Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Trade Restrictions
JohnnyMcDermott wrote:
Yae, or nae?
I think Yae. There are several reasons for this. Yes, I too get annoyed at paying 5 million for a Bracer, 12 million for a spaceship, and various other extortionate prices that on a wage of 30K per Bounty Hunting mission (let's face it, Jedi are pretty impossible until nerfed) I'll never be able to afford those things. Ok, I hear the sceptics now, go and make money! Stop moaning cause you're a peasant! But seriously, how many ways are there to make the kind of money things on the market are sold for. It's totally out of sinc. It's like ifyou're paid 26 grand a year, and a nice CD costs 3 million! (Nice analogy!)
So what am I suggesting, let the Merchants be kind and drop all their prices at the same time? Pfft! Like that would happen, and who could abuse it- anyone. What I am suggesting is for the next patch, add restrictions on the selling price of items that make the economy work: for entertainers who rely on tips, for combaters like BHs and Explorers, even for the medics and crafters who are in a benefitial position to us. This would mean a set limit on the price of each item (and not just 999,999,999 for everything) that would prevent anythingbeing sold at an unreasonable and economy damaging rate.This would be like, Krayt pearls at no more than 5 million or something. (And the analogies die...)
Howwould this help the economy? Well for a start items would be within the same price as wages. It wouldpreventmerchants, or"alts" being able toown a monopoly on the rarer expensive items (as they can make money with one and buy with the other). It takes away this elite class that are screwing everyone over by charging millions for rare items that no one can afford but themselves. This benefits them, and I'm sure I'll see a few replies from those kinds of people with negative outlooks on the idea of trade restrictions,but I seriously think they need to be implaced inorder to make a fair, working system for all members of the game.
There are obvious ways in which the system can be exploited. Selling genericitemslike crates and containers for more, but seriously- who's going to buy from a cheat when they can buy from a merchant who is obeying the Trade laws?
Think about it. Tell me what you think.
1. Items are within the same range as "wages". You can't make money just from missions off the terms.
2. There are no monopolies in the game. There can't be. You either get it yourself, or buy it from someone. No one can shut anyone out of the market, a requirement for a successful monopoly.
3. Obviously somone other than themselves can afford the prices they charge, because the items are selling.
4. You can find all the info you need on why this is a bad idea by doing a forum search. There are hundreds of threads on this subject.
I suggest you find out what the rich guys are doing to get rich and emulate them.
FeydmanKassan wrote:
1. Items are within the same range as "wages". You can't make money just from missions off the terms.
2. There are no monopolies in the game. There can't be. You either get it yourself, or buy it from someone. No one can shut anyone out of the market, a requirement for a successful monopoly.
3. Obviously somone other than themselves can afford the prices they charge, because the items are selling.
4. You can find all the info you need on why this is a bad idea by doing a forum search. There are hundreds of threads on this subject.
I suggest you find out what the rich guys are doing to get rich and emulate them.
Hmm, some really logical thinking there. I can't just get money from doing missions. Ok, what shall I do then? I'm a Pistoleer/ Bounty Hunter, with my options being: missions, merchant, or exploit. I'm not going to be a merchant because I'd have to surrend all my skills, therefore I am shut out the market in what seems more like discrimination than monopoly.
On point 3, yes, the people who either spends hours on missions, or sell things themselves (to make millions) can but items, which is what I said in the original post. And on point 4, I see no reason in any of your 4 well constructed points as to why Trade Restrictions are a bad idea.
And on emulation, I've explained why I am unable to do this without exploiting (using alts or of course surrendering skills).
Perhaps it was too much to ask, but does anyone have anything to say on the idea of Trade Restrictions, or shall we scrutinise my post to find ways of avoiding the subject some more?
Well, are you talking about crafted items, or loot items? I'd be willing to bet that anything going for more than a million credits has an NPCloot somewhere in it's history (whether the item itself was looted, uses looted components like Krayt tissue, or made from a loot-only limited use schematic). The only standard items that would likely come close to a million would be high end starships, and that's because they use a bajillion resources. 12 million for a spaceship? Unless it was a KSE Firespray (the "Slave 1", which is very difficult to get the schematic for) or one of the RotW reward ships (which I believe you can only get a single time per character), I didn't think any ships required that many resources.
So it seems to me that the problem isn't the crafters/merchants, it's the loot sellers and the buyers who are paying that much for the loot.
The economics is basically this: player A puts an item up for sale for $$$. This price (should) reflect whatever cost was required to make/get the item, plus a profit margin. Player B sees that item and decides that the item is worth $$$, so he/she buys it. If there is no Player B, player A can either reduce the price, or keep it at the same level hoping that somewhere thereis a player who is willing to pay that much.
No one is forcing you (or anyone)to buy these items. Any purchase should be considered an investment: will having this item allow me to do more / make more money / look cooler / etc to enough of an extent to be worth the monetary cost? If not, don't bother spending the money. If so, then the cost (whatever it is) is a valid price, since you'll ultimately come out ahead. Owning a Krayt-enhanced gun made from uber (= expensive) resources by a 12-point weaponsmith that has an awesome smuggler slice isn't a necessity (or a right, which has been the implication of some posts I've read similar to yours). Sure, it's nice to have that extra damage/speed, but if it's not worth the asking price, a player can do without.
Message Edited by sciguyCO on 06-07-2005 02:59 PM
Where has all the money in the game come from? Entertainer missions? no. Medic missions? Lol. Survey missions? pft. Looting credits? I doubt it. Whatever the scout/ranger missions are called? Nope.
Destroy Missions? BINGO. I'd argue that 90% of all money coming into the game has come from either BH or destroy missions. That being said, 90% of all money is coming into the game from combatants. I may have missed some other sources of income but I'm tired and at work -- spare me 
Point being, without combantants the "rich crafters" would have no money the looters who charge so much for their stuff would have no sales, etc
I think you get my point.
JohnnyMcDermott wrote:
Hmm, some really logical thinking there. I can't just get money from doing missions. Ok, what shall I do then? I'm a Pistoleer/ Bounty Hunter, with my options being: missions, merchant, or exploit. I'm not going to be a merchant because I'd have to surrend all my skills, therefore I am shut out the market in what seems more like discrimination than monopoly.
You're a combatant. Go chase after the loot so many combatants love. You also don't need to be a Master Merchant to buy and sell limited amounts of things. You wouldn't have to drop all your skills to pick up the business line of Artisan. There's always space combat too. I'm usually up there just for fun but I hear that's a good money maker. Another thing would be to use your lots for harvesters and set up a working relatinship one or more crafters. Beyond that, some people set their characters up to collect credits, some people don't.
As for why trade restrictions are a bad idea, they defeat the free market approach. The reason that it's enjoyable now is that business is unrestricted competition. When you even people out the way you suggest, it just sucks the life right out of it.
I know someone with a pistoleer/bh who makes alot now selling gorax shards going out looting stuff is one option.
Set up 10 harvesters or 8 and a small house, and sell your resources with 8 BER 13 heavy harvesters you should be able to pull about 300 - 400k of resource every week and sell to a resource merchant for 2 - 3 CPU. or put down fusion generators and sell power for 1 - 2 cpu
Run destroy missions in a group of 8 grinding, i made around 100k pr hour like this while grinding doctor.
Just to pile on 
, there's another (better)name for trade restrictions: price caps.
Price capshave historically never worked well -- all they do is cause producers to stop producing because you've made it uneconomical to do so. And the result isunsatisfied consumers and an unnecessarily strangled economy.
I would say that SWG probably doesn't need either of those things right now....
Prices seem high because that's what enough people are willing and able to pay for things. In a free market (such as SWG's player economy), both sellers and buyers are free to negotiate a price they can both accept.
So any argument that "prices are too high" that only goes after the sellers is doomed to fail because it addresses only half the problem.
--Flatfingers
JohnnyMcDermott wrote:
Hmm, some really logical thinking there. I can't just get money from doing missions. Ok, what shall I do then? I'm a Pistoleer/ Bounty Hunter, with my options being: missions, merchant, or exploit. I'm not going to be a merchant because I'd have to surrend all my skills, therefore I am shut out the market in what seems more like discrimination than monopoly.
On point 3, yes, the people who either spends hours on missions, or sell things themselves (to make millions) can but items, which is what I said in the original post. And on point 4, I see no reason in any of your 4 well constructed points as to why Trade Restrictions are a bad idea.
And on emulation, I've explained why I am unable to do this without exploiting (using alts or of course surrendering skills).
Perhaps it was too much to ask, but does anyone have anything to say on the idea of Trade Restrictions, or shall we scrutinise my post to find ways of avoiding the subject some more?
As you can see from the above posts, I didn't elaborate because I knew that others would be more than happy to fill in the details for you.
If you have heeded the most useful point in my post and searched the forums on this subject, you should now realize that the whole price control thing has been debated to DEATH and the general consenus is that it is a dumb idea on many levels. Look, I didn't start out with a cdef and a melon, I had some help. But, it wasn't long before I was down to my last 1000cr. But I did have 4 med harvies, and one day, while making a swoop (after getting shot off my last one and walking halfway across Rori to the nearest town), it occured to me that maybe I could make swoops to earn a little extra cash. That was about 1 month ago. I just past the 3mil mark on my bank account and I can't keep my vendor stocked, even though I have 16 harvesters working full time. I did have to buy an alt, but I don't even play him. I just needed the lots. In total, I probably made about 6-7 mil. I invested a lot in harvies and my ship, of course. Maybe too much, but I like my toys. I also sell my excess resources to a bulk vendor. My point is, EVERYONE has a means of making a living in this game regardless of the profession they chose. You just have to use your head and think it through. Those who have are the ones who have created the current economy and it works well for everyone except maybe you and the guy dressed as a beggar on Dant. Oh I forgot, he's rich too. The beggar schick really pays off. Funny and inventive! So instead of thinking of ways to make the game easier for yourself, try thinking of ways to integrate yourself into the existing system. Next to bulk resource dealers, the richest people in the game are...combatants! Pssst, you are a combatant.... 
FeydmanKassan wrote:
As you can see from the above posts, I didn't elaborate because I knew that others would be more than happy to fill in the details for you.
If you have heeded the most useful point in my post and searched the forums on this subject
...
Nema0879 wrote:
FeydmanKassan wrote:
As you can see from the above posts, I didn't elaborate because I knew that others would be more than happy to fill in the details for you.
If you have heeded the most useful point in my post and searched the forums on this subject
nitpicky I know, as you can use google's search site option -- but ... the forum search thing hasn't worked for me in weeks unless they fixed it last night
And back to the OP, I on the otherhand did start with a cdef and a melon, nothing more. We didn't have mounts muchless swoops though I did have the benefit of starting on aclean server in Nov. 03 and the reason I did so was the problems with the economics and trying to start a business on an established server. Its not impossible, but its much easier on aclean server.
I started day one running missions so I could buy some wind harvestors and sell wind on the bazzar .... next thing I knew, I had a nice fleet of medium harvs, a resource shop outside of bestine and a very nice start to not having to worry about money for a very long time.
In this game it is painfully easy to make money, you just have to know how. I have a very successful shop now, why? So that I can buy whatever I want without worrying about whether its overpriced or not and having everything I want for my combat character ig.
I had a partner in crime so to speak all along the way, my bf. Admittedly this gave us double the amount of lots and such but we also split everything we made so in reality, it wasn't much of an advantage. We also purchased more accounts which is somewhat necessary for purecrafters -- even I don't want to craft ALL the time
eek, that was much longer than I intended it to be -- but you get my point
Search seems to be working for me now. Schools out andsome HS kid must've fixed it for them.
FeydmanKassan wrote:
Too bad you're not on Lowca. I've been looking for a BE....
only reason I even mastered was my tailor/chef alt