Carbineer Archive
Thread: Some conclusions
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CairnTrenor
Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:57 am
#1
I have now been able to test how a carbineer functions in large group pvp and I must say it doesn't really have the same feel anymore now that we are almost totally devoid of any crowd control specials. Still CS1 works much better than I had imagined at first, saved my life countless of times when the TKA got close. Just saying that Carbineers aren't so bad of as I had first imagined when I read about the "nerf/fix" to CS1. And hopefully they will fix our profession soon so I for one won't be dropping it anytime in the forseeable future.
Cairn Trenor
Master Weaponsmith
Master Carbineer
novamarine
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:19 am
#2
You really need to try to understand that chargeshot1 was bugged. Don't take this the wrong way. but was your whole strategy revolving around one special? I didn't even effect ranged users *IF* they were smart because it wasn't really knocking down the player (they could still fire specials). It only effects the ability ti pin melee characters in PvP.
However, it still works as a knockdown and should have several posture change specials to slow melee characters. Try using stun and blind on characters to make them easier to hit and harder to hit you.
The class is difficult right now, I agree. It is not completely broken as many people rant. You need focus on optimizing your specials to exploit your targets. It can be done. For example, after being knocked down, a target takes 50% more damage. How many specials can you fire on a KDed target? There is some thought that should go into which specials you use after a KD. Micromanaging like this is the key to success in PvP.
But, the changes to chargeshot1 have zero effect on your ability to fight against ranged opponents.
Oculus
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:30 am
#3
novamarine wrote:
For example, after being knocked down, a target takes 50% more damage. How many specials can you fire on a KDed target? There is some thought that should go into which specials you use after a KD. Micromanaging like this is the key to success in PvP.
Errm, how long does your /chargeshot1 last nova?
Mine last about a second or two, not exactly great now that it's on a timer with the other working KDs. Espcially not when you consider our +speed mods.
If /chargeShot1 is now WAD, then it is the worst KD in the game. Lasts the shortest, the hardest to land with our accuracy ( ok, well BH might be worse I can't comment on that ), we have to stand to use it and there's the silly charge animation on top of that.
It's on the KD timer, please tell the Dev who changed it to make it work as the others then. No way this is working as intended, well maybe it is, suits fine to give the worst ranged class, with no working dizzy, the worst KD as well.
Oku Kee'lus
novamarine
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:36 am
#4
I am hearing people say that the KD is not last 5 seconds. It should last 5 seconds. I will investigate this thorougly this weekend. I have to admit, aside from very casual testing on chargeshot2,actionshot1 and 2, I have notused my carbinealot in the past 2 days. I am a combat medic as well and I have been doing alot of crafting/resource gathering over the past few days. But, I will get to the bottom of the 5 second issue.
novamarine
Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:44 pm
#5
FWIW...I find my chargeshot1 to KD a target for 5 seconds. I was using a stopwatch.
I think the issue here might be that 5 seconds really is a shorter period of time than most people think.
Ron_in
Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:05 pm
#6
nova, curious but did you test the 5 seconds against a creature, an npc, or another player?
Because I noticed, or it seemed at least, that the time a target was knocked down for depended on what I was shooting (and this would be when I'm the first or only one shooting)
novamarine
Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:14 pm
#7
what were you shooting that was not staying down for 5 seconds?
AzSteve
Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:21 pm
#8
I have noticed that the KD seems to last the expected time for PCs and NPCs, but not for creatures. This was the observation I made while experimenting with the new Milk ability. Milk the herd of Kaadus, then kill them to get their hides. How's that for rapacious capitalism and environmental exploitation? 
Alyc Voleslayer of Kauri
Carbineer and Ranger
Scourge of Nature, Enemy of all things Soft and Cuddly and Milk-bearing...
CairnTrenor
Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:56 pm
#9
Nova I think you misunderstood my post there a little, what I meant to say was that I still find chargeshot1 very useful even though it got a timer. And I agree with you that this profession is not that bad of as many posts make it out to be. But as I stated in my first post we lost a great deal of crowd control functionality, if we should be a crowd control profession at all that is. Now we have almost nothing except very high damage specials which is very nice but it would be nice to have the rest of our specials fixed.
And on another note the knockdown time is nothing near 5 seconds in pvp.
Cairn Trenor
Master Carbineer
Memnoch127
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:52 pm
#10
Our Knockdown is Frankly Horrible, Ive been a master Carbineer fro a few months but im doin the Holo thing and i got smuggler as one of them, The smuggler Low Blow puts these guys down on the ground for a Very long time compared to Charge shot and low blow hits almost everytime.
One thing is WHY oh WHY did they Nerf Carbineers when we are so broken.......Why not NErf BH and the other proffessions that have KD + dizzy, Or Riflemen who can often one shot kill you, Or combat Medics who NEVER MISS with there poisons and solo LArge groups of PC's and NPC's, or Commando's who solo 6 or 7 STorm troopers at once, or SMuggler who can Use low blow them panic shot and you wont get up, or well the list goes on and on here.
Fix our Specials Make some defenses for us give us Free never decaying Armor for being a Carbineer SOMETHING to help us weve been drowning here since Release and instead of throwing us a life perserver you throw us an anchor with this Nerf.
And people Whining about how Carbineers are Uber at PvP obviously you havnt fought The guys with KD+Dizzy or Combat medics and Riflemen, But everyone is so Nerf Happy and wont be happy till a Newbie Artison is equal to a MAster Carbineer, but something needs to be done and quickly i really like my carbineer Skills and now that Bleed is Nerfed and Our KD misses and only good every 30 seconds and the HAM usage is Off the charts im getting my butt kicked in PvP and in PvE with it while other proffessions who we use to be almost Equal with are now Way above us.
SeanBlader
Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:03 am
#11
I'm ready for a state of the profession similar to the DE one posted a few months ago. Have a read if you haven't already:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=33565
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=33565
MakJuTafar
Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:26 am
#12
On a sidenote, if you spam ANY KD (I use TKA unarmed KD2), if you successfully connect your KD and you have another KD move in the queue, it seems that the target bounces right back up if they are KD'ed...That may be why you aren't seeing the expected 5 seconds...
Kaffis
Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:39 am
#13
Nova, you're quick to point out that we get 50% extra damage on a KD'd target. But with our current speeds, I find that amounts to basically one shot. So, assuming a cripple or burst shot, we're talking an extra 1-1.5k of damage every 30 seconds. Nothing to write home about when you've got a plethora of professions who can not only KD+dizzy, but are also capable of firing off specials at the cap -- even if they can't dizzy or can't land a dizzy, 5 seconds to them is 4 specials with the bonus. Assuming they can dizzy, and don't bother reapplying, these professions easily have enough time to defeat you with the bonus damage in effect in PvP, and shouldn't have a problem reapplying the dizzy against humanoid NPCs, either.
As it stands now, we've got the least beneficial knockdown by virtue of not having a dizzy and not being able to get off more than one or maybe two shots without stacking modifiers. In addition to this, we've got no melee defense, poor states to use against melees, (blind only works on ranged, right?), pathetic ranged defense, virtually no state defenses, and ridiculous HAM costs. Our moves are slow enough that we're probably outdamaged by pistols on low-armored targets, and our AP and damage types are limited enough that a rifleman will top us on highly armored targets. So what the heck am I supposed to offer? Blind and stun? My TKA friends can have something blinded, stunned, intimidated, and knocked down/dizzied by the time I get my second FA off.
I'm feeling not only vanilla, but ineffectual as well. And I'm not the only one who feels this way.
As it stands now, we've got the least beneficial knockdown by virtue of not having a dizzy and not being able to get off more than one or maybe two shots without stacking modifiers. In addition to this, we've got no melee defense, poor states to use against melees, (blind only works on ranged, right?), pathetic ranged defense, virtually no state defenses, and ridiculous HAM costs. Our moves are slow enough that we're probably outdamaged by pistols on low-armored targets, and our AP and damage types are limited enough that a rifleman will top us on highly armored targets. So what the heck am I supposed to offer? Blind and stun? My TKA friends can have something blinded, stunned, intimidated, and knocked down/dizzied by the time I get my second FA off.
I'm feeling not only vanilla, but ineffectual as well. And I'm not the only one who feels this way.
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