Carbineer Archive
Thread: What's so bad about a BH/Carbiner?
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Nadiel26
Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:19 am
#1
pistols have a large range of damage types as well as defenses. the laser carbine which is my personal fav and prob out best weapon isn't super in PvP because of the min-max distance. as of right now mind hitand stun are king in PvP. carbines have neither. stun is overrated i think but take someone that doesn't live for PvP and stun is a killer on them. the lack of defenses and 90% base comp really hurts our effectiveness in PvP. if you go carbineer you better get a nice acid carbine to take out PSGs
Brainplay
Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:43 am
#2
Nadiel26 wrote:
pistols have a large range of damage types as well as defenses. the laser carbine which is my personal fav and prob out best weapon isn't super in PvP because of the min-max distance. as of right now mind hitand stun are king in PvP. carbines have neither. stun is overrated i think but take someone that doesn't live for PvP and stun is a killer on them. the lack of defenses and 90% base comp really hurts our effectiveness in PvP. if you go carbineer you better get a nice acid carbine to take out PSGs
Believe it or not the elite is probably the better PvP carbine due to its high Min. damage. I've seen laser carbines consistently bounce 30's and 50's or damage off someone with high range defense and mitigation 3.
How does a krayt E-11 compare?
Aukuja
Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:21 am
#3
I totally agree with your point on the range of damage types of pistols, and that for me is the one issue that causes me pause with switching from MP to MC. Really though, I think and truly do believe that once combat revamp hits and the armor goes through a significant change that carbiner will be where it is at. Also add to the fact that the laser carbine (AP2) while energy (?) damage still penetrates armor so while the 90% compos will destroy us your still getting a one up since compos is only AP1. Against an unarmored opponent I believe that a laser carbine would be devastating. However the Geo pistol and DE10 are nice weapons albeit a bit difficult to find. Really though in the end I've always been an offensive BH and pistol just isn't putting out enough damage for my apetite. With sprayshot at MBH I can dish out 1k+ hits very quickly AND do all sorts of state effects. I can only imagine how powerfuly cripple shot and the area KD attacks would be coupled with Fire KD and sprayshot. (For those who love confusion shot.....sprayshot is just simply better)
I'm also far too much of an optimist having seen every patch ever released, to fool myself into believing that after rifleman and pistoler get 3-4 new weapons each, that carbiner will be far behind...better they take the time to make a nice looking carbine that does decent damage as a master cert that has AP2 than 3 POS weapons that do nothing. That's my take on it and I'm not even a carbiner yet, I sympathize with all of you who have been waiting for your carbines. I would also think that carbiner would be signficantly better on every level for PVE than pistoler. But please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again for the feedback.
Agricola1
Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:36 am
#4
You're correct i'm an mbh/mc, former mbh/mp. Pistols are great in pvp but don't cut it vs jedi. Carbineer doesn't need a new carbine and all the specials work well, carbines are much better in pve and a krayt laser carbine hurts jedi. Unbuffed pvp I can still win, what I like about carbineer is that due to HAM costs and a wide variety of specials and no mind pool shot you're forced to think in pvp.
Aukuja wrote:
I totally agree with your point on the range of damage types of pistols, and that for me is the one issue that causes me pause with switching from MP to MC. Really though, I think and truly do believe that once combat revamp hits and the armor goes through a significant change that carbiner will be where it is at. Also add to the fact that the laser carbine (AP2) while energy (?) damage still penetrates armor so while the 90% compos will destroy us your still getting a one up since compos is only AP1. Against an unarmored opponent I believe that a laser carbine would be devastating. However the Geo pistol and DE10 are nice weapons albeit a bit difficult to find. Really though in the end I've always been an offensive BH and pistol just isn't putting out enough damage for my apetite. With sprayshot at MBH I can dish out 1k+ hits very quickly AND do all sorts of state effects. I can only imagine how powerfuly cripple shot and the area KD attacks would be coupled with Fire KD and sprayshot. (For those who love confusion shot.....sprayshot is just simply better)
I'm also far too much of an optimist having seen every patch ever released, to fool myself into believing that after rifleman and pistoler get 3-4 new weapons each, that carbiner will be far behind...better they take the time to make a nice looking carbine that does decent damage as a master cert that has AP2 than 3 POS weapons that do nothing. That's my take on it and I'm not even a carbiner yet, I sympathize with all of you who have been waiting for your carbines. I would also think that carbiner would be signficantly better on every level for PVE than pistoler. But please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again for the feedback.
TAfirehawk
Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:14 am
#5
Brainplay wrote:
Nadiel26 wrote:
pistols have a large range of damage types as well as defenses. the laser carbine which is my personal fav and prob out best weapon isn't super in PvP because of the min-max distance. as of right now mind hitand stun are king in PvP. carbines have neither. stun is overrated i think but take someone that doesn't live for PvP and stun is a killer on them. the lack of defenses and 90% base comp really hurts our effectiveness in PvP. if you go carbineer you better get a nice acid carbine to take out PSGs
Believe it or not the elite is probably the better PvP carbine due to its high Min. damage. I've seen laser carbines consistently bounce 30's and 50's or damage off someone with high range defense and mitigation 3.
How does a krayt E-11 compare?
Against a PSG an Elite sucks, but the DXR6 has no problems. As we have discussed at great length in the past, if you are serious about PvP you will use a DXR6 just in case an opponent has a PSG.
BTW, using identical components an Elite and DXR6 come out with nearly the same stats 
c00kie
Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:38 am
#6
Well, I have done a lot of different combat templates in the game, not all, but a lot...
I did BH Pistols/Pistoleer and I did Pistoleer/Fencer, and just finsished my hella defense stacker template, Master TKA/Master Fencer/Pistol Tech line and 1 box of dodge.... I was a beast to hit... and it took a while to bring me down...
For damage output and raw power in PvP, BH/Pistoleer is insane... spamming eye shot is ok, but I would slam torso, then eye on a rifleman, and actually typically using stopping shot after that... it wasn't a mind attack, but with a geo, most people don't wear full stun on radiant, and stopping shot eats up normal armor with a good geo.
But I PvP in large groups more often than not, and nothing I have done yet seems to be super effective in large battles... just 1 on 1
So I decided to do this... b/c I really like to PvP....
Master Carbineer, BH 0/4/4/0, Pistol 0/0/4/3
This I think will do what I want. PvE I will be fairly useful... between the laser carbs med piercing and a nice dxr6 for high end stuff like the corvette and DWB, I should be ok.
PvP I have tools for both situations I often find myself in... in large groups the support of an accurate carbineer is uncanny. AoE KDs and AoE specials that land state effects are very nice... The Intimidation defense carbineers have I don't think is matched anywhere, and PvP = Intinidation if they close... and one on one, a Pistoleer can deal out a ton of damage with either a geo or a scatter...
Should prove fairly well balanced... though I will have to cary a barage of guns...
Aukuja
Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:16 pm
#7
I'm currently in Korea, with no access to SWG for about another week, so the numbers for speed and accuracy I post will probably be a few points off, please forgive me. Anyhow, I'm currently a Master Pistoler/Master Bounty Hunter. I do good in PVP but lukewarm at BEST in PVE. Since I like to mix up my gametime with a bit of both I'm going to become a Master BH/ Master Carbiner. Here are my thoughts though with a bit of force sensitivity added to it:
A Master BH/Master Carbiner will max out speed for carbines with no difficulty at all....at master of both accuracy is in the 200+ range, if you add force sensitivity to it you can have even MORE speed and more accuracy (+20 to each I believe)
So now you have a carbiner with 220+ accuracy without any food, lord knows with food it would approach 300 for accuracy, add in the /aim command and you should be able to start most duels with a nice fire/kd and sprayshot, afterwhich you could use crippleshot (i think...i've never been a MC but that seems to be the favorite attack)
The HAM costs are a beast...however buffed it shouldn't matter....if its a dire PVP situation, pop a muon, two brandies, a single canape, add in some damage food if you need it and your final choise (citrus if that's what tickles your fancy) and you should really feasibly be able to destroy any dodge mods any other profession has.
Last time I checked the stats, carbiner has a higher accuracy at MBH/MC than any other profession in the game, both before and after the combat revamp that should put us on the PVP map in more ways than one. Simply put a dodge stacker maxes out dodge at 125 i believe, accuracy doesn't max out and with the right foods you can have nearly 300 accuracy with carbines....is there something i'm missing that all the people complaing know? There's no amount of ranged def in the game that can break through that kind of accuracy. As another grin factor last time I checked I believe our accuracy while moving mods are actually HIGHGER than a pistolers. So for the lost defense add force sensitive ranged and melee defenses, to max out speed and accuracy add force sensitive ranged speed and accuracy, and for a bit of fun some force speeder ability to go faster on the racetracks.
Anyhow just a thought, I get back in about 8 days and will decide then wether to stay pistoler or move to carbiner.
Vonbekk
Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:30 pm
#8
you make a good point, BH and Carbineer is what i am. just BH carbs though.I am not master carbineer but got the BH 4.
Its awesome, really. I love it. Gives you a sense of power when you can take down a rancor before it can close to you. FKD, fullauto2, burst, fullautoarea. Nice action shots. So many spoecials makes combat fun. I was a swordsman, and it was spin or headhit3. thats it.
Our main PvP problem is not offense(cept againt jedi) but defense. If you can stack the pistoleer and rifleman def.
As for dodge, i believe it works independently of accuracy. As in once we hit, then get a dodge roll(like a save for you d&d folks) so higher acc won't affect it.
But you can hit almost guarnteed will kiting. which is nice. Altogther thge offensive capability of BH/Carb is limited only by weapon. Not saying we got bad weapons, cos we don't. we have the best lookin weapons in game. no contest.
The laser is a great carb. Mine is 398 max, high speed(like i care) and high ham(could be better). It cost me 20k. Thats a very good gun for a very good price.
But we only got 3 types, and the heat is hard to use in med/high PvE. Still, stick a stock and scope and it looks awesome. I reckon we will see a new carbine in the near future(months, not weeks).
things are good for me, and when i master, i will be truly HIGH offensive. Imagine cripple at the speed cap with a 530 laser on a KD opponet. lookin forward to that one
Its awesome, really. I love it. Gives you a sense of power when you can take down a rancor before it can close to you. FKD, fullauto2, burst, fullautoarea. Nice action shots. So many spoecials makes combat fun. I was a swordsman, and it was spin or headhit3. thats it.
Our main PvP problem is not offense(cept againt jedi) but defense. If you can stack the pistoleer and rifleman def.
As for dodge, i believe it works independently of accuracy. As in once we hit, then get a dodge roll(like a save for you d&d folks) so higher acc won't affect it.
But you can hit almost guarnteed will kiting. which is nice. Altogther thge offensive capability of BH/Carb is limited only by weapon. Not saying we got bad weapons, cos we don't. we have the best lookin weapons in game. no contest.
The laser is a great carb. Mine is 398 max, high speed(like i care
) and high ham(could be better). It cost me 20k. Thats a very good gun for a very good price. But we only got 3 types, and the heat is hard to use in med/high PvE. Still, stick a stock and scope and it looks awesome. I reckon we will see a new carbine in the near future(months, not weeks).
things are good for me, and when i master, i will be truly HIGH offensive. Imagine cripple at the speed cap with a 530 laser on a KD opponet. lookin forward to that one
JanuHull
Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:14 pm
#9
poking wrote:
master BH master Carbiner or BH carbines master carbineer is a waste of skillpoints in my opinion
If you have some speed tapes Bh carbines is useless
Heh, FireKD is worth BH Carbines III and the extra accuracy and speed are always a plus from IV, even if Confusion shot isn't.
MBH/MCarbineer isn't worth the time just for SprayShot.
Dra90n
Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:19 pm
#10
I like my template, with thaktillo and parwan I hardly have trouble with anyone other than def stackers, and CMs(unless I have a doctor of crouse).
Lao-Long Wong
MBH
galvatronicus
Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:52 pm
#11
Cons as Ihave experienced:
a. No defenses other than a ranged defense of about 50. Each attack against me basically hits.
b. Dont let the melee fighters in close, or you are done.
c. Dizzy /KD combo seems to work every single time against BH Carbineer
Pros as I have experienced:
a. Dont ever miss anything other than jedi with saberblock
b. A wide array of special attacks to control combat
c. Terrain negotiation for kiting (you dont need BH to get this, but you'll have it if you are a BH)
d. If you are a MBH you can take advantage of the outstanding pistol mods in the pistol column
Eldudorino
Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:38 pm
#12
The hard part is killing off melee stackers while managing to kite. If they reach you, you are dead.
Bhaal_Darkov
Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:51 pm
#13
poking wrote:
master BH master Carbiner or BH carbines master carbineer is a waste of skillpoints in my opinion
If you have some speed tapes Bh carbines is useless
On a per skill point basis, I agree MBH is not worth it JUST for sprayshot.
There isNO one special in the game worth that. But being MBH, MC, I can tell you it is excellent for taking down jedi. The states are landed with MUCH more frequency than with any other carbine special. +200 accuracy lets you burn right through those def stackers also. IF you are going to master BH, carbines are an excellent compliment.
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