Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Thank the Force for vendor seach! but its still not enough...

Baidak
Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:51 am
#1

YES! Thank the Living Force for vendor search! Already I have seen several vendors stabilize thier prices. I am on corbantis, and am not sure how well this is going on other galaxies, but it could be better.... im not saying for the devs to interfere either. this is something the players need to do.


I admit... im not the best crafter in the world. Artisan 4/4/4/2, Architect 3/4/0/1. that isnt great, compared to the number of masters ive seen, but i have spent many hours refining this idea... and im not stupid either.


This is the idea, generally. I am still open to ideas.


1. The different crafters form an unofficial guild, not unlike the guilds of the middle ages.


2. The guilds form councils, with the council members chosen at a meeting of the members.


3. The councils set prices, but the price will depend on several factors.




I LOVE KIESHA ELRICAN! MAY HER BEAUTY GRACE THE GALAXIE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS!

Artisan 4/4/4/4 Master
Architect 4/4/4/4 Master
Merchant 4/4/4/4 Master
Imp Pilot 3/3/3/2

Love ya Kiesha
Baidak
Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:29 am
#2

sorry about the double post everyone. thats what you get when you try to tab. and since i didnt finish the post, heres the rest.


Let me repost the things ive written.



1. The different crafters form an unofficial guild, not unlike the guilds of the middle ages.


2. The guilds form councils, with the council members chosen at a meeting of the members.


3. The councils set prices, but the price will depend on several factors.

a. Quality of the item

b. Level of the item (how skilled you must be to use it)

c. Amount of cost to the crafter (resource cost forlarge house vs. wood staff)


4. The councils will form malls offering many vendors for one crafting branch. i.e., an architect mall, a weaponsmith mall, etc.


5. The guild will hold elections for council members every month.


6. The council will consist of 10 members.


7. A council member does not have to be a master, but he must be working towards it.


8. The leader of the guild must be a master.


9. The guild members will pay dues on a weekly basis.


10. Any guild member who does not pay the dues two weeks in a row without a valid excuse, that can be verified, will be kicked out of the guild.


11. The amount of the dues owed will be determined by the council.


12. Any player whose prices go against the guild will be kicked out.




This is all I can think of at the moment. lets make it work guys!


and remember, you dont have to join these unofficial guilds. they will not be pa's, and if you dont like it, go independant.





I LOVE KIESHA ELRICAN! MAY HER BEAUTY GRACE THE GALAXIE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS!

Artisan 4/4/4/4 Master
Architect 4/4/4/4 Master
Merchant 4/4/4/4 Master
Imp Pilot 3/3/3/2

Love ya Kiesha
MDEUK
Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:44 am
#3

That doesn't need the Devs - if you want to form a cartel to set prices then you can do that right now.


However, this is a player-driven economy that reflects the real world economy, and so you would NEVER be able to get everyone to participate, and so some people will always under undercut your prices making the cartel ineffective.


Furthermore, some people will always be better at marketing and will command higher prices - no amount of coordination will make them align their prices with other.


Basic economics!
bluejanus
Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:49 pm
#4

Price fixing is generally opposed by crafters.





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
Baidak
Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:37 am
#5

When did I call it a cartel? And its not to fix prices, its to stop gross differences in prices, and to stabilize the economy into a good system. Why can i buy a CDEF rifle for 3000 credits, and then go and buy a better one for 100 on the baazar? Im not saying this is a price controlling mega corperation that takes advantage of the players, its a friendly organization of willing crafters who want to see their goods sold. it also makes it easier for the players, even with the vendor search. Granted, this idea could be abused, but it shouldnt be. odds are, it wont even be used, because no one is willing to commit.



Prove me wrong, citizens! join with me in this grand idea! email [email protected] or email Baidak Darkcloud on the corbantis server. if you are interested in starting one of these on another server, let me know!



I LOVE KIESHA ELRICAN! MAY HER BEAUTY GRACE THE GALAXIE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS!

Artisan 4/4/4/4 Master
Architect 4/4/4/4 Master
Merchant 4/4/4/4 Master
Imp Pilot 3/3/3/2

Love ya Kiesha
Baidak
Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:40 am
#6

read the other thread anyway it has the full idea. i accidentaly posted it twice and updated the other one




I LOVE KIESHA ELRICAN! MAY HER BEAUTY GRACE THE GALAXIE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS!

Artisan 4/4/4/4 Master
Architect 4/4/4/4 Master
Merchant 4/4/4/4 Master
Imp Pilot 3/3/3/2

Love ya Kiesha
Baidak
Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:44 am
#7


sorry about the double post everyone. thats what you get when you try to tab. and since i didnt finish the post, heres the rest.


Let me repost the things ive written.



1. The different crafters form an unofficial guild, not unlike the guilds of the middle ages.


2. The guilds form councils, with the council members chosen at a meeting of the members.


3. The councils set prices, but the price will depend on several factors.

a. Quality of the item

b. Level of the item (how skilled you must be to use it)

c. Amount of cost to the crafter (resource cost forlarge house vs. wood staff)


4. The councils will form malls offering many vendors for one crafting branch. i.e., an architect mall, a weaponsmith mall, etc.


5. The guild will hold elections for council members every month.


6. The council will consist of 10 members.


7. A council member does not have to be a master, but he must be working towards it.


8. The leader of the guild must be a master.


9. The guild members will pay dues on a weekly basis.


10. Any guild member who does not pay the dues two weeks in a row without a valid excuse, that can be verified, will be kicked out of the guild.


11. The amount of the dues owed will be determined by the council.


12. Any player whose prices go against the guild will be kicked out.




This is all I can think of at the moment. lets make it work guys!


and remember, you dont have to join these unofficial guilds. they will not be pa's, and if you dont like it, go independant.



I LOVE KIESHA ELRICAN! MAY HER BEAUTY GRACE THE GALAXIE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS!

Artisan 4/4/4/4 Master
Architect 4/4/4/4 Master
Merchant 4/4/4/4 Master
Imp Pilot 3/3/3/2

Love ya Kiesha
Flatfingers
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:45 am
#8

Baidak, thanks for taking the time to develop your idea. It never hurts to rethink how any game system is working.


Having said that, I'm afraid I'm forced to agree with the other responses you've seen here, and for three reasons.


1. First of all,as MDEUK pointed out, the idea is unlikely to have enough people agree to it for it to be effective.


2.I don't support the idea of "setting prices" in any fashion because history suggests that this results in artificially raising priceshigherthan would be the case if prices were agreed on by buyers and sellers in a free market. That's economically inefficient.


3. Finally, although you cited medieval guilds as an example, you didn't go far enough. Although the guild system was originally a fairly effective mechanism for improving product quality and transportation security, the power of controlling a market was quickly corrupted. For example, the Hanseatic League was organized to combat Danish pirate activity that was disrupting trade. It wasso good at this thatLeague membersquickly became recognized throughout northwestEurope as the guardians of trade, andthe prices of goods generally fell as trade security lowered costs.


But that much power was too tempting; League members couldn't resist using it to establish themselves as the only winners. (Besides, lower prices meant less profit... so why not use one's trade power to force prices higher to make more profit?)Within a hundred years the Leaguehad degenerated into a "price-fixing cartel" that imposed artificiallyhigh prices on goods,attacked non-guild members whoproduced "their" goods, and forced guild members tolimit their production regardless of need.


The lesson to take away here is that while giving people this kind of power may work over the short term, eventually it gets institutionalized.Whatbeginsas a use ofpower to keep prices lowbecomes a use of power to stifle competition in order to protect thepersonal privilegesofthose running the system. Ultimately this results inraising prices higher than the actual value of the goods produced... andthat winds up being bad for everyone.


So my advice is simple: let the free market work. Let buyers and sellersfreelynegotiate amongthemselves whatthey think isafair price.


Of course there are problems with this approach... but the alternatives areworse.


I encourage you to consider other methodsfor accomplishing your goals. Can you think of other ways to promote quality and low prices?


--Flatfingers

Baidak
Wed May 18, 2005 2:53 am
#9


yes, yes all good points. but with the recent onslaugt of the CU, some price fixing would stop the gouging. crafters who are leaving the game are giving their goods away, almost, and the ones that are left, are raising thier prices faster than you can say "E Chu Ta". ipropose that as many crafters as possible use the same system of measurement when calculating their prices


Heres the formula I personally use when calculating my prices:


(resourcecost*3) = x

15%*x=y

x+y=z


X is the cost to make the item, y is 15% of x, my profit. z is the total price.


i also give 5-100% discounts based on several factors, but these only apply to custom orders.


come on people your saying that this idea will be abused and prices will go up. no, if i can get even 10 crafters to switch to this system, then BAM. everyone comes to us. the other crafters will lose business, and are they even smart enough to change thier prices? if they are, then we have one more convertee. if they arnt, then....its their problem not ours.


not everyone is dishonest.



I LOVE KIESHA ELRICAN! MAY HER BEAUTY GRACE THE GALAXIE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS!

Artisan 4/4/4/4 Master
Architect 4/4/4/4 Master
Merchant 4/4/4/4 Master
Imp Pilot 3/3/3/2

Love ya Kiesha
maigy
Wed May 18, 2005 6:13 am
#10

in your equation what do you mean by resourcecost?... is that the number of resources that go into the product, ort he amount you paid for them, or the amount they are worth?



Offer all auction winnings to one of my vendors at my store.
Maigrey Master Weaponsmith, Master Droid Engineer, Master Merchant

Zayra Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, CM 4000

Maigrey's Weapons Coronet(radiant) WP -251, -5676
ASHRID
Wed May 18, 2005 7:26 am
#11

Its interesting that you are a crafter and you welcomed Vendor Search


I believe the reason for this is evidenced by the fact that you do not appear to have any Merchant skills (certainly not the advertising tree anyway)


The other thing you have to bear in mind is how the CU impacted on the number of crafters still:


a. playing SWG at all


b. playing a crafter desite the respec


Zhundult
Wed May 18, 2005 7:49 am
#12

Now that it seems to be working properly, I'm less against the vendor search than I was at first. What I'd like to see though is the sub categories cleaned up (area stim c's among other things still listed under pharmaceuticals). I'd also like the search to work a little better. I'd like to be able to do more than search custom made items for key words, if I need Naboo Fiberplast, I'd like to be able to type in a search string that would allow it.



Soawav
Greywulf0
Wed May 18, 2005 8:16 am
#13






ASHRID wrote:

Its interesting that you are a crafter and you welcomed Vendor Search


I believe the reason for this is evidenced by the fact that you do not appear to have any Merchant skills (certainly not the advertising tree anyway)


The other thing you have to bear in mind is how the CU impacted on the number of crafters still:


a. playing SWG at all


b. playing a crafter desite the respec







Before the CU my alt character was a Master BE, Master Chef, Artisan 0/4/4/0, and a Merchant 4/0/0/0. I was looking forward to the vendor search. When the CU came, I gave up chef (I was planning on doing it anyways, I just used the change in food to speed up the decision) and passed my chef suit to another guildmember.


Has the alt gone combatant? Nope. I've changed my merchant to 3/4/4/3 and I will be mastering it as soon as the badge system is turned back on. I didn't respec him at all, since I cleared out Chef before they allowed for non-combat respec (thanks for the heads up, devs!).


I've been enjoying merchant, playing around with my vendors and I advertise on the planet map as well as on the vendor search. I love the vendor search system. I use it to buy almost all of my resources for crafting.




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