Carbineer Archive

I have been one of the vocal people about ChargeShot1 on these forums lately and don't care for the trolls crying nerf. BUT if it is used to take on uber PvE creatures that only groups of 5-10 should even consider, well then something must (and will) be done about it.

To be effective at Crowd Control the Carbineer needs to be quite powerful so balance will be tough.

I suggest ChargeShot1 be the same KD as the other ranged professions. That would allow ChargeShot2 to be like ChargeShot1 with a 15 sec timer for the posture to prone. Then add the AoE KD/posture to prone REAL Crowd Control attack at Master Carbineer. This "CrowdSuppression" could be just like ChargeShot1 is now but with more HAM, more delay, and a 5 or 10 second timer.

This should balance the posture to prone we get at 0-0-0-2 and move it to 0-0-0-4 so there will be less dabblers. And if the AoE KD/posture to prone is at Master, the most powerful special will be in the right place.

As a side note, it is very difficult to be specific since so many specials right now don't work properly. We all know that, but that must preface all discussions about our future, since we haven't actually had any playing time as REAL Carbineers.

The best specials can not be left at 0-0-1-2.

For Crowd Control most specials need some AoE and moved higher in the branches. Leave the first two tiers for "regular" specials and AoE for the upper tiers and Master.

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 02-03-2004 03:44 PM

Ill start with my definition of crowd control. Form this i can then build specials to achieve my goal.

Definition: The ability to manipulate large groups(3-7(10)) creatures/players in a way that puts them at an disadvantage, and gives you an advantage.

To achieve this, I foresee specials that delay attacks, push enemies back, stop movement, lower damage, increase attack time, knock down, posture change, etc.

I am not going to go through with specific named moves to do this, as they can just as easily change them and make up their own. I may put some thought into it, and come up with a skill set later.

One interjection here, Right now, Carbineers have excellent area damage attacks....that do very little but attract aggro to the user, exactly what we dont want. If we are to keep the are damage capability(I hope we do, and build on it), then there should be a more defined rule for aggro, and some way to judge the area of effect for the shots. Nothing sucks more than using Fullautoarea in a cave.

When we would be most useful, is when there are more targets than we have tanks. One carbineer could lay down the crowd control while the other lays down the area damage. The 2 strengths of our proffesion.

Hope this helps.

chargeshot 2 : If this skill worked as described, this would make the carbineer a valuable profession for PvP and PvE. It needs to act correctly and not like the current chargeshot 1 which is "spammable". It could be balanced by having a reduction to accuracy when used. I.E. it is X% less likely to hit each target than chargeshot 1 at all levels of carbine accuracy modifiers. For instance, if I used chargeshot 1 on 5 targets, 4 get hit and fall down. For chargeshot 2, I hit 2-3 of them on average. This skill could also be given a long delay for balancing. This makes it harder for the carbineer to recover from using this shot. In pvp, this ability gives the carbineer the ability toaid his/her group in attackingclustered groups of enemy players. In PvE this ability is useful when a CH pet is killed or other creatures aggro onto the group.

Personally, I believe this ability alone would turn thecarbineer profession into a crowd control profession. This is due to the fact that we could use all of our othercone specials in combination with this skill.

The key to a crowd control in this game has to be either precluding movement (or perhaps merely their control over their movement?) or delaying their actions.

In other words, I'd consider anything that delays their action, knocks them down, forces to kneeling, makes them run away, knocks them back, or perhaps even a confusion that would randomly reassign their movement keys (and mouselook axes, probably) each time they become confused -- any of those would be great crowd control skills.

The other key to crowd control is, the crowd controller needs to be able to perform them continuously, or nearly continuously, at the expense of doing appreciable damage (shots in the 5-50 range), and at the expense of using any other moves. If I devote my entire contribution to the group to controlling one or more targets (single target should be very reasonable with the HAM cost so a carbineer can trade his contribution to the group for his target's on his own -- take both players out of the equation; while AoE multitarget control should be such that a carbineer needs medical support to keep it up for prolonged periods of time), I need to be able to have a good chance of keeping them controlled.

Finally, state defenses should work such that, particularly on AoE versions, a target has a chance of breaking the effect or not being effected, in direct proportion to their defensive skills. This goes for PvE as well -- MOBs intended to pose difficult group encounters should resist crowd control effects frequently enough to require several (2-3) players dedicated to the low damage control moves.

One thing I forgot to mention is that in controlling groups, it *is* acceptable (presuming the combat rebalance will encourage group play more) to require more than one carbineer to coordinate, perhaps alternating attacks, to effectively control the target group. Particularly if it's a large group, say of 10 targets. However, a single carbineer must be able to perform the control role against a single target, and should be pretty good at controlling a small group (2-5?) alone, remembering that his friends are the one doing damage in that instance.

Message Edited by FatherOblivion on 02-03-2004 09:59 AM

Message Edited by FatherOblivion on 02-03-2004 10:00 AM

Message Edited by FatherOblivion on 02-03-2004 10:03 AM

Just a note, some of the new chef changes that are coming remove state effects. In addition, Squad leaders and doctors can remove state effects for their squad.

Personally, I like being able to deal large damage to one target or some damge to a group of targets.

Notes found on a Good Rebel:

The charges fly by our heads, we hit the ground. Some of my teammates won't be getting up again and some are frozen in fear. The first shots tooks us by surprise, where did they come from. Slowly we move forward, another burst fires around us. We return fire from where we think the shots came from. I need to see the enemy, I wipe the blood from my eyes and prepare to stand and rush.

what about an area of effect warning shot? name it warningshot2 or something. that would be great for pve against group aggro but not overbalanced as AoE knockdown can be....