Business And Economy Archive

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Phaelyn wrote:

Look at the posts on this forum. We seem to have a lot of people calling the Economy "Broken", because they can't personally afford to buy Skill Tapes, Pearls or other high end loots. We have people saying the Economy is "Broken" because they have to pay 300k for Armor, 150k on Brandy, Canape. We have people saying that Doctors are "Breaking" the economy because they charge 10k for a Buff. We have people saying that the economy is "Broken" because 30 second missions ONLY pay 9k.

What in the world is wrong with us?

I will open myself up completely for Flames here. Go ahead and Flame me, and 1 Star all you like. But I am going to tell you some Truths here, and you can choose which statement that follows applies to you.

1. The Truth will set you free.


2. I am not telling the Truth.

That's it. Either you will learn from what I am typing, or you will ignore it, and go back to hating the game, and all it stands for in relation to the Economy in SWG.

Myth #1: "I can't afford all I need".

Sorry folks - You CAN afford all you NEED. Many of you are confusing what you WANT to have, with what you NEED to have. As any veteran can attest to, you don't NEED everything in this game to play it, enjoy it, and be able to compete. Items such as Armor and Buffs, believe it or not, are Voluntary, and not mandatory. You CAN fight without them. You CAN earn credits without them. Swoops, speederbikes, AV-21s - You don't NEED them. You can walk in this game. It slows your pace down, but you are not restricted in travel whatsoever. About the ONLY things you NEED in SWG is a weapon & stim packs. And believe it or not, you CAN survive with an E11 instead of a DE-10. You can do battle with a 6k37-145 damage VK just as well as you can with the sliced Million Credit 225 max damage version. Only PvP AT THIS POINT IN THE GAME makes you NEED to have all of the above. And that my friend is ALSO a choice you make - Not something forced on you by the game or Economy.

it's been 12 days since I posted this thread. in those 12 days, i have dropped Shipwright, and did a reasonable Grind up the a double Combat oriented Template - Just so i can experience what some Combat types have been espousing. Some of my views have been altered - but not in the least changed. This section, about affording what you need - I grinded up to TKM/Swordsman using nothing more than a 10k power Hammer, 1 case of Canape ans 3 bottles of Brandy. Total cost to me - 99k for Canape, 24k for Brandy and 10k for the Hammer. I already owned the Armor I used, but even factoring THAT, add 180k. Total outlay = 313k. I earned that 313k before I even started this Grind through the "measly" 9k missions. Took me one buff session, and had 102k left OVER after that (And subtracting the 8500 i spent on the 2828pt buff) So, Grinded a new Combat profession = 102k PROFIT.

Myth #2: "I can't get a +20 Attachment without Millions in the bank"

Maybe you can't. Look above to the WANT vs NEED. You honestly don't NEED that Attachment. It's an optional thing that gives you a BONUS, not makes it so you can play the game. You can buy a bunch of lower prices Attachments to equal that +20. You can go out and loot your OWN Attachment. You don't HAVE to buy it - There are many ways to get them without credits. Make friends with some people in the game, and have them HELP you to loot what you want. Credits aren't the only answer.

After I got my second Combat mastery, I took my PH and went to the Krayt Graveyard. With this template of double Combat + Novice medic (And the rest in Business artisan, merchant lines) I was able to SOLO Juvenile Krayt Dragons. Total cost to me was 6k for Stims. Used 1 set of tissues to have 2 flamethrowers made - GAVE one to a Guildmate, sold the second through auction for 2.5 million. 180k for another set of Armor, 350k for a MUCH better power hammer later, looted various +4 &+18 AA and CA from Nyax, Nightsisters and Rebels. Sold THOSE for a total of 17 Million. Total cost to ME was 530k for weaponsand armor, 6k for stims, and 10 buffs @ 8500 = 85k. 621k Spent, 19.5 million earned - A rather HEFTY profit - And I kept the pick of the AA and CA for MYSELF.

Myth #3: "Doctors are over-charging us on Buffs"

Maybe they are. So what? It may seem harsh, but you are complaining about spending credits to basically enable "GOD MODE" in the game. If anything, with Buffs at the quality they are at now, and the MANY advantages they give you, we are being severely UNDER-CHARGED. MOBs that would kill a GROUP with a glance are now made so we can kill them BY OURSELF with a buff. And we complain because the price is so affordable that someone starting the game TODAY can afford it?

11 buffs to this point in my test = 93.5k Paid to Doctor. With 19.6 MILLION in earnings.. I can say with confidence that *I* make out far better than the Doctor did.

Myth #4: "I can't make money as a fighter now that there are no Solo Groups"

I don't have a 100% Combat character. And if *I* can earn 300-500k in a couple hours, a 100% Combat Template should be able to do it too. Is it possible you mean "I can't make a Million credits an hour anymore?" Because that IS true. What is also true is that you don't NEED to. There's nothing in this game that you NEED to have that takes that kind of earning power - Only things you WANT. And many of those wants can be gotten without having to spend credits on them.

Look above. NO missions were used to make 19.6 MILLION in 12 days.

Myth #5: "Crafters are the only rich people in the game, and they do it by charging too much"

This one has SOME basis in truth. Many Crafters DO overcharge. On the flip side, there are quite a few Crafters out there that charge a LOT less for their product - But they are harder to find. They don't HAVE the completely convenient location next to Coronet or Theed. They are the little guy in a Player City of some Guild, who doesn't put their vendor on the Planetary Map because they get all the business they desire from their friends. There are Crafters out there who have little more credits than you do - because they craft for the challenge, and not profit.

I dropped my Crafting skills for this test. I made over TWICE the amount I had in the bank 12 days ago as a Fighter - AND I STILL RETAINED SOME ARTISAN AND MERCHANT SKILLS! - Imagine if I had dropped them ALL and took up Medic more fully, or Scout to be able to harvest meats...

It may seem to you all that I am being harsh, and critical. And I am. I'm not afraid to tell you how much I have in my In Game account - I have 8 Million credits. I made 1/2 of those credits from selling Resources. The other 1/2 I get through missions and looting. I can't afford to buy +25 Skill tapes, "Uber" weapons, multiple ADKs, or a lot of the things people are saying they MUST have. I don't go around in the game Buffed and Armored - I save that for special hunts, etc. I have everything in game I absolutely NEED. And if I WANT something, I know I will get it eventually. I don't need them right NOW. Even if I have to loot things myself. Even if i do without some other things to get the 1 thing I absolutely want. I have every opportunity to get everything I want in this game - Because I am willing to take time, and not throw credits around/

Message Edited by Phaelyn on 03-10-2005 04:50 AM

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One thing I have noticed in these 12 days - I am spending a slight amount more for Foods than I did before - But when you consider my Prey went from Hutt Expeditionary Forces on Yavin to Nightsisters and Krayt Dragons, it was only to be expected. This test was certainly fun - And very, very lucrative.

With that said - I can't wait till i grind out another Crafting profession. I miss it.

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Giamai wrote:

while your experience is a nice model for what can be done in game, it doesn't address what the argument had been by many people. how your needs are determined by your goals in game. and being able to achieve those goals is what keeps people logging on.

for example, at no point did you do any pvp...pvp to survive longer than 30 seconds anyways..does actually create the need for some very high end food/buffs/equipment. the amount of money you made was not sufficient to buy many of these things on most servers.

Actually, I chose not to PvP due to the upcoming CU - If i was to buy all the PvP needs NOW, it wouldn't have been a fair representation of what PvP WILL be in as little as 5 weeks. However, I *did* look to see what things would cost. 750k would have bought me the popular "4 piece mini suit" of 90% base Composite. 200k each for a case of Vercupti, Mandalorian Wine, Breath of Heaven, Synthsteak, Blue Milk, etc. A weapon capable of making my template perfectly viable in PvP would have cost me 5 million. Assuming fully outfitting myself, I still would have retained over 11million of the credits I made in PvE.

so your argument that you can make tons of money by soloing juvie krayts is fabulous, but again tho thats a template choice. swordsman is arguably the best pve template on the server but not so good in pvp so people are forced to choose one or the other. and for most that means soloing krayts is out of the question.

Yes and no - Swordsman/TKM has many benefits in PvP. Dizzy/KD combo as TK, switch to high Blast damage Power Hammer (With armor piercing to bypass some armor) while they are down - A very good PvP combination. If I had gone witha COMPLETE Template change and added some Ranged - About the only templates better would be Rifle/Doc, CM/Fencer, etc.

soloing most things that drop good loot is out of my tkm hands but i can take out jedi...my choices created different needs

the desire to be successful in pvp creates the need for both best stuffies and a template that sort of handicaps you for loot hunting

essentially you have proved many of your points /hi5 to you

but i still disagree with your first myth...i think that affording what you need depends on what it is that your goals are, what it is that is required to be successful in that goal, and how can you reach it. it is a never ending uphill battle, and is not accessible to everyone LEAST of all anyone who is stretched for playing time. grinding swordsman and making 19 mill credits or however many is simply out of reach for somebecause of the time involved. this too creates a need, a need to buy things, and therefore a need for more credits. i can come up with other examples but you get the idea.

what is needed is still exclusively in the eye of the beholder and is therefore not a myth, but a perception made by each player on a case by case basis.

I *do* understand what you mean, however I still see it differently. WANTING to become great at PvP can take many routes. You can buy your way to it. You can play your way to it (Much longer, drawn out process - but completely viable). The contention I put forth - That you didn't NEED to PvP to play the game as a whole expands to every aspect.

Don't mistake me - If you want to do certain things, there IS a cost involved - But it is a self imposed cost, and not something forced upon you by the game itself or other players.

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Myth #5: "Crafters are the only rich people in the game, and they do it by charging too much"

This one has SOME basis in truth. Many Crafters DO overcharge. On the flip side, there are quite a few Crafters out there that charge a LOT less for their product - But they are harder to find. They don't HAVE the completely convenient location next to Coronet or Theed. They are the little guy in a Player City of some Guild, who doesn't put their vendor on the Planetary Map because they get all the business they desire from their friends. There are Crafters out there who have little more credits than you do - because they craft for the challenge, and not profit.

It may seem to you all that I am being harsh, and critical. And I am. I'm not afraid to tell you how much I have in my In Game account - I have 8 Million credits. I made 1/2 of those credits from selling Resources. The other 1/2 I get through missions and looting. I can't afford to buy +25 Skill tapes, "Uber" weapons, multiple ADKs, or a lot of the things people are saying they MUST have. I don't go around in the game Buffed and Armored - I save that for special hunts, etc. I have everything in game I absolutely NEED. And if I WANY something, I know I will get it eventually. I don't need them right NOW. Even if I have to loot things myself. Even if i do without some other things to get the 1 thing I absolutely want. I have every opportunity to get everything I want in this game - Because I am willing to take time, and not throw credits around/

Message Edited by Phaelyn on 03-10-2005 04:50 AM

Message Edited by Phaelyn on 03-22-2005 07:38 PM

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falllacy wrote:

at launch, it wasn't an issue. because everyone was in the same boat.

Now the game is polarized between the haves and have nots.

Try starting out as a new character today. and see how long it takes you to develop a presence.

Try fighting serious pvp'ers with inferior armor and weapons, and see what happens.

Try crafting with less than top of the line ingredients and experimentation, and see what happens.

Maybe you could sell junk speeders for bh's chasing jedi...but you're not going to make enough

to really compete in the market.

I do agree on one thing..the game was really fun back then. ;d

if they started a new server today, I would be on it. And then I would agree with the original post.

But until then, the game has evolved beyond the point where many of the mentioned items are 'optional'

Message Edited by falllacy on 03-10-2005 03:08 AM

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falllacy wrote:

sorry, you lost all credibility about two sentences in...armor and buffs voluntary?

sure, if you want to not play the game. perhaps sit in the starport. or kill kreetles.

The fact is, to experience any of the high end content, you need armor, you need buffs, you need good weapons.

You need food. you need swoops.

Want to pvp at all? all of the above as well. And pvp, for many people, isn't a 'choice'..it's an integral part of the star wars universe.

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steveiulaw wrote:

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falllacy wrote:

sorry, you lost all credibility about two sentences in...armor and buffs voluntary?

sure, if you want to not play the game. perhaps sit in the starport. or kill kreetles.

The fact is, to experience any of the high end content, you need armor, you need buffs, you need good weapons.

You need food. you need swoops.

Want to pvp at all? all of the above as well. And pvp, for many people, isn't a 'choice'..it's an integral part of the star wars universe.

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ha, thats kind of funny. I solo GDKs without buffs or armor (well brandy, that is a type of buff). Sure it might take me longer than the uber leet buff dude, but it can be done. Oh, and what do you think we people who were around before the buff craze did? Yeah, we all stayed within sight of the starport.

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