a knocked down position is considered a Posture Change, and the Knockdown is reapplied. Sounds like a bug to me.
Master carbineer only gets one box that has knockdown defense in it, which is Counterinsurgency 2. It provides only +15 vs Knockdown and Intimidate... need I say more?
I myself am a BH Carb, but I hate using BH Carb moves because they use mind as well, but I have to admit, after talking to somepeople last night, Confusion sounds awfully worth it for the time being.
I hate dabbling (if you can call BH Carb 4 dabbling), but as far as I'm concerned it's the only way to be viable as a carbineer without being a master or medic/doctor/CH as well.
I've got to say, BH Carb 4 completely blows away PVE...being able to fire a 2000 damage shot every1 to 1.5 seconds(Burst shot I using laser carb with HAM usage negated by a tat sunburn) is downright awesome, not even taking into account the specials you get as a BH. I haven't tested myself in PVP yet, but that's soon to come.
I just wish the devs would realize that someone who specializes in a weapon should be better (regardless of skill points spent) than someone who does not. Oh, and if you still follow the skill point argument.. BHs spend what, 14 points on one weapon? Guess what.Weapon specialistsspend63 on one weapon. Yeah, where's your skill point argument now.
Let me save the time and repost this. This was from a NERF BH CARBINE thread, and he has the problem you do.
(CarbineMaster (the nerf screamer) is in white, my responses are in red.)
Me: Ok ok. Time to go over your crap again, since you don't seem to get a point through your head once, or twice, or three times or...ok lets get it over with.
CarbineMaster:"...Regarding how fast I can get through scouting... hmmm its just time.. I've got everything in scout but trapping. I also have marksman. Its grinding like any other profession. I'm just saying once you get to Novice BH its easy rolling because no more combat xp to deal with. I'd like to see you go up Master Carbineer and say that its faster than BH. Beginner professions like master marksman / scout I can do in a weeks time now that I know the strategy. Carbine tree's are shared xp points so if you gain 120k xp you can only use it in one box and you have to do it again to get the others on the same level. So after the first level up I need to choose do I want speed or accuracy... in which it only gives me +5. BH you get both at +10 for doing the same amount of xp..."
Lets take this part first. "...So after the first level up I need to choose do I want speed or accuracy... in which it only gives me +5. BH you get both at +10 for doing the same amount of xp..." In total, Carbineers get more skill mods overall. If you can count, so theres no real argument there, and the current speed cap makes BH's and Carbineers end up at the cap with a fast enough weapon.
Now lets move to this section. "...Regarding how fast I can get through scouting... hmmm its just time.. I've got everything in scout but trapping. I also have marksman. Its grinding like any other profession. I'm just saying once you get to Novice BH its easy rolling because no more combat xp to deal with..." Now that you know an exploit, sure its fast. If you dont know an exploit your a loser with no life. Most people don't play 24/7 like you must. Master Marksman alone can even take a while if your a new character.
Next..."...I'm just saying once you get to Novice BH its easy rolling because no more combat xp to deal with. I'd like to see you go up Master Carbineer and say that its faster than BH. Beginner professions like master marksman / scout I can do in a weeks time now that I know the strategy. Carbine tree's are shared xp points so if you gain 120k xp you can only use it in one box and you have to do it again to get the others on the same level..." Really its not easy rolling. By the way, BH isn't supposed to be a sole profession. The point is to mix it with Carbineer/Pistoleer. That makes it even harder and skill points are lost about 10x faster. Sure no more Combat XP but you try getting Master BH with the Investigation tree. Yeah tell me when you do that in a #*(@ month. Thats our combat tree. Master Carbineer is easier in my opinion. With Carbineer you can get new shots, like Cripple. You only get KD's in BH. I rest that case.
Next? "...You also commented how BH's get less xp per kill. True if you use LLC or Scatter Pistols. You know why, because those guns are higher damage. Try killing a big animal with a carbine and see how long it takes. The LLC has higher damage so you are expected to kill more to gain xp. With carbine the damage is low and HAM penalties are so high that its difficult to kill anything..." Lets put it this way. BH HAS NO DAMAGE SPECIALS. WE ONLY GET KD'S SO WERE WORSE OFF. By the way, you get a major XP decrease with a Laser Carbine at BH Carbine 2. So your weapon theroy doesn't work. And your low damage thing is hurting yourself. Were using the same weapon fool.
Complaint #2894 from CarbineMaster: Regarding BH's don't have the option to pursue any other profession because of the used up skill points is a silly excuse. The whole skill point and combination of marksman and scout to become BH doesn't make sense. Your expertise in a particular weapon should be based on the amount of experience you have with it! Yes carbineers have the defensive edge, but if you look at speed and accuracy BH has the slight advantage. A level I BH carbine is better than a level 2 carbineer because just hopping one level gives you +10 in both accuracy and speed with 1/2 the XP points. If it were based on that Master carbineer should be 4x better than BH carbine. Ok. BH's can only take up one other Master. Thats it. They can Master Carbine and BH Carbine. NOTHING ELSE. They are left with 0 skill points. So its not a silly excuse. BH may have a slight advantage with speed, but Carbineers need Carbine IV. BH's need Master Marksman/Master Scout. When Carbineers have to do that, then you can talk to me about an unfair advantage. And something you may not know, a Master Carbineer is about 4x better than an Investigator. 
Oh another? I love this game, but a lot of things don't make sense. I know you guys are defensive about your profession because you've pursued it, but it doesn't justify the bonus you get to similar weapons for having 1/4 the xp and non-comparable combat XP. Lets put it this way. Investigation is our Combat XP and is 20x harder so please never talk about that again. Also, we had to do more work than a Carbineer so using the weapon excuse is stupid. We had to do that same tree, giving us the qualifactaions, so it makes sense we can use Carbineer weapons...I mean really, are you that dumb?
And the last complaint. (Thank god) Devs should understand that BH's are already compensated by their special weapons, but also understand that they use the same carbines as anyone else and difference in very small to a master carbineer. Master Carbineers being slightly better than BH carbine is not enough. Devs just decided to make BH's baddass and give some arbitrary speed and accuracy to BH carbine. That's dumb logic! Let me say this. If your comparing an Investigator to a Master Carbineer, the Master Carbineer is going to win everytime. If your comparing a Master Carbineer to an Investigator/Carbineer, the BH is going to win. He did more work for his XP, doing the Master Scout and extra BH tree. And the same weapon comment HAS TO BE THE DUMBEST thing I have ever heard. WE GOT THE SAME QUALAFACTION and there is no BH Carbine, so what are we going to do, use our fingers!? You get more mods so dont tell me about the Speed and Accuracy of BH Carbine.
I could master carbineer 10 x over by the time I got investigation 4
its like 70 xp per mission which is 486 missions and considering each mission takes half an hour to an hour we're talkin 242 hours and if u play 6 hours per day thats 40 days straight of missions tel lme you couldnt get a wimpy 4 million or so carbine xp easily in that time so the next perso nwho says that bh xp in general is easier to get then go ahead and tr ythe investiation line
Leomi wrote:
RE: Scouting XP:Now that you know an exploit, sure its fast. : I did the scouting xp grind. It's a time grind, but it requires no skill whatsoever. It's the easiest skill out there next to surveying and dance macroing. Sitting in a camp while you drink a coke and harvesting for xp after every kill is no exploit.
First off, Scouting XP is simple. I could hit CH in a day or 2 if I wasn't trying. I was reffering to the Survival part. If you haven't gotten Survival IV, it takes about a month to do for an average player. Not a normal person can sit around all day and play either. We have "lives". =O Whats a "life"? FIND OUT YOURSELF.
..you try getting Master BH with the Investigation tree. Don't know about that, but when I was ecstatic to be getting 800-1k combat xp by slowly bleeding kimas to deathmy equivalently levelled BH bud was running missions pulling in 5k xp/mission guaranteed, plus a nice payoff. I ain't saying it's easy, but at the same time combat xp comes in at one tenth of the rate of weapons xp. that 0004 carbineer box is a mother.
...Wow, let me know how your BH friend does it because...A BH mission takes an hour to do on average. Besides that marks are lost resulting in no XP. Not only that you only get 100 XP PER MISSIONS after the BH Carbine Nerf. (Which is already nerfed my I add.) I can get combat XP fast with my friends. I got a ton on Endor. Investigation is much harder and please don't say it is one tenth of the rate...Investigation will take you about 200-300+ Hours to do up to Investigation IV. (According to stats on the BH Boards). I got a friend who did the Pistoleer Combat tree in about 50 hours.
We had to do more work than a Carbineer: You have more prereqs but you did not do more work on learning to use the carbine than the carbineer. A guy with a PhD in Chemistry doesn't know more about Physics than a lowly Physics Bachelor just because hesatisfiedmore prerequisites. Time in = reward out. If you had a prereq in business it would be just about as good an argument for superior carbine skillsthan a carbine master as the scouting/rifle/pistol/investigation excuse is. And it's not like those scouting skills magically dissapear when you go BH. Those skill points aren't thrown away and they don't cost more than they do when a carbineer takes up scouting as I did. Say the argument out loud using literal terms: "I studied a lot of scouting so I Deserve to be faster and more accurate with a Carbine than a Carbine master!" Repeat until it sinks in.
Well, we should havea slight advantage in some things BECAUSE of our prerequisites. Although, you must realize that if you fight a BH Investigator correctly, you CAN BEAT HIM easy. (Not going into that because I don't want that secret let lose.) "...A guy with a PhD in Chemistry doesn't know more about Physics than a lowly Physics Bachelor just because hesatisfiedmore prerequisites..." That may be correct, but the reason the guy with the PhD has the PhD is because he is a smarter person and learned more before the time he became a Chemistry Professor or whatever. (Dont drop out of High School like Indicant did folks. ) You also seem to realize that XP is HARDER for a BH to get than a Carbineer. Our XP decline halves at BH Carbine 2, while yours doesnt start until Carbine Lvl 2 all the way across. The reason is because of the skill mods with our speed and accuracy. And lets say this in litteral terms: "I went to Middle School and went to McDonalds to work, compared to my friend who went to college and completed more classes and is a doctor now! Why is he making money faster than I am?" The case rests...
survival exp: take 20,000 credits. find 10 people. tell them you will pay them 2000 credits each to sit in a camp with you for 5 minutes. while sitting, make a new camp every minute. do this 1/day for 5 days. 20k survival exp (that's the survival4 box). that's the way i got MINE. way back in the day, when i was the 5th bh on my server (and the first to drop.)
investigation exp: total of 34,000. the missions done with just novice take approx 8-12 minutes EACH. you can accumulate a total of 2000 exp this way. at the 100 per you claim (i myself was only getting 72, but its been a LONG time since i did any) that's 20 missions. 20 x 8 = 160-240 minutes. that means 2.5-4 hours. train investigate1. now, it starts getting harder. i'm not sure on the time-length for these missions, since i didn't make it this far (flame away. we all know you're a flamer anyway). still, do these for the max exp possible before training. end result should be that it takes you about as long to get those 34k exp as an elite to get the 400k combat exp or so. and if your pistoleer friend got it that fast...can i say 'chain kd on giant baz nitches'? wait, i CAN. and THAT is how he did it. guaranteed. umm, sure, maybe it'll take you 200-300 hours. whatever. hav eyour pistoleer friend do that 425k combat exp blitz in 50 hours now. it will not happen.
carbineer skill w/carbine v. bh skill w/carbine: if you would have bothered to read the last paragraph of the post you didn't copy all the way (as i didn't with yours), then you'd see that he said that even a discrepency of 15-20% wouldn't make him mad. THAT' should be your 'slight advantage'. furthermore, i have little problems with a MASTER bh being much better with a carbine than a master carbineer. why? because he's put a massive amount of time into his profession (*cough* investigation line that i bet you haven't even mastered yet.). however, it is PATHETICALLY easy to get to bounty carb4. it is MUCH harder to get to master carbineer. 25% of the work should not yield 115% the result.
the 'education' blitz: having a phd doesn't mean your smart. having a bachelors doesn't mean your smart/stupid. dropping out of high school doesn't mean your stupid. they only IMPLY these things. furhter, the comparison you present is NOT a valid counter-comparison to the phd v. bachelors. why? heh, thought you'd ask that. because he is representing two people that are in different fields of study (bh and carbineer), and if yougive the chemist w/ a phd a highly detailed physics problem, the likelihood of him being able to answer/solve it is drastically lower than the chances of the person with a bachelors physics degree. YOUR comparison is: carbineers work at mickey-d's because they're stupid, and bh's get good-paying jobs because we're smart. of course, i notice that you're a bh/ch/carbineer...which means to ME that you don't intend to master any of them, and at a guess i'd say your template is: tame2/train2, bounty carb4, and carbineer 0300. hmm, maybe more in ch and carbineer. maybe some novice medic too? hehe, there's a word for people like you (and its not necessarily bad. but when you act like you do, it DOES): min/maxer.
and granted, pistoleer could use work. and riflemen. and carbineer. and droid engineer. and squad leader. and a whole ton of other professions, as well. and i apologize to the original poster of this thread for continuing this silly bh v. carbineer debate. but, get ready! the devs'll nerf dizzy soon enough.
Just wanted to let you in on the Investigations branch.
Novice missions cannot be done over and over at 8 to 12 minutes pure Bull. Why? Bugged BH Missions you get them every so often and not to mention if your looking to get a Novice mission in the very same city it's going to take you 8 to 12 minutes sitting at the Mission terminal to find one ... if your lucky. Novice BH missions top out at 70 exp points per mission. Realistically your looking at 30 minutes per mission on average and getting 68 exp points per average. This is just Novice mind you. You need 2000 points for Inv I.
Now lets look at Investigation missions branch 1 and 2. Bugged BH missions take a real bite out of your butt this time because your looking at an hour on average per mission and you find that bug after you just spent that hour looking for your unattackable mark. Maximum BH points you can get from a single mission is 100 points. Your averaging one hour per mission and getting 100 points per mission. You need 5000 points for branch 2 and 10,000 for branch 3.
Now Invetigations 3. Bugged BH missions take the same bite. Mission averages are 1 hour per but now you get 139 points maximum. You need 18,000 points for branch 4 and viola Master Bounty Hunter.
Here's a good link on what Bounty Hunters deal with on Investigations missions currently.
http://www.cothernfactory.com/criesofabh/
Its pretty good check it out...
Seiv