Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Half-life for Credits?
Dazzydoodle wrote:
Cuit wrote:
what if they just dropped the max amount of credits you could amass...Yes this would hurt the high end crafters
I think that earns you the nerfbot title. Especially as you've failed to demonstrate my large bank account actually hurts you or your play style.
a nice try but if take a look at the first word in the statement. "What" as in a question . . . as in "hey everyone, comment on this" I didn't say, they should drop the max amount of credits you could amass. I said what if they did? Would that bring prices down? I even recognized that it would have an affect on some people (which btw, it would affect me as well).
2 people commented why that idea wouldn't work . . . you however said OMG this affects me in a bad way . . . so I'm gonna belittle the poster. You didn't even say why it would be a nerf . .. you just cried.
When did I say that your bank account hurt my play style? Again you're grasping at straws trying to defend yourself for being an @$$. Why do I make that comment . . . because you still have not actually commented or explained any position (regarding my post) so how can I or anyone else actually take anything you say (or type) seriously?
Jedi Paddy unlocked 11/13/05, 11:00 pm est 
SakeO wrote:
If there is not a problem, why is this post continuously accompanied in this forum's Top 5 posts by posts complaining about inflation (and easy ways to amass millions or how you can't store over a billion).
Because too many people have absolutely no clue about laws of economics.
SakeO wrote:
KammaRocca wrote:
Because too many people have absolutely no clue about laws of economics.
How many economies do you know of that include such a high percentage of untaxed income sitting around in no interest savings accounts. Real economic laws don't apply here because several pieces are missiing. Most of those missing elements are on the drain or expense side.
On the contrary, real economic laws do apply. The iron hand of supply and demand rules in SWG just as it does in RL.
People see the prices of things like ADKs, Jetpacks, BARCs, RIS armor, double/triple capped weapons, and then start screaming "inflation, inflation". But it isn't inflation. These are some of the rarest items in the game, and also the highest in demand (they are also luxuries; they aren't required to play or enjoy the game). So it shouldn't be surprising that these kinds of items go for ridiculous amounts of money.The RLequivalent would bewhining about inflation because we can't afford to buy Ferraris or diamond rings.
Even if you somehow reduce the number of credits in the economy, these items will still beexpensive, and just as far out of reach of theaverage player,relative to everything else in the economy.
For there to be "real" inflation in the economy, there has to be a general increase in prices for virtually everything. But the fact is that the price for standard crafted items has been fairly constant since the game started. One exception has been armor, which has seen price increases due to changes from the CU and due to colorizationbugs infactory runs ofarmor (once the bug is finally fixed, I think prices for armor will come down some).
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
EdOWar wrote:
On the contrary, real economic laws do apply. The iron hand of supply and demand rules in SWG just as it does in RL.
People see the prices of things like ADKs, Jetpacks, BARCs, RIS armor, double/triple capped weapons, and then start screaming "inflation, inflation". But it isn't inflation. These are some of the rarest items in the game, and also the highest in demand (they are also luxuries; they aren't required to play or enjoy the game). So it shouldn't be surprising that these kinds of items go for ridiculous amounts of money.The RLequivalent would bewhining about inflation because we can't afford to buy Ferraris or diamond rings.
Even if you somehow reduce the number of credits in the economy, these items will still beexpensive, and just as far out of reach of theaverage player,relative to everything else in the economy.
For there to be "real" inflation in the economy, there has to be a general increase in prices for virtually everything. But the fact is that the price for standard crafted items has been fairly constant since the game started. One exception has been armor, which has seen price increases due to changes from the CU and due to colorizationbugs infactory runs ofarmor (once the bug is finally fixed, I think prices for armor will come down some).
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Ok, I will grant you that some laws (like supply and demand) apply but, enough don't that SWG economy is a very different animal than real economies. Essentially, ours is working badly and the social forces that would bring change in a real economy are absent. We can go around and around on this but, many people enjoy SWG less because of these issues that could be corrected by greater economic drains.
I would argue whether some of the things mentioned are truly luxuries. A nightsister bracer would be a true luxury while many of the high end gear may be nearly required to be competitive in that arena. Yes , they will remain expensive but, an element of my addmittedly rough plan would have evened the playing field as far as what "expensive" is substantially.
Either way, I still dispute the poster who brushed off the posts on the board because too many players do not understand economic laws. Alot of us understand them quite well and can see that some don't apply, some are missing and others indicate a problem. Bring actual discussion to the table, not broad flaming dismissals.
Message Edited by SakeO on 10-12-2005 12:27 PM
SakeO wrote:
KammaRocca wrote:
Because too many people have absolutely no clue about laws of economics.
How many economies do you know of that include such a high percentage of untaxed income sitting around in no interest savings accounts. Real economic laws don't apply here because several pieces are missiing. Most of those missing elements are on the drain or expense side.
Real economic laws do apply here because economics is simply the study of the distribution of limited resources in a system where there are unlimited wants. That applies here.Since there is no government involvement in the game, it also means that economic laws that apply here are basic. Economically speaking, the only place government has is to regulate monopolies (and there are no monopolies in the game, mission accomplished), to ensure that everyone plays by the same rules (mission accomplished) and to enforce property rights (mission accomplished). And ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves an economy.
There are also absolutely no drains in a real economy other than simply not spending. In a real economy wealth is created. Before you say taxes, consider that taxes are used not to make sure the rich don't have any money (although there are some people who think that should be the situation), they are used to provide common benefits that would not be provided in a non-centralized system. Tax money does not disappear and in many, many cases actually goes back into the public sector.
SakeO wrote:
EdOWar wrote:
On the contrary, real economic laws do apply. The iron hand of supply and demand rules in SWG just as it does in RL.
People see the prices of things like ADKs, Jetpacks, BARCs, RIS armor, double/triple capped weapons, and then start screaming "inflation, inflation". But it isn't inflation. These are some of the rarest items in the game, and also the highest in demand (they are also luxuries; they aren't required to play or enjoy the game). So it shouldn't be surprising that these kinds of items go for ridiculous amounts of money.The RLequivalent would bewhining about inflation because we can't afford to buy Ferraris or diamond rings.
Even if you somehow reduce the number of credits in the economy, these items will still beexpensive, and just as far out of reach of theaverage player,relative to everything else in the economy.
For there to be "real" inflation in the economy, there has to be a general increase in prices for virtually everything. But the fact is that the price for standard crafted items has been fairly constant since the game started. One exception has been armor, which has seen price increases due to changes from the CU and due to colorizationbugs infactory runs ofarmor (once the bug is finally fixed, I think prices for armor will come down some).
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Ok, I will grant you that some laws (like supply and demand) apply but, enough don't that SWG economy is a very different animal than real economies.
Name one actual law that doesn't apply. Do not say taxes as that is not intended as an economic drain.
Essentially, ours is working badly and the social forces that would bring change in a real economy are absent. We can go around and around on this but, many people enjoy SWG less because of these issues that could be corrected by greater economic drains.
No they couldn't. The economy is working fine.
I would argue whether some of the things mentioned are truly luxuries. A nightsister bracer would be a true luxury while many of the high end gear may be nearly required to be competitive in that arena. Yes , they will remain expensive but, an element of my addmittedly rough plan would have evened the playing field as far as what "expensive" is substantially.
No, what you have done is punish players who have invested more in the game by artificially limiting what they can buy. Limiting the amount of credits in game does not mean more items will be available. Limiting the amount of credits removes all incentive for crafters to produce top-of-the-line items. Limiting credits makes hard-to-get items more expensive because the economy would shift toward a true barter system (five barcs for an ADK) rather than the indirect barter system of currency (20 million credits for an ADK.)
Either way, I still dispute the poster who brushed off the posts on the board because too many players do not understand economic laws. Alot of us understand them quite well and can see that some don't apply, some are missing and others indicate a problem. Bring actual discussion to the table, not broad flaming dismissals.
Again, name one economic law that doesn't apply. And again I remind you that an economy does not require a government to operate. Honestly and truly people in real life don't understand the economy very well--it's not a flame, it's a fact.
Message Edited by SakeO on 10-12-2005 12:27 PM
Food,fuel,maintenance and depreciation/degradation are all drains that are underrepresented in SWG. I would also mention the non-existenttax dollars that are being paid out as mission fees and the various police and military forces.
KammaRocca wrote:
Real economic laws do apply here because economics is simply the study of the distribution of limited resources in a system where there are unlimited wants. That applies here.Since there is no government involvement in the game, it also means that economic laws that apply here are basic. Economically speaking, the only place government has is to regulate monopolies (and there are no monopolies in the game, mission accomplished), to ensure that everyone plays by the same rules (mission accomplished) and to enforce property rights (mission accomplished). And ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves an economy.
There are also absolutely no drains in a real economy other than simply not spending. In a real economy wealth is created. Before you say taxes, consider that taxes are used not to make sure the rich don't have any money (although there are some people who think that should be the situation), they are used to provide common benefits that would not be provided in a non-centralized system. Tax money does not disappear and in many, many cases actually goes back into the public sector.
Food isn't a required part of an ecomony, but if you're considering food and fuel as purchasable items that have one use and are gone, you have food, stimpacks, repair kits, slicing components, spices, faction points and so on. (If you don't think food is a vital part of the game, you haven't hung out with a bounty hunter or Jedi lately). Maintenance is an intended part of SWG that is momentarily turned off, but is in fact the game's biggest money sink according to an article by one of the devs. Armor, weapons, and clothing all degrade even though clothing is bugged. You can repair them with armor and weapon repair kits, though(another one-use item). Add to that the fact that even the best repair kit has a chance at completely destroying an item and there are plenty of sinks.
SakeO wrote:
Food,fuel,maintenance and depreciation/degradation are all drains that are underrepresented in SWG. I would also mention the non-existenttax dollars that are being paid out as mission fees and the various police and military forces.
SakeO wrote:
Food,fuel,maintenance and depreciation/degradation are all drains that are underrepresented in SWG. I would also mention the non-existenttax dollars that are being paid out as mission fees and the various police and military forces.
KammaRocca wrote:
Real economic laws do apply here because economics is simply the study of the distribution of limited resources in a system where there are unlimited wants. That applies here.Since there is no government involvement in the game, it also means that economic laws that apply here are basic. Economically speaking, the only place government has is to regulate monopolies (and there are no monopolies in the game, mission accomplished), to ensure that everyone plays by the same rules (mission accomplished) and to enforce property rights (mission accomplished). And ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves an economy.
There are also absolutely no drains in a real economy other than simply not spending. In a real economy wealth is created. Before you say taxes, consider that taxes are used not to make sure the rich don't have any money (although there are some people who think that should be the situation), they are used to provide common benefits that would not be provided in a non-centralized system. Tax money does not disappear and in many, many cases actually goes back into the public sector.
Yah, ok, dumbass here missed teh hypothetical...
But how is not limiting my bank account to 10m (or whatever massively dropped number) nit a nerf? Lower a weapon's output, that's a nerf. Decrease pet's combat effectiveness, that's a nerf. Lower a group's healing abilities, that's a nerf. Lower a person's bank account - how is that not a nerf?
SakeO wrote:
EdOWar wrote:
On the contrary, real economic laws do apply. The iron hand of supply and demand rules in SWG just as it does in RL.
People see the prices of things like ADKs, Jetpacks, BARCs, RIS armor, double/triple capped weapons, and then start screaming "inflation, inflation". But it isn't inflation. These are some of the rarest items in the game, and also the highest in demand (they are also luxuries; they aren't required to play or enjoy the game). So it shouldn't be surprising that these kinds of items go for ridiculous amounts of money.The RLequivalent would bewhining about inflation because we can't afford to buy Ferraris or diamond rings.
Even if you somehow reduce the number of credits in the economy, these items will still beexpensive, and just as far out of reach of theaverage player,relative to everything else in the economy.
For there to be "real" inflation in the economy, there has to be a general increase in prices for virtually everything. But the fact is that the price for standard crafted items has been fairly constant since the game started. One exception has been armor, which has seen price increases due to changes from the CU and due to colorizationbugs infactory runs ofarmor (once the bug is finally fixed, I think prices for armor will come down some).
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Ok, I will grant you that some laws (like supply and demand) apply but, enough don't that SWG economy is a very different animal than real economies. Essentially, ours is working badly and the social forces that would bring change in a real economy are absent. We can go around and around on this but, many people enjoy SWG less because of these issues that could be corrected by greater economic drains.
I would argue whether some of the things mentioned are truly luxuries. A nightsister bracer would be a true luxury while many of the high end gear may be nearly required to be competitive in that arena. Yes , they will remain expensive but, an element of my addmittedly rough plan would have evened the playing field as far as what "expensive" is substantially.
Either way, I still dispute the poster who brushed off the posts on the board because too many players do not understand economic laws. Alot of us understand them quite well and can see that some don't apply, some are missing and others indicate a problem. Bring actual discussion to the table, not broad flaming dismissals.
Message Edited by SakeO on 10-12-2005 12:27 PM
If you assert that our game economy should be treated differently from real economies, then how can you assert that it is going so poorly? What measure are you using to say that it isn't working. Obviously you are using some idea of a real economy to make that sort of assertion.