Carbineer Archive

I can't say I'm absolute about the maths or so. But give the following premises I can give an answer:

1) Cripple Shot is thought of as one of the better specials in terms of damage output. (it is also a special that I know because I'm carbineer myself)

2) Given Master Carbineer, and the appropriate speed power ups, you can spam Cripple Shot once every second. (I'm not certain about that. I'm not that good a carbineer but from what I gather the ultimate speed cap on any weapon is once every second.)

3) Poison ticks once every eight seconds.

4) Cripple shot using a decent damage output Carbine can reach up to like 1700 damage per shot.

Ok, I admit these numbers are nowhere near exact but they will have to suffice until someone provides better ones.

Now, with 75% damage reduction the 1700 cripple shot will do 425 damage per hit. Multiply that by 8 and we will reach a reasonable figure. Ooops 3400 damage per tick. Now, of course, carbineers can miss. Since defenses agains CM poisonsare under way in one sort or another (there already is food) I will not take these into account but say an average Master Carbineer will miss once or twice during this 8 shot sequence.
7*425=2975
6*425=2550

So... The answer is undoubtedly resting on some rather shaky math but the limit for when we are overpowered seems to lie somewhere in between 2550 and 3400 damage per tick.

Now concider that we get cries for nerf and 75% reduction when our damage output reaches 1200 per tick. Does that seem fair to anyone?

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BTW, do anyone here have Tolium to sell on Gorath? Send an e-mail to Rennec.

Hey!

I just realised... we are seriously getting the shaft here if my calcualtions are correct. I would definitely want 75% reduction in PvP but then I would also require a tickrangeing in between 10200to 13600 in PvE... That'd be something.

I want Combat Medic to be made into a viable PvE template! Now!

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Terikan wrote:

Just curious. I see lots of fighting back and forth about dot damage, and maybe the CMs can just answer this. How much per tick is too much? 1200? 1000? 2500? At what point do you finally give in and say, 'ok, unbalanced'?

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I'd say 30k damage is unbalanced. Till then (lol we will never see that)I will strive to get as much damage output as possible....

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Demenshia wrote:

I wouldnt mind 100-200 damage per tick with combat medics personaly i think that would be good enough for them

There would be no threat with a low tic rate like that. Enhanced Focus and Willpower that is easily attainable for the average player would be able to ignore the most above average poison with the enhanced regen rate.

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But right now i got hit with a 699 wounds to my mind with an area effect dease that got half my group

That is not a common disease. The only way that kind of wounding can be done is with high BF. If you don't take care of your BF than that's your problem not ours...

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IMO this is too overpowered the wounds are too much atleast make it wound willpower and focus like bleeds to because there no way to counter attack someone throwing an area effect dease from 80 meters that does 700 wounds

Wounds have a limitation in game where they will only tic down to +1 of your base stat. For example 400/400/1100 diseased to all HAM will only net -399/-399/-1099 and won't touch the buffed stats. Knowing this I will vary the poisons I use because I know the more they tic the more BF is caused. The higher the BF the greater the amplified tic will be when the disease I applied gets around to ticking. This is a tactic I use with kiters or in raids aganst healers and riflemen to remove them from the fight.

In a straight up fight one on one I'll stack some health and mind poison then target the lowest pool with my melee attacks. Or I will dizzy and lunge keep them on their backs while the poison does the work.

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Use can say you arnt overpowered all you like but in MY opinion use are overpowered

Fine that's your opinion. Coming from someone who sounds like they know little about the CM class I expect nothing less.

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Im not saying you are the ONLY skill that is over powered there are many but completly making my mind pool into wounds in 8 seconds is disguisting

can you tell me what other profession can do that??

Riflemen, BHs spamming /eyeshot , TKAs spamming /unarmedheadhit1...

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and yes we had 2 doctors running around curing everyone but by the time they cured 2 people each everyone was all at 1 mind

Like I said there are exceptional poisons and it sounds like you got hit by one. This however is not the average. The average CM on any server does at most 400 a tic. That is average. Other servers have better resources and so are able to make better poisons. However, you should not base a damage nerf on CMs that blow the curve for damage just because they put alot of effort into it. You would otherwise condemn the less fortunate less than average CM to 10-15 DPS poison....

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Can you explain to me why you arnt overpowered??

-No other class spends as much as we do for little to no tunrover in our crafting.

-No other class must craft their own weapons to be viable in PVP or PVE.

-No other damage class spends as many points as we do to be able to do damage and not be able to take damage.

-No other class MUST stand still to fire off their primary weapon leaving them vulnerable for 4 seconds.

-No other class has such an unbalanced lean towards crafting of offensive schematics vs defensive schematics short of weaponsmiths...

-No other class is expected to be classified as the "superior combat healer" yet unable to heal more than 5 types of damage incurred in combat when there are a total of 13.

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And dont tell me the old a Carbineer can do X amoutn of damage in X amoutn of time and a combat medic can do X amoutn of damage in X amount of time because most of you would have carbineer or some other combat skill aswell as your combat medic (some of you might not but most of you would)

So explain to me how use are not overpowered.....

Gave you plenty of reasons for our power and it's limitations.

Message Edited by Gnuut on 02-28-2004 05:00 AM

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Demenshia wrote:

Quick question tho i am curious

For all the work and penilities you get being a combat medic do you think that 700 wound damage (i had no BF)

is a fair??

If a CM has crafted a poison to do that kind of damage then yes it is fair. You have to bear in mind what I stated about the limitation on wounding Wounds have a limitation in game where they will only tic down to +1 of your base stat. If that pool is buffed we cant wound you past the buff anyway.

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i didnt mind combat medics when you the dease hit you 3 times then you had no mind but i just annoyed that now it only hit me once and i had no mind (all wounds not healable)

It was an exceptional disease that hit you, you won't see them often unless that CM has money to burn...

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again it might of been a lucky hit as you said...........but if the combat medic is reading this that done it to me *applaud* extremly good damage there mate next time we must spread out alot more then we did last time

I never said luck had anything to do with it. A CM that crafted that poison spent alot of time and money to ensure the potency was high, the range was long and damage would be crippling. Unfortunately this was at the expense of your playtime but all's fair in love and war. I don't like being Dizzied myself and that is the one thing that most players rely on most. Dizzy your opponent, initiate a posture change and Voila! Your enemy is now doing the dizzy dance for the next 2 minutes wide open for you to pummel on.....

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Terikan wrote:

Sad. Thanks for making your class look bad.

Anyone else want to give a real number. I'm not arguing about the dynamics of your class right now. You have huge advantages over other types of damage because of 'fire and forget' and the lack of armor resistance, but whatever.

I'm waiting.

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What do you mean by real number? I presented a number based on the premises stated above. If you look at them they are not unreasonable. You have to keep in mind that that would be the premiere poison manufactured and used by a master combat medic. Poisons made with sub standard resources or manufactured by non Masters should of course tick for lower damage.

However it does point to the fact that what a large group of players seem to have misstaken for unreasonably overpowered is actually underpowered and if not subject to a shift in power to the better at least should be left alone. To speak frankly, most of the nerfers are full of bantha poo doo.

There are however two valid points that could be made here:

1) Combat Medics could have a weapons template as well. I for instance is Carbineer and therefore can use my carbine to put in extra damage while the poison ticks. (The "Fire and Forget" factor) This is true. So maybe poisons should tick somewhat lower. But remember, to be a fully self contained CM I actually would have to put29 Points into Artisan and the surveying branch and 29 points into Scout and the hunting branch. I would also have to put 20 points into doctor and the medical crafting branch. That leaves me with precious little points left for weapons. However, if poisons and diseases were viable options in PvE I would not hesitate to blow all my extra points into creating a self supporting Comabt Medic.
Right now I can't do that because 1) I would get the worst kinds of missions since poisons don't count towards difficulty. 2) I would be chanceless since my poisons, even the best poisons I can manufacture at the moment, arerather ineffective against any MOBs (and will not kill them anyways).
How ever, a slight tweak downwards in my figures should be implemented because of the "Fire and Forget" factor.

2) Diseases cause massive amounts of wounds, an a scale unlike any other in the game. This could be countered quite easily by letting diseases cause damage but each point of damage has a, let's say, 33% chance of being converted into a wound. This would put diseases more on par with other weapons. They would of course have to be upped in power to compensate.

I will not touch the subject of armor since:
1) There are foods and skill tapes that raises resistance.
2) There currently, besides from poison resistance, exists no armor that totally negates damage from all subsequent attacks and degrades the weapons condition by roughly 5% (assuming about 20 charges to the poison, this can vary immensly of course) permanently.
3) More resistances are most probably under way. Gas masks and resistance buffs are a possibillity in the near future.

I might have made my class look bad to you. But you sir, you have as far as I can see no class at all.

Dang... that means I have to reconfigure my numbers.

We should, tweaking aside, do somewhere like 3750 to 4250 per tick in PvP then and thus 15000 to 17000 in PvE. Now we're cooking with gas I'd say. Somehow 800 per tick doesn't seem that problematic anymore, does it?