Business And Economy Archive
Thread: AT-ST unfairness
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canova
Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:38 am
#1
I would like to post a thread to underline something that appears to me to be particularly unfair.
Since solo group were nerfed, it is impossible to earn 30k per mission unless you are using exploits or using your pets if you are a Creature Handler.
I am not complaining about the advantage that Creature Handlers have, since it makes sense to give them this little profit in return of their skill points spent on this profession.
But I don'tfind outany logical or legitimate reason to justify that one faction would have a tremendous advantage over the other one in terms of missions rewards, especially in such a huge proportion.
Solo grouping used to be a very easy manner to stock up huge amounts of cash in a very short period of time for combat mastered professions. Now many players are having a hard time maintaining their way of life. But thanks to the ATST option imperial aligned charachters can still have an access to this easy cash, offering them a huge advantage in terms of consuming capacity. The price of combat equipement, including armors, weapons and food has not changed since the reform of the solo group system. It has just become much more difficult for the non-imperials to keep buying them at the same rate.
In the past, imperial players were discouraged from using their ATST even for running missions by fear that it would get destroyed by a rebel player. Now that the TEF system has been reformed, there is no balance.
I am not saying that the recent change in the game, including the solo group and the tef system reforms were bad, I even think they do improve the game. But they should apply equally to all players.
The ATST is currently working as a credit harvester and that function should either be nerfed or offered to the other faction.
GrayFox9420
Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:01 am
#2
canova wrote:
The ATST is currently working as a credit harvester and that function should either be nerfed or offered to the other faction.
I agree.
All of the Imperials I know that have an AT-ST have it for this purpose only.
Being a Rebel without an AT-ST to group with, there is no longer a way to make a decent amount of credits quickly as a combat-centric character.
Tavtrin
Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:32 am
#3
Yes there is grayfox, loot hunting. The imperials had a giant equipment advantage in SW, and this is the an attempt to fit continuity.
canova
Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:45 am
#4
yes actually loot hunting is the way I make cash. Problem is, it is a very irregular source of income. Best loot places are camped by afk lootes using awsome weapons, so you need to hope for the very lucky loot. Also this method, might be totally screwed up after combat rewamp when most of those looted stuff are gonna be worthless and when you will need a group ( a group to share loot with ) to get access to it.
I agree that the Empire is supposed to have a technological advantage but, two comments :
1) here this technological advantage here has an impact on the economy and on the wellfare of players. I doubt the devs really intend to make all imps rich and rebels poor. That is just silly, the impact here goes far beyond the GCW.
2) It is not the movie, it is a game, and like in all games, both sides need to be balanced, so that the game is fun. It is true for all games in the history of the world, from chess to the most sophisticated ones. There is a minimum of balance which is required, and if a side might have an advantage, it will have also its disadvantages that the other player can work on.
This is why the imps in game don't have ATATs to slaughter regiments of rebel players in mass, or a death star in their datapad to blow up rebel player cities...
The whole challenge for the devs of that game is to create an appearance of superiority of the Empire but maintaining a certain balance nevertheless.
Kyodor
Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:17 am
#5
2) It is not the movie, it is a game, and like in all games, both sides need to be balanced, so that the game is fun.
Bullseye, but here's a problem. There's generally more Rebels than Imperials. That's not balanced, that's not fun.
Imps can grind credits with a AT-ST. That's not balanced, that's not fun.
Imps would state Rebels have far more soldiers, which is not balanced; Rebels would state Imps have AT-STs, which is not balanced.
Fix one, fix the other - I'd say. Otherwise you just upset the balance more.
canova
Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:07 am
#6
yes this is true that there are more rebels, but how does it affect one personal game experience?
- only as to the Civil War. It might be harder for the imps to win the GCW or for example the quest like the Cries of Alderan if they are fewer to farm faction points, place bases etc... That means mainly in the PVP side of the game. In that matter, I do not disagree with imps having stronger pets. I would not even cry if the stormtrooper armor was a tight better than the rebel one... just to compensate the fact that to most players, the dark side is not as appealing as the light side. Also I noticed that in the PVP population the numbers are not so different on both sides and the imp PVP PAs are doing very well.
- but why should it affect the wealth of the players? why should imps have an easy credit-harvester that rebels andeven NEUTRALplayers don't have? It has nothing to do with the GCW, and unlike the difference in numbers on both sides it does affect the possibilities of each player in the game. Why not making imps not pay maintainance then? or not suffer decay?
The impact here is of far greater scope than the GCW and is not justified by continuity, cause it has nothing to do with it.
Message Edited by canova on 03-29-2005 02:09 PM
MikeMonger1
Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:15 am
#7
Amazing. Simply...amazing.
People complain about EVERYTHING in this game.
- Allow players to become Jedi, and people complain that continuity is broken.
- Make the path to jedi long, and people complain that all they do is grind.
- Try to impose continuity by giving imperials an advantage, and people complain that it's no fun.
- Attempt to balance the two sides, and people complain that, as rebs, they WANT the excitement of being hunted down.
- Upgrade combat, and people complain that it'll make loot hunting harder.
- Leave combat as it is, and people complain that it's all about "uber" equipment.
- Have solo grouping, and people complain that it makes everyone rich and drives up inflation.
- Nerf solo groups, and everyone complains that they can't make money or maintain their lifestyles because of all the afk looters,had little impact on prices, and didn't make things more affordable.
- Have a tef system, and people complain that they keep getting ganked while faction farming.
- Remove that tef system, and people complain that imps make more money AND their immersion is gone.
- Have at-st's, and people complain that they're only used for credit farming. People ALSO complain that because they're so weak, they're kind of useless for anything else.
- And when they nerf at-st's yet again so that it doesn't affect mission difficulties, which they eventually will do, people will complain thatat-st's now have absolutely NO purpose whatsoever.
With the sheer amount of b*tching and moaning that goes on in this game, it amazes me that there's anyone left playing at all.
You resent imps having at-st's and getting higher paying missions because of them? Hey! Here's a thought! Go imp, get an at-st yourself, and share in the benefits that the DOMINANT faction has.
Or wait for the Grand Unified Nerf (ie CU), and it'll no longer be an issue. No one will be able to solo 30k missions at all, with or without an at-st.
canova
Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:41 am
#8
First of, I am not complaining about the changes that were made to this game, I ask for them to be implemented fully. It seems to me there is something they forgot to do here.
I don't think it is good for the game to allow such advantage on one faction in terms of economy. I don't think it is good for rebel PAs to make the mechanicspositive for their members to either go imp, or change their alt's faction only to make money, or look for an exploit which would allow them to use such thing as a rebel.
I don't think it is good to implement new rules but allowing a vast quantity of players to avoid them while the other is stricly bound to abide by them.
You see, it is not like CH where you need to have certain skills to use the thing, here any player can have an ATST, either buying or earning one.
And no I am not threatening to quit the game because of that, I am addressing something that I feel is an issue and I wish would be corrected.
And as far as I know I yet to see any convincing argument that would make this difference of treatment consistent, logical or legitimate.
Message Edited by canova on 03-29-2005 05:45 PM
Yrab65
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:17 am
#9
I would like to post a thread to underline something that appears to me to be particularly unfair.
Since solo group were nerfed, it is impossible to earn 30k per mission unless you are using exploits or using your pets if you are a Creature Handler.
I am not complaining about the advantage that Creature Handlers have, since it makes sense to give them this little profit in return of their skill points spent on this profession.
But I don'tfind outany logical or legitimate reason to justify that one faction would have a tremendous advantage over the other one in terms of missions rewards, especially in such a huge proportion.
Solo grouping used to be a very easy manner to stock up huge amounts of cash in a very short period of time for combat mastered professions. Now many players are having a hard time maintaining their way of life. But thanks to the ATST option imperial aligned charachters can still have an access to this easy cash, offering them a huge advantage in terms of consuming capacity. The price of combat equipement, including armors, weapons and food has not changed since the reform of the solo group system. It has just become much more difficult for the non-imperials to keep buying them at the same rate.
In the past, imperial players were discouraged from using their ATST even for running missions by fear that it would get destroyed by a rebel player. Now that the TEF system has been reformed, there is no balance.
I am not saying that the recent change in the game, including the solo group and the tef system reforms were bad, I even think they do improve the game. But they should apply equally to all players.
The ATST is currently working as a credit harvester and that function should either be nerfed or offered to the other faction.
/agree.
I know there will be people saying the imperials should have an advantage as they are the ruling government but as someone else has mentioned. THIS IS A GAME. Why should one player have such an advantage over another just because of the side they chose. The price of armour and weapons etc. have not dropped because of the solo group nerf which means that if it continues the only people who will be able to compete for the best items in trade will be the players who chose to be imperial.
Devs please do something about this!
GrafvonSoden
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:28 am
#10
So you're saying it's unfair that imperials have the AT-ST which can basically only be used for better payouts on mission, because it was nerfed to uslessness because of Rebels crying unfair. So this is more unfair that Rebel forts having far superior troops to have to fight thru, or more unfair than only Imperial regular NPC's dropping posters, where as rebel NPC's drop crap.
There are a multitude of differences between the rebels and imperials. Why select one item. Rebels armor suck as far as astetics go. It's almost impossible for Imperials to get imperial banners. Imperials have more Faction purchases available, but aliens have ungodly amounts to accumulate before they can afford them.
Any can make an argument out of one item. But lets look at the entire picture.
Thanks
MikeMonger1
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:41 am
#11
canova wrote:
First of, I am not complaining about the changes that were made to this game, I ask for them to be implemented fully. It seems to me there is something they forgot to do here.
I don't think it is good for the game to allow such advantage on one faction in terms of economy. I don't think it is good for rebel PAs to make the mechanicspositive for their members to either go imp, or change their alt's faction only to make money, or look for an exploit which would allow them to use such thing as a rebel.
I don't think it is good to implement new rules but allowing a vast quantity of players to avoid them while the other is stricly bound to abide by them.
You see, it is not like CH where you need to have certain skills to use the thing, here any player can have an ATST, either buying or earning one.
And no I am not threatening to quit the game because of that, I am addressing something that I feel is an issue and I wish would be corrected.
And as far as I know I yet to see any convincing argument that would make this difference of treatment consistent, logical or legitimate.
Message Edited by canova on 03-29-2005 05:45 PM
Yes, you've repeatedly seen an argument that makes the difference of treatment consistant, logical, and legitimate. Imperials rule the galaxy. Therefore, imperials should be allowed one or two perks that nobody else has.
You just don't agree with the argument. Which is your perogative.
Butyou're absolutely correct. ANY player can get an at-st, if he joins the right faction and grinds the fp. Therefore, it isn't an "unfair" advantage to anyone. You've made theconscious decisionnot to take advantage of the benefits being an imperial bestows. That'syour decision....why should others be denied this benefit because you'vedecided not to take advantage of it?
Because the fact is, at-st's have NO other value anymore. The rebs whined, and whined, and whined, and now they're COMPLETELY useless in combat. In PvP, I've seen at-st's go down in something like 15-20 SECONDS. You can't even use them against non-factioned NPC critters anymore (they won't attack them), so they're basically useless in PvE as well.
Get rid of the grouping benefit at-st's give, and you might as well just take them out of the game entirely.
Which, of course, would make you perfectly happy, since everyone should be completely even, regardless of the decisions they make or the sides they take. Let there be NOTHING to distinguish between Imp and Reb...just the little icon next to the name. Make "factions" even more meaningless than they are now.....
Because really, who cares if you're imp or reb? The only thing distinguishing them now is this whole at-st "controversy".
Your argument boils down to: "I can't do everything he can do, so it's unfair, even though I could easily do what he does if i wanted to. So because I don't want to do what he does, he shouldn't be able to do it either."
And FYI, MOST imps with at-st's DON'T use them to up mission payouts. The solo group nerf forced most people to find other, more enjoyable ways to make money. Most imps don't use their at-st's at all. I've had 2 for over a year now, and I think I've summoned them up, like, 5 times total.
MikeMonger1
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:45 am
#12
GrafvonSoden wrote:
So you're saying it's unfair that imperials have the AT-ST which can basically only be used for better payouts on mission, because it was nerfed to uslessness because of Rebels crying unfair. So this is more unfair that Rebel forts having far superior troops to have to fight thru, or more unfair than only Imperial regular NPC's dropping posters, where as rebel NPC's drop crap.
There are a multitude of differences between the rebels and imperials. Why select one item. Rebels armor suck as far as astetics go. It's almost impossible for Imperials to get imperial banners. Imperials have more Faction purchases available, but aliens have ungodly amounts to accumulate before they can afford them.
Any can make an argument out of one item. But lets look at the entire picture.
Thanks
THANK YOU GrafvonSoden.
Yeah! I think it's unfair the rebs get much cooler loot than I do! It's unfair that they can get this loot, and make money AND faction points at the same time! TOTALLY unfair! All factional personnel should drop the SAME loot, so that EVERYONE can make the same money off of those loot sales!
The rebs have a source of income that I don't have! It's unfair and unbalanced! Dev's, do something!
RamondChappell
Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:32 am
#13
Y'see... Imperials have names like Lenny... and Rebels have names like Karl.
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