CUEmu - Thread Posts

OnlyMaestro

Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:35 pm

Stun weapons are not the answer for us, why you might ask?

"But Griffin, they'll penetrate armor!"

So does our Laser Carbine. AP2 vs AR1 = Our weapon is one of the best for piercing armor.

The question is not stun weapons, is how those stun weapons are used -- The new Geonosian Pistol is not that good -- yes, it is a stun weapon, but Master Pistoleers using it in PvP, are ineffective. It's only when those Master Pistoleers grab the BH Pistols line for Eyeshot and speed cap are they truly effective.

Even then, stun isn't the issue as much as it is something else: Mind Damage.

This game is run by a single damage type, mind damage. Rifleman are so strong right now because their stun weapon has AP1, AND can be used in conjunction with Master Head Shot, taking 700 - 800 points from your mind every second it hits -- however, T21s firing Headshot take off similar damage as well.

So while many professions are calling for a stun weapon, that isn't the issue. The issue at hand is that at current, the damage and Combat system are messed up. Give us a stun weapon...nothing will change in PvP. Why?

Because our attacks do not hit the mind, and 37% stun armor, on top of 2500+ point buffs on the Health/Action we do hit will do nothing for us -- except give us a weapon that seldom makes sense to use.

There's your problem. The Buff and Armor System. These are the reasons Player vs Player are all out of whack -- giving us a Stun Carbine will not matter (even though Stun Carbines were used by Stormtroopers in the movies, AKA: "stun setting.")

I want Carbineers balanced for PvP, and we're getting their slowly...in a sense we're like Commando's, "Kings of killing the unbuffed." Then again, so are Pistoleers, Rifleman, Teras Kasi, Bounty Hunters, Swordsman, Fencers, Pikeman...

...mind damage is what it will always come down to. Stun weapons are great --when they target the mind. Stun weapons sureare fancy, when smashing your mind pool to bits.

In the end, our only hope for balance is that...The Combat Revamp...wherever it ran off too.

4Colonel Griffin Shade
4Combat Upgrade Tester Team Kick to Face
4Real men wear Marine Armor
4"Never stop fighting till the fight is done."
- Elliot Ness

Kevie

Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:09 pm

#2

5 stars

and you're right..... the only reason the geo pistol is useful in pvp is because only three of our weapons have AP1 and most have AP- and only really useful if used in conjunction with BH line for the speed cap and eye shot

i remember reading that mind-specific damage was going to be taken out with the combat rebalance...... hopefully when all is said and done all that comes down to master rifleman, carbineer,fencer, etc. will win by how well you play instead of what profession you are

Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see), Kettemoor
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put mustard in my #&$^ing sheets again I'm gonna kill you." - Tucker
-

wilibus

Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:30 pm

#3

If i was feeling vindictive i would have pulled my one-star ninja out of my pocket, but i am not a jerk. This arguement has been posted several times. The entire arguement will just lead to quick fixes and jury rigs which will be abused and then needed to be re-patched, and then we start all over again. Mind Damage hasn't really been a problem for me in PvP. Usually about half the time my mind pool is the one that puts me on my back, but what exactly are you looking for? A third pool identical to the health and action bars? I really like how Mind is so different from Health and Action. It gives a certain mortality to players, which is nice. Think of the matrix, without the mind the body is nothing.

Lawke Eislen | Carbine Extraordinaire | Imperial Pilot Ace

Avaris Eislen | Procurer of Combat Fashions | Kintan, Naboo

PyscoJuggalo

Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:51 pm

#4

Yes mind damage is a huge issue, but as a rifleman I still see this one problem:

Even if mind damage is healable people will still prefer to be a rifleman because we do 200 Damage after reductions in PVP were everyone else does 100. Though 100 more damage is miniscule in PVP(4-5K HAM Stats) it's still is more damage.

-I only believe the system will be balanced once Armor, Buffs, and Mind damage are addressed, these 3 factors make PVP a joke.

BTW Carbine does need a weapon were they get acess to a damage type that pistoleer and rifleman don't have acess to.

Pistoleer- has kenetic

Rifleman- has cold

Carbineers needs either an electric or blast carbine

I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.

OnlyMaestro

Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:11 pm

#5

I only made this arugment HERE because Carbineers have recently been calling for a Stun-based carbine, which won't fix anything.

Stun weapons aren't the problem, the problem is damage that can't be healed -- A Rifleman shooting you in the head doesn't make you dumb (mind power) it kills you (health based.)

That's the problem with the HAM system, it's not one type of damage, it's three -- balancing three vs one is a great concept...but not possible.

Btw...a Blast Carbine =Commando's would freak out...Electric though, that's an idea...but they say there's going to be "more weapons coming," so we'll see.

4Colonel Griffin Shade
4Combat Upgrade Tester Team Kick to Face
4Real men wear Marine Armor
4"Never stop fighting till the fight is done."
- Elliot Ness

Eryk

Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:14 pm

#6

I fully agree. That being said, I think a new weapon would be nice, just to have one.

Rifleman should be a great class, a powerclass, if you will. But not a "Crowd Control" class, and it seems like that's what it is. Let us handle the crowds, Riflemen take out the big targets, and pistoleers have a role that focuses on agility and accuracy. How complicated is it, SOE?

SOE Applicant: Here is my resume.
SOE Interviewer: It's half finished.
SOE Applicant: So are your products.
SOE Interviewer: You're hired.

- I support killing your Jedi, over and over.

Dragoon1500

Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:58 am

#7

a stun weapon may be nice.... but what carbineers really need is a weapon with a high minum like 200 and a nice speed like 2.3 or something that is cost efficient... and has ap2.... thats about it.... ooo and is it just me or is the area damage on the EE3 broken... cuz it says radius 3m so you would assume so .. but i guess not......

and one final note... mind damage can be healed

Lihpson

Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:20 am

#8

Dragoon1500 wrote:

and one final note... mind damage can be healed

Yeah, it can be healed, but you need stomach room or a CM to do so.

Anyways, I would like to see no heals in PvP, or while engaged in PvP combat. This would make ever pool targetable, but mind for the most part, would still be the most vulnerable of the pools, if you are buffed. I could see this causing some problems though, like you would almost have to be buffed to partake in PvP, and have armor on. Either way, something has to be done.

********************************************
Gihpson
Master of Polearms
Personal Motto: "The more the better!"
Theme Song: "Burnin Ring of (mind) Fire"!

OnlyMaestro

Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:35 am

#9

Anyone who uses the remark, "CM's can heal the mind...or use blue milk..." are greatly misinformed, or choose not to see the information stated to us from the Developers.

"Mind damage was never designed to be the deciding factor in combat." Yet it is the single bar that decides combat --

-- and if 50% of the time you're incapped by the Mind, that means 25% of the time you're incapped by Health, and 25% of the time incapped by Action. Creating a ration of 2:1 that mind damage will incap you vs Health or Action damage.

For a tri-Health/Action/Mind system, that throws the balance out of wack.

And 50% is a fib anyways, with good armor (80% range, and 2500pt buffs) incapping someone based on health is nigh-impossible...thus the recourse is mind damage from a Rifleman/CM/Eyeshot/Heavy Swordsman.

4Colonel Griffin Shade
4Combat Upgrade Tester Team Kick to Face
4Real men wear Marine Armor
4"Never stop fighting till the fight is done."
- Elliot Ness

SpungeBob

Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:35 am

#10

Blast Carbine = Grenade Launcher (Sweet, but I know it wont work.

)

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Shobo

Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:49 am

#11

If you really want a unique weapon for carbineer I would suggest asking for restraint, the commando can do blast and bounty hunters can do electricity. I don't know much about the brawler professions but I'm 90% sure that not one ranged class is able to do that type and I find it really annoying when I see stuff thats only vulnerable to restraint.

Haerb

Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:34 am

#12

Nobody has a Restraint weapon.

The only thing I've heard about Restraint is that it comes into play for Warcry, Panic Shot andstate effectrolls. But this is completely unfounded.

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Nathanielstarr

Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:20 pm

#13

The reason Laser Carbines are pretty much negated in PvP is because of ranged damage mitigation. The damage gets mitigated so low that they heal it over if buffed in a few seconds so you never make head way even if it is medium AP.

Why would every other profession have more damage types than us? We have heat, acid and energy that is it? Even pistols has more than that....and they are even giving riflemen a heat weapon now. So who are we the red headed step child? It's not like we are so uber that they need to tone us down!

Carbineer Archive

Thread: Stun Weapons...and the Carbineer (From a Master)