Business And Economy Archive
Thread: lklkjsaajdkoein
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Saygin
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:00 pm
#1
One question, do you even understand how the majority of loot systems work in man MMOs? Most of the time they aren't setup as Loot for Mob1 Mob2. It's usually Loot Rare, Loot Uncommon, Loot Common, Loot "Trash" (think unmoded/doted cdefs) and then usually in that there might be restricted "special" loot for certain mobs such as pearls for Krayt. If one database get corrupt then it can kill the others or even cause problems like this. Now granted, I hate this "bug" as much as the rest of you but don't make conspiracies from small facts.
Btw I love that you can a link for "Direct Crystal Importer" in your sig and you're making a post about loot drop rates. Makes one go, "Hmm.".
Greywulf0
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:07 pm
#2
Interesting read...
However, I call upon the might of Occam's Razor. My simple explanation...I don't think the devs truly care enough to go through the effort of staging such a complicated scheme.
Edit: Hmm. Clicky isn't working. Here is a quote:
"In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than needed. When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred. A charred tree on the ground could be caused by a landing alien ship or a lightning strike. According to Occam's Razor, the lightning strike is the preferred explanation as it requires the fewest assumptions."
Message Edited by Greywulf0 on 03-09-2005 01:10 PM
Kitoth
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:14 pm
#3
Truthfully, I only got halfway through your post.
But your comment "are the devs bi-polar?" struck me. The answer is yes, they are.
History has shown that the devs have no concept of balance. Things are either WAAAY to easy, or WAAAY too hard. When the Corvette first went to TC, the players said "hey, this is a bit easy". So what do they do? They slap a bunch of high-armor/high-HAM/heavy-hitting NPCs up there and call it 'done'. Whenever they'tweak' something, they don't just tone it down, they make it totally useless. One day they're giving you the keys to the kingdom, the next they're slamming you in a dungeon and taking away all your possessions. They do not have a plan. They do not have a clue. All they do is react. If something is too easy, make it really really hard. If something is too hard, make it really really easy.
Another example comes to patching/updates. Either they're pushing out stuff no one asked for at a break-neck pace without regard to quality, just to say "hey, we're doing something"; or they're saying "Hey, we're doing something you actually asked for, but we can't tell you what or when or how it will affect you" and then doing nothing.
The simple fact is, they have no QA process. They only pretend to have one for appearance's sake. The fact that pearls were taken off of juvies and canyons is in itself a nerf. And like all nerfs, rather than simply 'tweak it', they went all the way and just took every crystal/pearl drop out of the game. Unintentional or not, hey, the problem is solved from their end, right? They felt the drop rate was too high before, now at least it isn't high anymore.
ObiQuixote
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:17 pm
#4
Here’s my theory:
For every type mob or mobs that share the same loot there are multiple levels of loot. Commons, rare and almost never drops but not every group has all types.
Common stuff just drops, there is no attempt and keeping it rare, if you loot something and you roll for a common drop that’s what you get. If a million people kill the same type of mob and roll for a common loot a million pieces of loot are created.
I think the rare drops are handled differently. For rare loot there is a virtual container that gets filled at set intervals of time with a set amount of loot. This single container is used for all mobs of this loot type. So if three nice items were put in, and a million people kill that type of mob, and they all roll to get a rare piece of loot, the first three people will get the rare loot from the container and the rest get nothing.
So while nyax , high end pearls and crystals quit dropping, and there may be valid reasons to nerf those items, a lot of other things in which it make no sense to nerf also stopped dropping.
What I think happened is they screwed up the containers at some stage. Either they are only being filled at server start up, not getting filled at all, getting filled with the wrong stuff or the roll to take from the containers got messed up. Could be any number of places where this process could get screwed up, if this is even how it is done. But that’s my guess, they broke a complex system and they cant find the bug.
For every type mob or mobs that share the same loot there are multiple levels of loot. Commons, rare and almost never drops but not every group has all types.
Common stuff just drops, there is no attempt and keeping it rare, if you loot something and you roll for a common drop that’s what you get. If a million people kill the same type of mob and roll for a common loot a million pieces of loot are created.
I think the rare drops are handled differently. For rare loot there is a virtual container that gets filled at set intervals of time with a set amount of loot. This single container is used for all mobs of this loot type. So if three nice items were put in, and a million people kill that type of mob, and they all roll to get a rare piece of loot, the first three people will get the rare loot from the container and the rest get nothing.
So while nyax , high end pearls and crystals quit dropping, and there may be valid reasons to nerf those items, a lot of other things in which it make no sense to nerf also stopped dropping.
What I think happened is they screwed up the containers at some stage. Either they are only being filled at server start up, not getting filled at all, getting filled with the wrong stuff or the roll to take from the containers got messed up. Could be any number of places where this process could get screwed up, if this is even how it is done. But that’s my guess, they broke a complex system and they cant find the bug.
Stark-Fuji
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:24 pm
#5
does that include the metal and loot item from the tuskens to make a tumbler broken aswell?
Milgram
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:36 pm
#6
Saygin wrote:
One question, do you even understand how the majority of loot systems work in man MMOs? Most of the time they aren't setup as Loot for Mob1 Mob2. It's usually Loot Rare, Loot Uncommon, Loot Common, Loot "Trash" (think unmoded/doted cdefs) and then usually in that there might be restricted "special" loot for certain mobs such as pearls for Krayt. If one database get corrupt then it can kill the others or even cause problems like this. Now granted, I hate this "bug" as much as the rest of you but don't make conspiracies from small facts.
Btw I love that you can a link for "Direct Crystal Importer" in your sig and you're making a post about loot drop rates. Makes one go, "Hmm.".
I have never tried to hide the fact that I sell crystals and pearls. Back before the nerf, I told people that a Night Sister Slave is an elder who will drop a crystal for you. I was defenently planning on stockpiling pearls. I already had 10 and i was going to try to get to 30 at a minimum. The devs defenently outsmarted me. Is the nerf hurting me? Ya, it defenently is. Unfortunately, I sold all but 4 of my premiums for 2.25 million the day before the nerf, so unfortunately, i have nothing to gain from prices going up. I wish I had the ability to cash in big, but man, the devs tatooed tire tracks right up my back. Whew, ya, talk about a blindside. I thought the drop rate would go down, but never, ever would I have predicted they would turn it off completely.
Yes, i do know some about how loot tables work. That is why I am having such a hard problem believing this is a bug. Ok, i can see pearls being broken to monkeying with the giant/ancient drops. I can see elders and protectors/spellweavers being connected to krayts because they drop quality and premiums. I can even see all pearls and all crystals having something in common. What I do not understand, is how is Nyax connected to these? He doesn't drop pearls, he doesn't drop premiums, he drops SEAs, but krayts don't, and elders drop +25s. Rebel commandants are droping select crystals occasionaly. Thugs are droping SEAs in the Nyax range. Ya, my theory is coming to you from an underground bunker outside Roswell New Mexico, but strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
So, if it is a bug, why hasn't it been fixed yet. As I mentioned above, the devs are 0 for 5 on their attempts to fix it. Gotta give them credit though, they were on top of the pet weaponexploit in a heartbeat (no sarcasm there at all, nice work tracking that one down and stoping it before it got out of hand).
Milgram
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:52 pm
#8
I disagree with you obi. There must be a little more seperation. I have never, ever looted a CDEF pistol off a night sister, and I have never looted a base night sister lance off a meatlump. Somewhere, somehow, there is a differentiation between mobs. Elders probably have a 25% crystal, 25% credits, 1% uber loot, 25%basic NS/SMCtable, 20% warm hat loot table, 4% almost uber NS/SMC table.
While i totaly agree with your "uber loot bin" idea, I do not think it applies to pearls and crystals. There could be tons and tons of people out at the graveyard, or there could be no one. Pearls were pretty close to 1 in 4. Same with elders. It didn't matter what time of day, elders were pretty consistent with a 25% drop rate. Same with Nyax. He seemed to be pretty close to 1 in 4. The thing is, tissues, nothing, grenades, and scales seemed to be on a 1 in 4 drop rate as well.
If it is a simple thing like "oops, we deleted the pearl/crystal/nyax loot table" how come it is so hard to fix it? Why are the devs having such a devil of a time, and how come they are putting broken versions of it into test center, then into live? Hmmmm. Sounds like you are missunderestimating them.
Milgram
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:53 pm
#9
Bockeroo wrote:
strange things afoot at the Circle K...haha
What a great movie. Truely a classic.
Macellarius
Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
#10
Amusing post mili, would be pretty good if it panned out. I've still got pearls leftover maybe I'll sell another couple for 7 or 8 mil 
RogueKairi
Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:26 pm
#11
You URLedyour post here over in the Items and Loot Forums and stuck the main post in the Business and Economy forum?
Dude, that just made no sense..
Message Edited by RogueKairi on 03-09-2005 02:27 PM
ObiQuixote
Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:30 pm
#12
Of course there is a differentiations between mobs
mob type 1 might have:
commom_loot_A
mob type 2 might have:
commom_loot_A
rare_loot_A
mob type 3 might have:
commom_loot_B
rare_loot_b
mob type 4 might have:
common_loot_C
rare_loot_B
super_rare_loot_A
Some of them share loot types and some loot types might share common code but I doubt all loot types share all the same code. And some might share some common code that is bugged and then affects all of them in different ways.
A more likely conspiracy is that with the announcement of the new expansion and its apparent set in stone release window they don't have time to run down bugs and fix things the might otherwise do.
mob type 1 might have:
commom_loot_A
mob type 2 might have:
commom_loot_A
rare_loot_A
mob type 3 might have:
commom_loot_B
rare_loot_b
mob type 4 might have:
common_loot_C
rare_loot_B
super_rare_loot_A
Some of them share loot types and some loot types might share common code but I doubt all loot types share all the same code. And some might share some common code that is bugged and then affects all of them in different ways.
A more likely conspiracy is that with the announcement of the new expansion and its apparent set in stone release window they don't have time to run down bugs and fix things the might otherwise do.
Milgram
Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:52 pm
#13
RogueKairi wrote:
You URLedyour post here over in the Items and Loot Forums and stuck the main post in the Business and Economy forum?
Dude, that just made no sense..
Message Edited by RogueKairi on 03-09-2005 02:27 PM
It is more an economic theory than a loot theory. Loot is Nerfed. Ya, we all know that. The why is a economy reason, not a loot reason. Thats why I posted it where I did.
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