Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Jedi and Crystals Economy needs a fix on this one.
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Kalvin87
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:11 pm
#1
Either someone needs to fix tuning, or something needs to be done about the outrageous price of crystals in SWG.
Most of the population doesn't even have any USE for them, yet players feel the need to jack up the prices, and force other players to pay a crapload.
Now, I understand this shouldn't have been a problem, but with tuning like it is, it's made the economy really whacked.
Because of poor tuning, players need to buy more crystals, therefore, the players that sell them can jack up the price for individual crystals, because Jedi need more of them so badly.
So, I ask players, PLEASE lower your prices (at least on everything up to Premium) and, please have some decency to sell a player something that they need (and that you most likely can't even use) for a good price.
And I'm asking the devs to do something about it!
Most of the population doesn't even have any USE for them, yet players feel the need to jack up the prices, and force other players to pay a crapload.
Now, I understand this shouldn't have been a problem, but with tuning like it is, it's made the economy really whacked.
Because of poor tuning, players need to buy more crystals, therefore, the players that sell them can jack up the price for individual crystals, because Jedi need more of them so badly.
So, I ask players, PLEASE lower your prices (at least on everything up to Premium) and, please have some decency to sell a player something that they need (and that you most likely can't even use) for a good price.
And I'm asking the devs to do something about it!
Phaelyn
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:32 pm
#2
Kalvin87 wrote:
Either someone needs to fix tuning, or something needs to be done about the outrageous price of crystals in SWG.
Most of the population doesn't even have any USE for them, yet players feel the need to jack up the prices, and force other players to pay a crapload.
Now, I understand this shouldn't have been a problem, but with tuning like it is, it's made the economy really whacked.
Because of poor tuning, players need to buy more crystals, therefore, the players that sell them can jack up the price for individual crystals, because Jedi need more of them so badly.
So, I ask players, PLEASE lower your prices (at least on everything up to Premium) and, please have some decency to sell a player something that they need (and that you most likely can't even use) for a good price.
And I'm asking the devs to do something about it!
I hate to sound this way - But come on now.. 'Because of poor tuning" - OK. Because of bad experimentation, I am not able to get anywhere NEAR the amount of things I can sell. But I go on to the next thing, and try again. That is the very nature of having to perfect a process by yourself. As far as the cost goes - Shop around, or loot crystals yourself. They fall VERY rapidly in places like Fort Tusken (personal best, 5 in one buff) or against Hutt Expeditionary Forces on Yavin IV (Personal best 15 in one buff).
Remember, nobody held a blaster to your head and said "Become a Jedi!" YOU chose to seek the power, and limitations, of that Profession. But now that you are there, you're complaining because people want to sell you items you can loot yourself, and EVEN want the Devs to make the Tuning process to be without flaw.
If I was to paraphrase your thread, it would read like this:
"I'm a Jedi, and people won't give away Crystals. I need a lot of Crystals because I can't Tune them well. You NORMAL characters can't use them, so why keep them from me? AND, I want the game designers to make my life easy."
Pawlin
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:38 pm
#3
Rather than asking sellers to charge less, maybe the buyers should pay less.
Derku
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:44 pm
#4
Pawlin wrote:
Rather than asking sellers to charge less, maybe the buyers should pay less.
Pawlin has a point. The jedi pay these prices. If the jedi want the prices to drop they need to stop buying them at this price. But honestly jedi should be capable of getting their own crystals. So either pay the prices, boycott the sellers, or loot your own crystals.
Secondly how are the devs going to control the price of one item type?
ana-mo-cara
Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:16 pm
#5
Actually I end up destroying crystals. I generally dislike jedi, and am tired of the lines where did you loot these. I need only the best whats the condition on and on.
I can see where you are going. Too many items in the game are going for more then they should, but this is not limited to jedi crystals. If I sell a crystal I am looking to get money to buy an armor, or a enhancement for my profession. So I am sorry I got to charge you more so I can pay the creds for what I need.
The earlier posters are right you need to loot your own crystals. You got to start sidestepping the issue yourself. Go kill tuskens with your alt or the lost aqualish cave on talus. I on average with my bh would pick up three crystals in a buff session. They are not hard to get.
As a weaponsmith I feal your angst I wanted krayt tissues, but I couldnt get them myself. When I went to the trade forum to buy krayt tissues. The prices were outrageous. So my recourse was to camp the woolamander temple, and trade with a krayt hunter. He gave me my tissues I gave him bone shards.
There are usually work arounds in the game. Most prices are too high. Thankfully the solo mission nerf seems to be reverseing the trend. Players are starting to reduce prices, and soon crystals might be back around 30 or 40k a crystal which is reasonable, and the low level looted crystals around six k on the bizarre. What aint helping is jedis getting greedy and hoarding crystals. I have met jedi that brag about haveing 200 crystals in storage.
HardwiredXMan
Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:52 pm
#6
This problem is a bit more unique than any other item in the game.
First the only jedi that can afford to hunt for thier own crystals are those jedi that have a completed template, very close to a completed templete or havn't invested little to no skill points into jedi so they are able to continue to have 2 master elite normal professions.....bottom line is that no jedi wants to gain visibility if they have not completed their template. So while our hunting for crystals and bh and his gank squad comes along and hands you upwards of 500k xp loss, that will take you 100x to get the xp back compared to the time it took for a BH and his squad to take it away from you....so if this happens you'll end up probably needing more crystals for the extra grind time you'll have to put up with.....it's not like you'll ever stop needing crystals anyway....but the extra work and time alone is enough to deter people from hunting crystals with their jedi.
Second, the only other way a jedi can hunt for crystals themselves is to use their alt.....but then that thinking limits a jedi in what he/she can do with their alt.....it becomes a problem where if you want to hunt for crystals with your alt so you don't risk visibility with your jedi, you MUST make your alt a viable combat template......this also means your alt is limited to a low number of templates....because you are not gonna hunt NS with a pistoleer or carbineernor would you hunt krayts with those two templates.....so you are limited in the professions you can use.....then you also deprive yourself the ability to make an entertainer or crafter. bottom line is that our alts should not be limited to a handful of professions just because we need crystals for our jedi.
Third, The tuning process does make buying crystals a wealthy mans game. If you are not a jedi but selling crystals for 4mil, 5mil you have no idea how expensive that is for a jedi. here's what happens when everyone sells crystals for millions each and a jedi doesn't hunt for crystals.
a non-jedi is selling his premium crystals for 5 million. Jedi buys it, tunes it and it comes out to be 3/3 or worse 0/0.......that crystal is no good (not even for a novice lightsaber jedi on the jedi grind). So the jedi must go out and get another crystal in which he will probably have to spend another 5 million or so. Now if the jedi continues to get bad tunes on these crystals, he has to continue to keep buying crystals in search for a decent or great tune. Then depending on what level jedi the person is, they will need more than one crystal for their sabers.....so once again they need to buy more crystals.
Now if the process keeps going on and on and lets say for argument that the jedi gets really unlucky and gets8 bad tunes from all those cyrstals he buys....well, the jedi has spent 40 million credits on those crystals that are worthless. Just think of this as a non-jedi professions spending 40 mil for the cdef pistol you get when you first create a character.....think of how you would feel....that's how jedi feel....they might as well run around throwing money away to everyone they see.
Now in defense of the non-jedi selling these high priced crystals.....it was the early jedi unlockers that had millions and (probably from selling rare loot) that spent so much time just to get a jedi, they didn't want to spend about half that time to go hunt for crystals (with such poor tuning results most of the time).....so they decided to get crystals the quick way....buy them.....then in order for them to be sure they can get the crystals for themsleves, they payed outrageous prices.....the non-jedi communtiy saw this as a way to make money really fast instead of doing missions for weeks on end......now everyone hunts for crystals for the sole purpose to sell them to some wealthy jedi.....but the non-jedi fail to realized that these days, it cost a jedi hundreds of millions just to get their jedi and the majority of jedi these days don't have millions.....I'm a jedi myself and not even buying crystals from anyone, my bank account is now less than 800k.....3 months ago, my bank account was double figure millions.....
So the whole point of my post is saying that jedi are the ones who made prices shoot through the roof like they have and since money is starting to become a problem and a jedi can't go hunt 45k janta missions anymore to get 5 million credits in a day or two.....jedi want to cry about the prices that they set the standard for. However, it's not the veteran jedi who's crying about it....it's the newly post pub 9/10 unlockers that are crying about it because they didn't set the standard.
Now half of it all is just unprepared jedi....the ones that wanted jedi so bad and only had thier eyes set on being a cool dude walking around with a lightsaber, robe and displaying some force powers. The real jedi, the ones that truely understand what it means to be a jedi came prepared in one way or another.
They either saved millions so they can buy crystals, hunted and saved all their crystals before they got jedi or sacrifice their alts or jedi to hunt their own crystals.
The biggest problem though is that a lot of jedi are starting to see (by the standard they set), that non-jedi actually control the progression of jedi. Crystals are the one and only resource that a jedi needs to advance....no crystals, you cannot grind jedi xp....it's the key to all of a jedi's progress. Since the non-jedi seemingly are rasing the prices slowly but surely on premium crystals mostly, they effectively are starting to control the jedi indirectly.
no other profession is limited in this way......no other person can control the advancement of a non-jedi combat profession.....you can loot weapons if WS don't make any (in some cases legendary loot is out there).....Crafters don't need to buy resources or need any help from any outside influence....they can harvest their own resources.
The point here is that the non-jedi professions don't suffer from a major disadvantage as visibility....what if there was a system in place that made crafters lose 100k xp based on a principle related to something like visibility.....that would be a major problem for crafters and other players would start to control other individuals advancement throughout their grind.
THat's the problem with high priced crystals....also the fact that money is no longer coming into the game as fast as it used to (some still does but nowhere near what it used to be).....as long as everyone keeps clinging to the old principles of selling things in the game, this will continue to be a problem. THe excuse that so and so wants to pay me 8 million for my crystal so I'll charge 8mil for all my crystals is just outright greedy. That 8mil was the exception, not the rule.
The final thing about all of this is that too highly priced loot actually hurts the balance of the game...it forces people to seek more and more money just so they can afford the stuff they need....then the rich become richer, the poor get even more poor and the middle class get as poor as the poor are.....it's Rich, then poor....there's no inbetween in this game.
I think the one thing that can stop high priced crystals is that since the only players in the game that crystals mean anything to are jedi and that crystals are the sole tool a jedi needs to continue playing his/her jedi, only jedi should be allowed to get crystals as loot drops. no other player should control how or when a jedi can advance...indirectly, selling high priced crystals that a jedi can't afford is in effect doing such (to an extent...the alternative is gain visibility).....I mean the devs already made it so a tuned crystal can't be traded and used by another jedi....that was a way to keep the market down onsay a jedi tuning a 50/50 crystal and auction it off for 100 million credits....Non-jedi have to realize that no matter what quality a crystal is, when tuning comes into play all crystals are equal....the only difference is that better quality ones have a higher chance of getting good or great tunes.....we as the players can't put a price on probability...but we actually are by charging 5 million for a premium crystal.
Anyway, this is what everyone has to think about when buying or selling crystals.....it's not as simple as "go hunt your own crystals" or "pay what the seller is asking".........just remember, when all the other professions cry about 5 jedi showing up somewhere owning everything and causing other known problems like CTD.....Remember how you still force those very same jedi to pay you upwards of 100 million in credits for the one thing that makes jedi what they are.....a lot of those jedi remember what it took to get their status and have no regard for non-jedi professions.....it's kind of like a payback mentality......Theres a reason behind every action....this may be some backlash from high priced crystals...but I'm merely assuming this....but were all human and any human is capable of all things regardless of their character.....
Phaelyn
Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:34 am
#7
OK, since you left a nicely detailed post, I won't quote in entirety - And hopefully we won't get lost in the flow.
I understand and sympathize with the plight of a Jedi. I truly do. It must be very hard to try and work through your profession whilst taking a hide and seek mentality. However, the statement that XP loss or not wanting to waste thier Alt's professions doesn't wash. Firstly, no matter what publish your Jedi comes from - You chose the challenge. Perhaps not with open eyes, but accepted it nonetheless. You now know that you risk XP loss by being seen - But that is a risk associated with your Profession. Perhaps the Devs have placed far too strict a restriction with the amount of XP loss, but the purpose is to attempt to keep the Jedi as they SHOULD be - very rare. So, barring using your Jedi to hunt for himself due to XP loss possibilities - Can you more fully explain why you wouldn't want to use an Alt to hunt Crystals? Remember, many of us do not know the abilities and/or restrictions of this secondary character you have been granted. To US, it is another character that can be fully developed. It to US, the non-Jedi, can become a BH to hunt opposing Jedi -Or a Master Doctor to earn moeny through buffing -Or to template up to a crystal hunter. Is there something we don't know? Is it a situation where your Jedi MUST be with the alt somehow? And in addition, what's to stop from building the Alt to go stockpile hordes of Crystals, and then drop a profession or 2 to become what the Jedi needs as back up? All I can see is A) An unwillingness to take the time needed to train several times over or B) Want special treatment.
Your statement that "bottom line is that our alts should not be limited to a handful of professions just because we need crystals for our jedi." again does not wash, for you sir have been GIVEN a 2nd character for FREE - Something we are not given. My contention that you chose to be a Jedi is still in effect - You have the choice as well to treat your Alt the same way. If your desire is Crystals - Make your Alt a gatherer. The fact that it is not as fun as you may wantit to be is an off-shoot of your career choice, and not through my potential crystal sales. (For the record, I have never charged more than 60K for a crystal, but that's not pertinent to the discussion)
**I think the one thing that can stop high priced crystals is that since the only players in the game that crystals mean anything to are jedi and that crystals are the sole tool a jedi needs to continue playing his/her jedi, only jedi should be allowed to get crystals as loot drops.**
I disagree with this as well. Crystals DO mean something to other players aside from Jedi. They make wonderful decorations. And Pearls are a mark ofachievement - "Look what I was able to do!" - Remove the ability for US to get these items, and you remove several dimensions from the game for everyone BUT Jedi. The fault is not with the Loot drop, the fault is with the Crystals being the only needed tool. To me, it's a sign of the designers short-sightedness that you were tied to this specific loot. Jedi are not ALL about making a Lightsaber - They are the "Defenders of Justice throughout the Galaxy". Many of the things we learn from the movies is that a Jedi learns to adapt his powers a number of ways - And none of them really involve crafting the lightsaber, EXCEPT for it was one thing a Jedi must do to become a Knight.
Finally.. **a lot of those jedi remember what it took to get their status and have no regard for non-jedi professions.....it's kind of like a payback mentality......Theres a reason behind every action....this may be some backlash from high priced crystals...but I'm merely assuming this....but were all human and any human is capable of all things regardless of their character.....** First off, I happen to have had this Jedi Gang Bang happen around me. Perma Overt Dark Jedi like to flock together at starports and gank Overts as they come out of the port. Their choice, and hey, more power to em. However, AGAIN going back to Jedi as the movies define, the Force is not used for Attack, but defense - A player playing a Jedi as an attacker should be made to lose XP as well. It would tie more into the GCW at least that way. On the flip side, the system should ALSO not be based on Visiblity, but MISuse of your powers. A BH should never see you on the terminals unless you have done something worthy of being included. For Light Jedi, this would include initiating attacks, killing a member of their own faction or killing a BH. (They protect their own, after all) For Dark jedi (And I do SO hate this term - there are NO Dark Jedi - only those that have turned to the Dark Side - they need their own title) it would include Killing a member of their own faction, killing a Light Jedi, or killing a BH. I specify killing simply because it is against the beliefs as laid out to waste life - it's what feeds the Force. For some reason, this makes far more sense to me than being penalized for learning your craft.
But on the whole, you are correct - Crystal prices are insane, no matter WHO caused the spike in price.
GlargTheKelfn
Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:22 am
#8
1) crystal prices are supply and demand. nothing to fix here.
2) being a jedi is not supposed to be easy, obtaining jedi materials is not easy either.
bottom line
rices are what they are because items sell for that. nothing i s going to change as long as the demand is there
2) being a jedi is not supposed to be easy, obtaining jedi materials is not easy either.
bottom line
rices are what they are because items sell for that. nothing i s going to change as long as the demand is there
darmokVtS
Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:02 am
#9
Kalvin87 wrote:
So, I ask players, PLEASE lower your prices (at least on everything up to Premium)
I can't do that, lowering the price for crystals that I find even more would mean that I have to pay Jedi for taking the crystals
.All crystals that I find go for free to the Jedi-characters in my guild, maybe you should find yourself a guild where the members help each other a bit more
?
wyrwulf
Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:18 am
#10
The problem with crystals is people are willing to pay high prices for them.
Example
Player (A) how much is this crystal worth.
Player (B) 1mil
Player (C) 2 mil
Player (D) ill give you 10 mil for it now.
Player (A) sold.
This is the problem with alot of things in the game not just crystals.
Look at the new posters they are selling as much as a million credits but they drop like crazy if you just go looking for them, some people just dont want to take the time to hunt them for whatever reason so they buy them.
Cafa
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:37 am
#11
I've actually seen many good and fair crystals tune better than premiums. Personally, I have a problem with that. Somewhat like false advertising from the loot department.
But, seriously, color crystal fetch maybe 50k now, damage crystals NOT from nightsister elders don't bring much more than that on Tempest.
Fivo Asia
Message Edited by Cafa on 01-20-2005 08:38 AM
Pawlin
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:07 am
#12
Do the 'good' crystals only drop off certain MOBs? I've looted a couple dozen of them of various colors as a less than master pistoleer but I don't know how good they are.
If you are a crafter then you should be able to afford to buy crystals. If you are a combat person then you can hunt your own.If you are an entertainer then .. um..
Staveeno
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:26 am
#13
Getting sick of seeing these stupid topics, go take economics and be quiet. Law of supply and demand here is plain and simple, More Jedis want crystals than there are people looting them. Not too hard to figure out.
Message Edited by Staveeno on 01-21-2005 09:20 AM
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