Carbineer Archive
Thread: I think Carb is the weakest of all the shooting professions
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ArchStanten
Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:41 pm
#1
Im sorry I don't see how thisprofession is any good. I will admit I am not a master yet, but I have mastered Pistol, Riffle, Commando and had the pistol and LLC line in BH. Right now im 2 2 2 4. Carb so far just cant compete with the aforementioned professions in terms of grinding in pve. When I was grinding out those other professions it was much faster and easier. With carb im doing no damage and im really slow. Furthermore, looking at what you get in terms of speed and damage as you move up the skill boxes isnt incourageing. At least with rifle once you hit master there was a huge difference it dosnt appear like there will be that kind of leap as a master carb tho. Do master Carbs get the one second speed cap like master riflemen regardless of weapon? Carb starts out really slow with really slow weapons to boot and you move awhole +5 in speed a skill box, wow big deal.Iwill admit i am a holo grinder but if a profession is good i stick with it for awhile for instance MTK. Master Carb appears like it wont be worth keeping one day. I understand if you have the BH line of carb it is a bit better but that dosnt say much for this profession. I would like to be wrong but so far it just seems really weak. I cant see myself ever inflictingthe quick and heavy damage with carb as i did with Master Rifle, Master Commando or do now with MTK. I hope im wrong.
Hobgrob
Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:25 pm
#2
Hey I was a holo grinder too, until my holo told me master architect. I know it's easy but I was originally a artisan/DE before I started hologrinding and it helped me see the light and become a combat character. I kept TKM, I kept Carbineer and am almost done grinding out duelist. But I still can't damage people with full comp and buffs.
My only complaint is weak pvp power. Unless I'm fighting somone with no armor/buffs my best special becomes /burstrun. They just regen faster than I can damage!
Anyways, I think speed is only one of the problems. We can't punch through comp effectively andhigh hamcost is a huge problem too.
Well, I guess I like the +25 ranged defense and ranged damage mitigation 3 at the top.
israiley
Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:59 pm
#3
i've been thinking about ham costs through different professions and cant figure out why they gave the ones they did higher or lower costs, carbineer in particular. did someone actually come to the conclusion that giving the slowestranged profession in the game the highest ham costs was a good idea?
colemats
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:58 am
#4
I'd say the HAM costs kinda go hand in hand with the fact that Carbines attack the Energy bar, seeing as how Pikeman suffer from them to. I'd agree that Carbineers don't hold a candle to Rifleman damage wise (although speed is a larger variable now that Rifleman are being capped at 3.0) but I'd take Master Carbineer over Master Pistoleer. Unless of coarse the Pistoleer was an Expert Bounty Hunter but over all, Pistols are more broken than Carbines. The advantage Carbines (and Polearms) have is that they get all the fun tricks. They get AoE Dizzy/Stun/KD etc... Although they can't punch a hole through something like a Swordsman or Rifleman, they can Knockdown a dozen Tuskens with one move or similarly a Faction fight. However, Carbineer has no where to go but up, where as classes like Rifleman have more of a chance of taking a beating. I mean Carbineers have yet to get a single cool new weapon and don't even have a special in the Master Box, all in all though, if you just compare abilities to abilities, I'd take Carbines over the others in a lot of ways. You say you've been the other Ranged classes right? You should then know that as JUST a Pistoleer pretty much all you have is Fan Shot/Stopping Shot/Body Shot 2/Pistol Whip and all rifleman have is essentially Conceal and Blow Your Ass Away Shot. Where as Carbineers have Charge Shot 1&2, Wild Shot 1&2, FFA 1&2, Scatter Shot 1&2, Burst Shot 1&2, Cripple Shot, and the Leg/Action Shots. So do they shoot fast? NO! Do they do a lot of damage fast? NO! Can they put my ass on the deck with a dizzy/stun? YES! Boba Fett didn't use Pistols or Rifles for a reason gentleman (-_^) and it's not just because Carbines look cooler. I'd say that at the moment, yes they are the weakest but them (and Pikeman) easily have the potential to be the strongest.
CairnTrenor
Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:26 am
#5
colemats wrote:I'd say the HAM costs kinda go hand in hand with the fact that Carbines attack the Energy bar, seeing as how Pikeman suffer from them to. I'd agree that Carbineers don't hold a candle to Rifleman damage wise (although speed is a larger variable now that Rifleman are being capped at 3.0) but I'd take Master Carbineer over Master Pistoleer. Unless of coarse the Pistoleer was an Expert Bounty Hunter but over all, Pistols are more broken than Carbines. The advantage Carbines (and Polearms) have is that they get all the fun tricks. They get AoE Dizzy/Stun/KD etc... Although they can't punch a hole through something like a Swordsman or Rifleman, they can Knockdown a dozen Tuskens with one move or similarly a Faction fight. However, Carbineer has no where to go but up, where as classes like Rifleman have more of a chance of taking a beating. I mean Carbineers have yet to get a single cool new weapon and don't even have a special in the Master Box, all in all though, if you just compare abilities to abilities, I'd take Carbines over the others in a lot of ways. You say you've been the other Ranged classes right? You should then know that as JUST a Pistoleer pretty much all you have is Fan Shot/Stopping Shot/Body Shot 2/Pistol Whip and all rifleman have is essentially Conceal and Blow Your Ass Away Shot. Where as Carbineers have Charge Shot 1&2, Wild Shot 1&2, FFA 1&2, Scatter Shot 1&2, Burst Shot 1&2, Cripple Shot, and the Leg/Action Shots. So do they shoot fast? NO! Do they do a lot of damage fast? NO! Can they put my ass on the deck with a dizzy/stun? YES! Boba Fett didn't use Pistols or Rifles for a reason gentleman (-_^) and it's not just because Carbines look cooler. I'd say that at the moment, yes they are the weakest but them (and Pikeman) easily have the potential to be the strongest.
Just curious, where did the devs ever say rifles were getting capped at 3 seconds? I agree however that Carbineers get alot more diverse specials compared to the other ranged proffesions, but I wouldn't say Carbineers are the weakest, pistoleers are worse of IMO.
Bermag
Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:30 am
#6
If you are grinding I don't think that Carbineer is much worse than other professions. The big difference comes when you are a master. Both Pistoleer and Rifleman hit speed cap. A riflemam just need +5 rifle speed attachments and they can fire any weapons at speed cap because of the speed formula (weapon speed x (1-speed skill/100) means that with 100 or above you fire any weapons at speed cap)
IMO, Carbineer has the correct speed cap the other have not. I think that weapon speed should be important for all professions. I am 99.9% sure this will be changed in the future.
I have also seen posts about raising speed cap for rifleman to 3.0 nut not sure if it comes form a dev post or not. Think that would be the right thing to do.
Pistoleer has a big advantage over Carbineer that it is much cheaper to get an uber gun (need 4 krayt tissues for a Laser, 5 for Elite and 6 for DRX while you only need 3 for republic blaster)
IMO, Carbineer has the correct speed cap the other have not. I think that weapon speed should be important for all professions. I am 99.9% sure this will be changed in the future.
I have also seen posts about raising speed cap for rifleman to 3.0 nut not sure if it comes form a dev post or not. Think that would be the right thing to do.
Pistoleer has a big advantage over Carbineer that it is much cheaper to get an uber gun (need 4 krayt tissues for a Laser, 5 for Elite and 6 for DRX while you only need 3 for republic blaster)
TAfirehawk
Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:53 am
#7
I am doing Pistoleer/Smuggler right now and Carbineer is not harder at all. I see you are 2224 and that is part of the problem, you should at least have been at 321X instead. As you have pointed out, you need speed....
Of course I got Krayt Carbines before I hit Master so I had some help in leveling 
Oh and I had some Carbine Speed attachments too
Tactics, tactics......and money doesn't hurt either 
Arafel_
Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:40 pm
#8
colemats wrote:
I'd say that at the moment, yes they are the weakest but them (and Pikeman) easily have the potential to be the strongest.
this is probably the biggest reason why we won't get much more in the way of dev love, with our specials it would be rediculously easy to accidentally make us way overpowered.. just look at bh carbines 4 + master carbineer = walking death machine (seriously since i finished this template i've only met once person i couldn't beat.. and that was only because she had +87 KD defense before taking food)
VinBlanc
Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:05 am
#9
Hey Iebas, just as I am toying with going back to carbines, I see you are going smuggler/pistoleer. Does that mean you don't need your carbines now? 
TAfirehawk
Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:17 am
#10
I experience the many avenues of enjoyment in SWG via 3 accounts.......Carbineer will always be a part of at least one of them. I may drop Master Carbineer when I pickup BH, but that won't be for awhile since I am enjoying CH so much.
Synkharra
Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:10 am
#11
The true test to any combat profession is how you are able to perform UNBUFFED, and with that said let me tell you ( as you all well know ), it sucks. I duel my brother alot to test and practice specials for PvP and in almost every scenario he wins 9 out of 10 times because of me incapping myself. I can get of 3 to 4 specials and then I'm done ( incapp city ). That alone tells me that carbines are need of some serious loving. If a profession is only viable when buffed that is sad and currently that is the state of using the Carbines.
inoch
Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:48 am
#12
I think what we really need to do is look at the definition of what each weapon type is. Pistol is a pistol no doubt about it and should shoot as fast as someone can pull a trigger. Nice and light good accuracy up close. To me a carbine is some kind of semi auto weapon like an Uzi or M16 type rifle. It should fire in short bursts quickly and do some kind of medium damage with good accuracy. I mean howaccurate do you have to be with a gun that shootsin bursts of concentrated gunfire.The rifle should be like a sniper rifle. Very powerful but slow firing one shot at a time. How many times have you seen a sniper rifle fire at 1 sec intervals. It just didnt happen. Let alone strafe shot. I think that should have been reserved for carbines. I mean point the gun, pull and hold the trigger and sweep. That's how i think the guns should be.
Inoch,
Master AS/Carbineer/TKA of Wanderhome
VinBlanc
Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:00 pm
#13
I guess it may be a good test to see how a combat profession is when not buffed. The reason that this is true for me is that when iI start PvP I am nicely buffed but find very quickly usually that I am dead and cloned and now unbuffed 
I think I may be doing something wrong
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