Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Stopping Credit Sellers
Trance750 wrote:
I may get flamed for this, but I don't see why the big deal about "credit selling". I mean it's not hurting anybody and SOE is still making their money for use of the account, so if somebody wants to sell their character, then why the fuss? If somebody wants to buy a character, then what's the fuss? SOE is still getting their money, either way. So what's the fuss?
from sony's pov? bad PR...makes sony look like they are tolerant of things that have a negative impact on the game as a whole.
from an ingame pov...it promotes things like AFK camping the aa'kuan cave. in the case of the credit farming groups, they kill the lair as quickly as possible and leave the creatures messing up spawns for everyone else.
it makes newbies able to be insanely wealthy earlier which eliminates the market for lower end products for up and coming crafters to supply them with. so newer craftershavea harder time getting established...thus skewing the economy to be dependent more on long term vet crafters while blocking new ones.
selling accounts...particularly jedi... means that the number of jedi never goes down due to players leaving. instead the numbers go up as new players level their own jedi and ebayed jedi stay on the server. this is having a huge affect on pvp on most servers and not in a good way.
there's more...i just can't think of them right now 
Trance750 wrote:I may get flamed for this, but I don't see why the big deal about "credit selling". I mean it's not hurting anybody and SOE is still making their money for use of the account, so if somebody wants to sell their character, then why the fuss? If somebody wants to buy a character, then what's the fuss? SOE is still getting their money, either way. So what's the fuss?
If there's no point in in-game effort and time going into a character for you, then why play that type of MMORPG?
Giamai wrote:
Trance750 wrote:
I may get flamed for this, but I don't see why the big deal about "credit selling". I mean it's not hurting anybody and SOE is still making their money for use of the account, so if somebody wants to sell their character, then why the fuss? If somebody wants to buy a character, then what's the fuss? SOE is still getting their money, either way. So what's the fuss?
from sony's pov? bad PR...makes sony look like they are tolerant of things that have a negative impact on the game as a whole.
from an ingame pov...it promotes things like AFK camping the aa'kuan cave. in the case of the credit farming groups, they kill the lair as quickly as possible and leave the creatures messing up spawns for everyone else.
it makes newbies able to be insanely wealthy earlier which eliminates the market for lower end products for up and coming crafters to supply them with. so newer craftershavea harder time getting established...thus skewing the economy to be dependent more on long term vet crafters while blocking new ones.
selling accounts...particularly jedi... means that the number of jedi never goes down due to players leaving. instead the numbers go up as new players level their own jedi and ebayed jedi stay on the server. this is having a huge affect on pvp on most servers and not in a good way.
there's more...i just can't think of them right now
Agreed. As long as there is money in bad behaviour then that type of behaviour will perisist.
SWG is suppose to have an in-game player-run economy. Selling ingame items/credits creates an external economy which plays hell with the ingame econ. Credit farmers flood the universe with credits. This devalues them ingame. Prices go up (or stay up) unnecessarily and lower level players end feeling left out or forced to buy credits to keep up.
mattos90 wrote:
I think we should be able to sell credits, if someone's willing to pay for things I spent time earning, I view it as compensation for my time.
Enablement does not equal entitlement. You wouldn't expect, somehow, to be compensated for spacing out in a lawn chair or watching a movie. That's time you spent relaxing and enjoying yourself. You're doing the same thing when you play SWG. The ability alone to transfer something of that experience for profit shouldn't make it seem less absurd.
Vastar wrote:
mattos90 wrote:
I think we should be able to sell credits, if someone's willing to pay for things I spent time earning, I view it as compensation for my time.
Enablement does not equal entitlement. You wouldn't expect, somehow, to be compensated for spacing out in a lawn chair or watching a movie. That's time you spent relaxing and enjoying yourself. You're doing the same thing when you play SWG. The ability alone to transfer something of that experience for profit shouldn't make it seem less absurd.
You gain credits and gear in your single player non-internet games, yet there is no clamor to try and sell those. The reason there is clamor in internet-enabled games is not because players don't "earn" the items the same way, but because there is a means to sell the items.
The only solution is for SOE to ban the buyers and do everything they can to catch the sellers too. They can set up stings if they want....just have SOE start auctioning credits on Ebay, and also have SOE players pose as buyers.
The problem with these credit sales is that they are ruining the economy. I read an article somewhere indicating that the companies selling these credits use sweatshop labor in China, and freely admitted to using 3rd party macros and dupes.
Dragonian wrote:
Giamai wrote:
Trance750 wrote:
I may get flamed for this, but I don't see why the big deal about "credit selling". I mean it's not hurting anybody and SOE is still making their money for use of the account, so if somebody wants to sell their character, then why the fuss? If somebody wants to buy a character, then what's the fuss? SOE is still getting their money, either way. So what's the fuss?
from sony's pov? bad PR...makes sony look like they are tolerant of things that have a negative impact on the game as a whole.
from an ingame pov...it promotes things like AFK camping the aa'kuan cave. in the case of the credit farming groups, they kill the lair as quickly as possible and leave the creatures messing up spawns for everyone else.
it makes newbies able to be insanely wealthy earlier which eliminates the market for lower end products for up and coming crafters to supply them with. so newer craftershavea harder time getting established...thus skewing the economy to be dependent more on long term vet crafters while blocking new ones.
selling accounts...particularly jedi... means that the number of jedi never goes down due to players leaving. instead the numbers go up as new players level their own jedi and ebayed jedi stay on the server. this is having a huge affect on pvp on most servers and not in a good way.
there's more...i just can't think of them right now
Agreed. As long as there is money in bad behaviour then that type of behaviour will perisist.
SWG is suppose to have an in-game player-run economy. Selling ingame items/credits creates an external economy which plays hell with the ingame econ. Credit farmers flood the universe with credits. This devalues them ingame. Prices go up (or stay up) unnecessarily and lower level players end feeling left out or forced to buy credits to keep up.
Exactly, and add to that the fact that the vast majority of the credits being sold are generated using dupes and third party programs, you have a real big problem.
Overall, it costs SOE money, because it discourages new players from starting in the game.
Trance750 wrote:
I may get flamed for this, but I don't see why the big deal about "credit selling". I mean it's not hurting anybody and SOE is still making their money for use of the account, so if somebody wants to sell their character, then why the fuss? If somebody wants to buy a character, then what's the fuss? SOE is still getting their money, either way. So what's the fuss?
- Virtual goods, real scams and Virtual World Phishing(how email scammersare stealing login information)
- MMORPG Worm A Threat to Virtual Swag and Worm Targets Online Gamers To Steal Virtual Stuff (a password stealing and keylogging worm aimed at the Priston Tale game)
- Know your Enemy: Tracking Botnets (it is top 9 reason to hack computers)
Stealing another players virtual goods and selling them is pretty much perfect crime.There is no laws that controls virtual good trade, because in first hand there shouldn't be trade - virtual goods are property of game companies.
Thanks for the links, resetgun.
Virrago has weighed in on this subject of pharmers/lootbotsas well, indicating that these are banned when verified, and that this happens frequently.
--Flatfingers
Message Edited by Flatfingers on 09-16-2005 01:39 PM
Tiliana wrote:
Quick note, sciguyCO pointed this out to me on another thread (as I'm looking for an offical response still)
The official statement as laid out in the EULA, section 7:
You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors.
So there we go. now how to go about reporting them... I ponder the following question...
For example, lets say a clear-as-day credit sale conversation takes place in game.
You say, "so I am going to give you 10 million credits, and you are going to give me $10 via paypal for it?"
xSellerx says, "yes, that is the deal, let's hope no one finds out!"
would I just /report them? Its not harrassment, and worse, would I get in trouble even though I'm just trying to stop a seller?
its just the type of thing SOE should be clear on, as clear as they are about other bannable offenses.
-Azerin Dangerflirt