Business And Economy Archive

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Hollow_Stone wrote:

Greetings all.

Well, with the nerf of the droid grouping this morning we are once again at an economy downfall. The Developers of SWG have allowed us to gain a multitude of money within the SWG world and allowed the SWG economy to get as large as we all know it has become, and then pulled the rug right out from under us. Full suits of Comp Armor for 250,000 credits. Full sets of buff packs for 300,000. Scyth Blades for 1 to 2 million. Adhessives for 300,000 to 1.5 million. Loot items for 100,000 to 4 million. The list goes on. And without beging able to obtain a good amount of money within the game we are being pushed into a recession. Things will not go down in price. The rich will rule most everything within the game and no new player will be able to buy a suit of Ubese armor let alone Comp armor. This situation is unacceptable and I cannot stand by any longer and allow it to happen without a fight.

I have put together a Star Wars Galaxies Petition. The purpose of this petition is to explain to SOE that we are irritated that they not only took away the solo group mission payouts from us but didn't even give us an alternative way of making decent amounts of money within the game. Players are leaving because of this and I have had enough.

Here is the URLto my SWG Petition: http://cogink.com/SWGPetition/ . This is a simple guestbook type of format where all you have to do is place your SWG username in the "Name" slot and your server in the "Location" slot. There is a comments field as well but it is not necessary to put any comments unless there is something you wish to say to the Developers of SOE because believe me, they will see it! I will see to it. Let's try to keep it as respectful as possible no matter how irriated some of you are at the solo group payout nerf and now the droid group nerf. And please don't bother signing if you do not agree with this as any signatures on the petition will be considered a vote of agreeance.

I implore you all to go and take 3 minutes of your time and sign this petition. It may make the difference in whether we can continue to live within the SWG economy or not.

Thank you all for your support and consideration.

Regards,

Message Edited by Hollow_Stone on 03-03-2005 04:37 AM

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This is one of the few things I resort to flat out insulting people about in this game.

You don't know of any other ways to make money? Take a look around! You speak of people selling things for high prices, get in on it! I can tell you, I've made many, many millions acting as a middleman, most recently, 3million by buying a AA for a certain about and selling it to a pre-arranged person for more.

You speak of high prices, you wonder why it got that way? Billions of credits being pumped into the economy. You cannot tell me that this doesn't increase inflation rates.

33,000 credits on 20 seconds. When the game launched, 200 credits in 20 seconds would be gold! gold! No-one knew, or [thought that they] needed these super items.

Why do you need that money? To buy what?

New players need armor you say, I certainly never did. The most armor I saw for weeks was bone armor here and there, never a fullset. Did gorgs and rills get beefed up? Heck no, new players today are convinced they NEED a superweapon, a full set of armor, and buffs to level up. That my friend is simply not true.

I quote you: "The purpose of this petition is to explain to SOE that we are irritated that they not only took away the solo group mission payouts from us but didn't even give us an alternative way of making decent amounts of money within the game."

My goodness, this is not at all out of context, so don't even think about going there. "alternative way of making decent amounts of money within the game."

1. missions


2. sales


3. loots


4. looting credits


5. resource mining


6. space looting


7. resource harvesting via scouting


8. middleman in sales


9. event promoter


10. gambling

JUST to name a few. Get off the forums, stop crying about not having money and get to it.

Did Howard Hughes make billions of dollars by crying about not having what he wanted? No. If he wanted somthing, he made it, he didnt go around wishing he had it.

Did Bil gates make billions of dollars by crying about it? No. He got to work, and ended up one of the richest men alive.

No one gets anywhere by crying about it.

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Hollow_Stone wrote:

Again you people never listen. I have plenty of money and plenty of ways of making money. This is about more than making money. It is about finding a balance within the game. If the Devs are trying to make everything "fair" then they should make it all fair. Bounty Hunters should only be able to get 10k missions like the rest of the elite professions. They should nerf the way personal vendors can sell items like on the Bazaar. People shouldn't be able to sell items for millions of dollars.

And as for my petition being stupid and a waste of time, you sure are spending a good amount of your time arguing with me about it. My petition was not a way to discuss this issue. We're doing that fine here on these boards. The petition was about finding out how many other people agree, not disagree, but agree that a balance needs to be established. We can discuss it plenty here. Even if it doesn't succeed it will at least make it's mark on the Devs and on these boards. Hell it already has made it's mark. I'm one of the most hated men on the SWG forums now, and why? Because I spoke my mind? Because I stated an opinion? Because I believe in something that you don't? It's sad really. Stop flaming me. If you do not agree, state it and move on. Oh and by the way, the 6 pages of people on Ahazi forum is mainly the same 4 or 5 people posting. Sure most are disagreeing with me and that's fine. They're entitled to disagree with me all they want. It doesn't make my petition any less valuable because it is speaking volumes for a lot of people within the game. For every person who is disagreeing there are 2 or 3 who agree. Go look for yourself. People are signing and continue to sign it. People want a balance. And there should be a balance. Why you are trying to undermind a balance within the combat profession payouts is beyond me. Maybe you should look at it a little harder before coming on here and flaming me. /rolleyes

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No. Your Idea of Balance is for everyone to have the same amount of money. This is completly insane. Bounty hunters should have 10,000 missions? Thats crazy, a level 4 Bounty hunter mission for 25,000 takes at least 15 minutes. Solo missions take 20 seconds. When solo missions take 15min like they should, bump them to 30,000.

Undermine a balance? Your a nut man, solo missions should not pay 30,000. Combat proffesions still make at least 100k-250k doing missions, like they should. You're saying a single person should get the money, intended for a group of 20? The only reason you pull 30,000 credits missions are because you're in a group of 20 people, the single combat proffesion is only intended to have missions totalling 10k or so credits.

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Rece111 wrote:

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Eaca wrote:

Wow, you have like 6 pages of people who for the most part disagree with you! That makes your petition all the more worthless, because in a real open forum, one where some socialist doesn't come thru and delete every post that doesn't agree with the premise, the majority thinks and says your idea is completely without merit. Your petition is worthless because there's no means of tracking who is really signing it. Your petition is worthless because it's not a poll, it's not a vote, it's a only a Yes vote system. Your petition is worthless because it was started by a closed minded fool who refuses to even hear the other side. You say time and time again we're not listening to you, well you're not listening to us. This petition of yours is a worthless endevor and a waste of your time, time better spent figuring out a new way to make money, even doing things you enjoy.

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LOL! A petition is not an open forum! If you don't agree with the petition, you don't sign it.

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Hollow_Stone wrote:

Again you people never listen. I have plenty of money and plenty of ways of making money. This is about more than making money. It is about finding a balance within the game. If the Devs are trying to make everything "fair" then they should make it all fair. Bounty Hunters should only be able to get 10k missions like the rest of the elite professions.

Funny enough, as a TKM, no droid and no group, I can get 12k missions on Yavin. You mean I make more than everyone except BH? Incidentally - that 12k takes me all of 30 seconds, if I go slow. A Bounty Hunter has travel costs, droid costs, etc that to ME means they deserve higher pay.

They should nerf the way personal vendors can sell items like on the Bazaar. People shouldn't be able to sell items for millions of dollars.

OK - Now I can see why you say down below you're the most hated man on the Forums. But I will politely tell you why this is a bad idea. You say we should turn Vendors into "like the Bazaar" - Do you mean a centralized system where people can see items, and buy them, then have to go to the specific planet and city to pick it up? Because if you ARE saying that - Most of us agree with you.

BUT, if you are saying we should limit Vendors to 25 items and only be able to sell for 6k maximum, you'd better hopeyou never get it - Because the Devs would need to find a way to replace every single crafter in the game, because 99% if not 100% of crafters would quit immediately. If you need reasons why, just ask, and I will post a response - I'm not going to here in case you meant the 1st example.

And as for my petition being stupid and a waste of time, you sure are spending a good amount of your time arguing with me about it. My petition was not a way to discuss this issue. We're doing that fine here on these boards. The petition was about finding out how many other people agree, not disagree, but agree that a balance needs to be established. We can discuss it plenty here. Even if it doesn't succeed it will at least make it's mark on the Devs and on these boards. Hell it already has made it's mark. I'm one of the most hated men on the SWG forums now, and why? Because I spoke my mind? Because I stated an opinion? Because I believe in something that you don't? It's sad really. Stop flaming me. If you do not agree, state it and move on. Oh and by the way, the 6 pages of people on Ahazi forum is mainly the same 4 or 5 people posting. Sure most are disagreeing with me and that's fine. They're entitled to disagree with me all they want. It doesn't make my petition any less valuable because it is speaking volumes for a lot of people within the game. For every person who is disagreeing there are 2 or 3 who agree. Go look for yourself. People are signing and continue to sign it. People want a balance. And there should be a balance. Why you are trying to undermind a balance within the combat profession payouts is beyond me

Possibly it's because that's NOT what you advocated in your original post? You said: The purpose of this petition is to explain to SOE that we are irritated that they not only took away the solo group mission payouts from us but didn't even give us an alternative way of making decent amounts of money within the game

When i first replied to your post, I explained how you were incorrect. There are MANY ways to make money in this game. You are focusing on only one aspect of possible income, and that does the Economy AND the players an Injustice. Solo groups are no longer in the game, and THEY are what caused the imbalance in the first place. Not Crafters. Not the Devs. You are wanting to empower people to stay Solo in this game. However, the Devs, and many players believe that we should be playing TOGETHER, and not apart. With that said, an individual can make a lot more money by themselves with lower level missions than when grouped in a Solo and go off by themselves. For example:

I go on my own, and get 5k missions that take 30 seconds. Factor in travel times, call it 1 mission every minute for 60 minutes. That's 300k per hour.

You join Solo group, and pull high end missions that pay 30k, split between 10 people. Harder mission takes 2 minutes to complete. Factor in travel, that's 6k every 5 minutes - Only 72k per hour.

Your Petition and discussions on the varying boards have brought out all the people who feel they are OWED something. Of COURSE they are going to sign your petition, because they see the possibility of easy money. Look to Oddjob187s post:

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Now I know nothing is going to happen about this since its full steam into the CU, but I pray to jebus that you guys as SOE figure out some way for a person who enjoys combat to make some serious credits because after CU happens you can bet your ass crafters will analintrude consumers on all the new weapons and armour that is coming out in the CU so I'm willing to bet your going to have some very upset people very soon.

(The people in this thread who are not complaining about combat professions have no means of keeping a steady income are A)Crafters/harvesters who spend hours on hours crafting B)People who made -millions- on exploits like the faction terminals that spawned missions inside citys which brings in C)The people who droped the FP on 3 AT-STs and run 30k missions and farm kyrats for months and months untill the issue was dealt/use AT-ST to get 30k payouts still or D)The lucky SOBs that actually managed to get a drop worth something and last but not least E)The veteran players who sold thier anti-decay kits for 10mil or more.)

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This is the type ofpeople who are signing your petition. Someone who feels they are owed something, and believes that everyone BUT Combat players have money. Who INSISTS that Crafters are the richest players in the game, when speaking from a Shipwright's point of view, nothing could be further from the truth. The type of player who obviously thinks the Veterans are holding him down. Ongratulations on solidifying the people who instead f learning HOW to make credits in game, want to get them for little or no effort.

. Maybe you should look at it a little harder before coming on here and flaming me. /rolleyes

I looked harder. Now please explain where I am wrong.

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Eaca wrote:

Wow, you have like 6 pages of people who for the most part disagree with you! That makes your petition all the more worthless, because in a real open forum, one where some socialist doesn't come thru and delete every post that doesn't agree with the premise, the majority thinks and says your idea is completely without merit. Your petition is worthless because there's no means of tracking who is really signing it. Your petition is worthless because it's not a poll, it's not a vote, it's a only a Yes vote system. Your petition is worthless because it was started by a closed minded fool who refuses to even hear the other side. You say time and time again we're not listening to you, well you're not listening to us. This petition of yours is a worthless endevor and a waste of your time, time better spent figuring out a new way to make money, even doing things you enjoy.

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The original poster of this petition is by definition a socailist.

Socailism is a mild form of communism, when everything related to business is regulated, including prices.

No, Socailism and Communism are NOT forms of government involving dictators, it's an economy type.

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Phaelyn wrote:

Funny enough, as a TKM, no droid and no group, I can get 12k missions on Yavin. You mean I make more than everyone except BH? Incidentally - that 12k takes me all of 30 seconds, if I go slow. A Bounty Hunter has travel costs, droid costs, etc that to ME means they deserve higher pay.

~OK I can see your point there. Something I didn't consider. However bear in mind that travel costs don't amount to much since JTL is out and traveling only costs a few thousand from planet to planet. And we're talking about 10k to 12k mission vs. Bounty hunter mission that pay hundreds of thousands. For Jedi hunts I agree the payouts should be very high. But for standard missions I don't think they should get as much as they do. Maybe I'm wrong. After all I don't know the Bounty Hunter grind very well. I went Bounty Hunter once but dropped it before mastering it.

OK - Now I can see why you say down below you're the most hated man on the Forums. But I will politely tell you why this is a bad idea. You say we should turn Vendors into "like the Bazaar" - Do you mean a centralized system where people can see items, and buy them, then have to go to the specific planet and city to pick it up? Because if you ARE saying that - Most of us agree with you.

~Didn't even think about that but it's a great idea.

BUT, if you are saying we should limit Vendors to 25 items and only be able to sell for 6k maximum, you'd better hopeyou never get it - Because the Devs would need to find a way to replace every single crafter in the game, because 99% if not 100% of crafters would quit immediately. If you need reasons why, just ask, and I will post a response - I'm not going to here in case you meant the 1st example.

~I'm not saying limit them to 25 items for only 6k each. But I am saying give them a cap on what they can charge for things so we don't find armor for 300k a suit or loot items for millions of credits. If I want loot items I go get em. I have bought an occassional rug thread or Nabooian Sculpture base piece but never paid millions for an adhesive or millions for a painting. I know how to get the loot I want to decorate my house or City Hall. But if the Devs really wanted to help the economy they could make the vendors have a little bit of restriction so they couldn't charge millions of dollars for items. As for all the crafters leaving the game what about the combat profession players leaving? They didn't seem to care about that when they nerfed the solo grouping without giving an alternative way to make a little extra credits.

"Why you are trying to undermind a balance within the combat profession payouts is beyond me."

Possibly it's because that's NOT what you advocated in your original post? You said: The purpose of this petition is to explain to SOE that we are irritated that they not only took away the solo group mission payouts from us but didn't even give us an alternative way of making decent amounts of money within the game

~That is exactly what I said and meant. A balance. They took away the high mission payouts without giving us an alternative way of making decent amounts of money. Balance. Take away the solo group, fine. But offer slightly higher mission payouts for elite combat professions that can handle those missions. I'm not sure why you see a difference with my original post and that statement I made up there.

When i first replied to your post, I explained how you were incorrect. There are MANY ways to make money in this game. You are focusing on only one aspect of possible income, and that does the Economy AND the players an Injustice. Solo groups are no longer in the game, and THEY are what caused the imbalance in the first place. Not Crafters. Not the Devs. You are wanting to empower people to stay Solo in this game. However, the Devs, and many players believe that we should be playing TOGETHER, and not apart. With that said, an individual can make a lot more money by themselves with lower level missions than when grouped in a Solo and go off by themselves. For example:

I go on my own, and get 5k missions that take 30 seconds. Factor in travel times, call it 1 mission every minute for 60 minutes. That's 300k per hour.

You join Solo group, and pull high end missions that pay 30k, split between 10 people. Harder mission takes 2 minutes to complete. Factor in travel, that's 6k every 5 minutes - Only 72k per hour.

~Yes, I understand you can still make 300k an hour or 500k per buff or whatever. All I'm saying is you swipe the rug right out from under someone without a cushion to land on and they get irritated. Not everyone wants to craft to make money. You keep saying there are other wasy of making money but some people don't want to play the way you play or the way crafters play. Some people don't like the boring grind of crafting. If you don't find it boring good for you but a lot of people do. And they shouldn't be forced to do something they don't like just to make the money they need to live in the game. I've heard a lot of people complain that the game feels like a second job to them. Some are leaving, some are considering leaving and some are just staying irritated and hoping there is some sort of balance implemented maybe with the Combat Upgrade to make things more even.

Your Petition and discussions on the varying boards have brought out all the people who feel they are OWED something. Of COURSE they are going to sign your petition, because they see the possibility of easy money. Look to Oddjob187s post:

---

Now I know nothing is going to happen about this since its full steam into the CU, but I pray to jebus that you guys as SOE figure out some way for a person who enjoys combat to make some serious credits because after CU happens you can bet your ass crafters will analintrude consumers on all the new weapons and armour that is coming out in the CU so I'm willing to bet your going to have some very upset people very soon.

(The people in this thread who are not complaining about combat professions have no means of keeping a steady income are A)Crafters/harvesters who spend hours on hours crafting B)People who made -millions- on exploits like the faction terminals that spawned missions inside citys which brings in C)The people who droped the FP on 3 AT-STs and run 30k missions and farm kyrats for months and months untill the issue was dealt/use AT-ST to get 30k payouts still or D)The lucky SOBs that actually managed to get a drop worth something and last but not least E)The veteran players who sold thier anti-decay kits for 10mil or more.)

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This is the type ofpeople who are signing your petition. Someone who feels they are owed something, and believes that everyone BUT Combat players have money. Who INSISTS that Crafters are the richest players in the game, when speaking from a Shipwright's point of view, nothing could be further from the truth. The type of player who obviously thinks the Veterans are holding him down. Ongratulations on solidifying the people who instead f learning HOW to make credits in game, want to get them for little or no effort.

~I don't see how doing combat missions is doing little to nothing ineffort. Grinding a craft is harder? Sitting in a house and clicking buttons on a crafting station is harder? Placing harvestors down to harvest resources is harder? Putting things into a factory and havingIT craft items is harder? How does that work? Combat professions go out, take the chance of getting killed, have to spend money on buffs, armor, weapons, stims to heal themselves, travel, repair on their vehicles, etc. and I don't see why you feel there is no effort being put into grinding combat missions.

"Maybe you should look at it a little harder before coming on here and flaming me. /rolleyes"

I looked harder. Now please explain where I am wrong.

~I am not trying to have a debate with you on who is right and who is wrong. That was never my intention. You made some very valid points. I just disagree with some of them as is my right just as you have the right to disagree with me. We're all entitled to our opinions. I just felt a need for balance with the removal of solo group mission payouts and I still do. I will continue to try and get signatures then submit them to the Devs on these forums in a thread and then we'll see how the discussion goes there. These discussions have been very good too because as a lot of you have stated, the Devs will consider changing things based on discussions in these forums. So these threads have done a lot of good im my opinion. I lit a fire under a lot of peoples butts and we're getting input from everyone. People who agree with me on the mission payouts, people who disagree with me and of course the immature flamers. I appreciate a good post like yours because at least you just stated your opinion in a respectful way and didn't just flame me because you disagree. I wish more people on these boards would follow suit. Thanx for the post.

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Message Edited by Hollow_Stone on 03-05-2005 04:15 AM

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Diorchas wrote:

Hollow,

What you're asking for is NOT balance. You're asking for a way for combat-oriented players to make ridiculous sums of money in a short period of time. You're asking for a money tree to replace solo groups.

Stop and think for a second. The devs removed solo grouping for a REASON. It was injecting far too many credits into a closed economy and therefor had to be removed. What the heck makes you think the devs would even consider replacing something purposefully removed?

I think it's really amusing that every time someone disagrees with you you squeal that they're not listening to you or that they can't read. The problem isn't our reading comprehension, the problem is with your shrill whining. You say you want balance but it's just a smokescreen. What you really want is your toy back. What you really want is to be able to farm credits at a ridiculous rate. What you want is easy money.

Well, this game IS easy money. It is not difficult AT ALL to make credits in this game. So instead of complaining about the devs fixing something that was obviously broken, why don't you just go play the game and have fun. This may come as a surprise for you, but people are not leaving this game in droves (contrary to your doomsaying). Those that remain in the game are generally very pleased with the new direction the devs are taking the game and I know for a fact that people are coming BACK to the game as well.

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I seriously doubt that anyone farming loot even looks at a mission terminal much less takes missions for credits. Why would they? It's much easier for them to camp a certain spawn AFK with their Legendary weapons than it is to take missions for a whopping 30k.

"Payout:Effort ratios?" It wouldtake muchmore effort (or at least time) to get rich doing 30k missions over and over again than it would to do any of the alternatives.