Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Ex-panded Spaceports
Page 3 of 3
NewEco
Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:11 am
#27
GloriousLeader wrote:Spaceports. RP'rs hate their static npc quick insta travel. ......
Message Edited by GloriousLeader on 02-07-2005 04:57 PM
very funny, what type of arguements pop up here, most frequently used is "immersion"
what you (and other RP people) call "immersion" is called paternalism by me. You want to spend 15 min on a shuttle port and RP your travel preparation, go for it !
if you want to spend a year on skill progression, pick up you bone amour and CDEF something, refrain from buffs and drugs and GO FOR IT !
BUT DO NOT EXPECT NOR ENFORCE US TO DO THE SAME THING
If i get board, because i have "one clicked" my master skill box, that is none of your business
If i quit, because i get board, that is none of your business
I do not screw with RP people and try to let them do their thing and avoid disturance of their game experience, but i expect you guys not to insist on things that would spoil thegame experience of the rest of the community
Message Edited by NewEco on 02-16-2005 11:13 AM
BriscoCounty
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:00 pm
#28
NewEco wrote:
" ... I do not screw with RP people and try to let them do their thing and avoid disturance of their game experience, but i expect you guys not to insist on things that would spoil thegame experience of the rest of the community..."
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
You are one of the very few then.Very manypeople who are not RPers that I come into contact with are very rude. Too many are verbally abusive and make fun of how roleplayers play the game -- how the game was intended to be played. If it wasn't a roleplaying game then they wouldn't have created hundreds of different clothing items and trinkets and things that has no real meaning unless they would be to aid in the IMMERSION [yes, the word you hate] of the game. If it was intended to be just an ub3r 1ee+ combat zone for 12 year olds, it would have been labeled a MMOGSG (mmo-gank-squad-game) instead of MMORPG. And if you don't like that fact, I don't care.
I'm sure I've been killed a hundred times by assorted groups of douchebags who for some reason want to ruin my style of gameplay simply because I'm having fun. I've had dozens of bikes destroyed by terrorist rebel tweenager min/maxers when I would be minding my own business. One group even chased me for approximately 25 minutes on bike when I was waiting for my "covert" status to click on because I was sick of getting my money stolen by children. And thats just one of many. All the while I was fleeing for my life (because I don't have 90-resist composite or anything that can protect me from a TKM/MasterDoc and a MasterRifleman/MasterPikeman who are out for blood) I was in conversation with them, trying to get them to leave me in peace and they would just taunt me and say things like, "F--- U imp. stop n ur dead".
This is the kind of treatment and "tolerance" I get for trying to have fun in my own way and the way the game was intended to be played.And I know a lot of people who are interested in roleplay, but too many people like the ones I just referred to keeping them from joining in. If its not someone being vicious and literally trying to harass RPers, then its someone else who rallys people against us usually through some kind of fallacy.
So now I have to ask... You stated: "... I do not screw with RP people and try to let them do their thing and avoid disturance of their game experience..." By your statement, you want us RPers to not disturb how others want to have fun on the game... Well what about those people who have fun by terrorizing people who have fun an entirely different way than they do. Their style of play is (I'm a non-rp and I hate RPers, so I willattack meek rp-ers>so should I let these people continue on doing what they like? In other words, should I condone people trying to take my fun away from me? Should I fight for their right to terrorize me and others? Or shall I continue my rhetoric about playing this gamehow it should have always been played, thereby removing the unwanted stimulus of a-holes insulting me and griefing me all the time. I ask you how that is reasonable that I should assume the former.
I'm not unreasonable. If non-rpers really didn't bother rp-ers, it may be slightly different. Sadly, that is simply not the case.Until there is an equity and a generous acknowledgement of the rp community, I see no reason to step off the soap box.There are a lot of good people out there, but the bad ones cast the shadow.
As for space travel... give us redesigned spaceports. I would like the option of going on an adventure just like the one with Han and company in Episode 4. Albeit on a smaller scale.
Message Edited by BriscoCounty on 02-16-2005 03:09 PM
Message Edited by BriscoCounty on 02-16-2005 03:10 PM
JTGAlpha
Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:41 pm
#29
Personally I think there should be personally instanced hangar bays where our ships are parked. I want droids and PC's and NPC's fixing and upgrading my ship for appropriate fees. I want to rent that hangar. I want customs agents checking my cargo. I want an ID number that I can give to other people to join me in my instanced hangar. I want to be ambushed in my hangar. I want to be able to land my ship anywhere I want, and I want there to be a chance that if I land someplace I'm not allowed for bad things to happen to me. I want the docking station to check my ID. I want a transponder code that I can fake.
But that's jut me.
NewEco
Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:56 am
#30
brisco, good post !
Many of your points are valid, nothing to argue about. I also encounter the l337 r00x0r kiddies quite frequently and dislike them strongly, but manage to ignore them more or less. Believe me, i consider it true a shame that the imperial RPers have to be overt to play their role (fortunately this will be changed in a few days ...) But actually that was not the topic, the topic was - to my eyes - to return to systems where so called immersion is enforced by the game mechanics that slow down. Examples are the 10 min Starport non-sense, the entertainer professions, the solo-group-nerf (do not understand me wrongly, i am absolutly pro group-content, that cannot be done solo, but i dont see the point in nerfing things that would be gone with the CU anyway. And Yes, you do understand me correct, i believe, that the entertainer professions a fundamentally wrong designed, because their ingame mechanics are dead boaring and "good entertainers" are 101% defined by out-of-game skills and which is the proof for the misconception). This stuff intendend to be for "immersion" but in fact its just nerfing paternalism.
I disagree that SWG is a MMORPG, to my eyes its a MMOPG without the "R" but with the option to facilitate an enjoyable enviroment for roleplayers. And thats exactly, what i am talking about. do not enforce me to play your play style! i do not exploit, i do no harress, but i do pay the same fee as you do and use the capablities the game offers, but i am not a hardcore starwars fan nor a hardcore roleplayer and i do not remember that the TOS, i signed, said something about, that i have to be a starwars roleplayer.
In your posting you indirectly admit you want to have your "immersion" things inorder to get aride of the non-RPer and that is what my critique is about. Actually thats paternalism in its essence. I tolerate your play style, please tolerate mine.
Do not ask for things that would make people leave the game and call it "immersion".
Many of your points are valid, nothing to argue about. I also encounter the l337 r00x0r kiddies quite frequently and dislike them strongly, but manage to ignore them more or less. Believe me, i consider it true a shame that the imperial RPers have to be overt to play their role (fortunately this will be changed in a few days ...) But actually that was not the topic, the topic was - to my eyes - to return to systems where so called immersion is enforced by the game mechanics that slow down. Examples are the 10 min Starport non-sense, the entertainer professions, the solo-group-nerf (do not understand me wrongly, i am absolutly pro group-content, that cannot be done solo, but i dont see the point in nerfing things that would be gone with the CU anyway. And Yes, you do understand me correct, i believe, that the entertainer professions a fundamentally wrong designed, because their ingame mechanics are dead boaring and "good entertainers" are 101% defined by out-of-game skills and which is the proof for the misconception). This stuff intendend to be for "immersion" but in fact its just nerfing paternalism.
I disagree that SWG is a MMORPG, to my eyes its a MMOPG without the "R" but with the option to facilitate an enjoyable enviroment for roleplayers. And thats exactly, what i am talking about. do not enforce me to play your play style! i do not exploit, i do no harress, but i do pay the same fee as you do and use the capablities the game offers, but i am not a hardcore starwars fan nor a hardcore roleplayer and i do not remember that the TOS, i signed, said something about, that i have to be a starwars roleplayer.
In your posting you indirectly admit you want to have your "immersion" things inorder to get aride of the non-RPer and that is what my critique is about. Actually thats paternalism in its essence. I tolerate your play style, please tolerate mine.
Do not ask for things that would make people leave the game and call it "immersion".
bizondele
Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:51 pm
#31
You are one of the very few then.Very manypeople who are not RPers that I come into contact with are very rude. Too many are verbally abusive and make fun of how roleplayers play the game -- how the game was intended to be played. If it wasn't a roleplaying game then they wouldn't have created hundreds of different clothing items and trinkets and things that has no real meaning unless they would be to aid in the IMMERSION [yes, the word you hate] of the game. If it was intended to be just an ub3r 1ee+ combat zone for 12 year olds, it would have been labeled a MMOGSG (mmo-gank-squad-game) instead of MMORPG. And if you don't like that fact, I don't care.
I'm sure I've been killed a hundred times by assorted groups of douchebags who for some reason want to ruin my style of gameplay simply because I'm having fun. I've had dozens of bikes destroyed by terrorist rebel tweenager min/maxers when I would be minding my own business. One group even chased me for approximately 25 minutes on bike when I was waiting for my "covert" status to click on because I was sick of getting my money stolen by children. And thats just one of many. All the while I was fleeing for my life (because I don't have 90-resist composite or anything that can protect me from a TKM/MasterDoc and a MasterRifleman/MasterPikeman who are out for blood) I was in conversation with them, trying to get them to leave me in peace and they would just taunt me and say things like, "F--- U imp. stop n ur dead".
This is the kind of treatment and "tolerance" I get for trying to have fun in my own way and the way the game was intended to be played.And I know a lot of people who are interested in roleplay, but too many people like the ones I just referred to keeping them from joining in. If its not someone being vicious and literally trying to harass RPers, then its someone else who rallys people against us usually through some kind of fallacy.
So now I have to ask... You stated: "... I do not screw with RP people and try to let them do their thing and avoid disturance of their game experience..." By your statement, you want us RPers to not disturb how others want to have fun on the game... Well what about those people who have fun by terrorizing people who have fun an entirely different way than they do. Their style of play is (I'm a non-rp and I hate RPers, so I willattack meek rp-ers>so should I let these people continue on doing what they like? In other words, should I condone people trying to take my fun away from me? Should I fight for their right to terrorize me and others? Or shall I continue my rhetoric about playing this gamehow it should have always been played, thereby removing the unwanted stimulus of a-holes insulting me and griefing me all the time. I ask you how that is reasonable that I should assume the former.
I'm not unreasonable. If non-rpers really didn't bother rp-ers, it may be slightly different. Sadly, that is simply not the case.Until there is an equity and a generous acknowledgement of the rp community, I see no reason to step off the soap box.There are a lot of good people out there, but the bad ones cast the shadow.
As for space travel... give us redesigned spaceports. I would like the option of going on an adventure just like the one with Han and company in Episode 4. Albeit on a smaller scale.
Give l33t combat dude a break, they're not smart enough to know any better.
Nadun29
Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:00 pm
#32
Id like to at least see a simple change In how we use our ships in JTL.
Like Have an option to at some place to quick load into an instance, like the corvette, where your ship is docked in a small hanger. And only you, or the members of your group could be in there with you. But totally have this optional, or some addvantage to this due to an extra short load between Starport to Shiphanger.
I just want more immersion in the SW universe!
Like Have an option to at some place to quick load into an instance, like the corvette, where your ship is docked in a small hanger. And only you, or the members of your group could be in there with you. But totally have this optional, or some addvantage to this due to an extra short load between Starport to Shiphanger.
I just want more immersion in the SW universe!
Message Edited by Nadun29 on 02-22-2005 07:02 PM
Xeovar
Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:10 am
#33
What we have here is a typical, basic difference between approach to MMO - is it a game or a world ?
There are different objectives when designing game and world.
Game - user experience is driving your desing - you make the game fun, fast paced with little influence the world bears on the player unless (s)he wishes to.
World - immersion is driving factor - you make world realistic, dynamic, action-reaction type of interaction between player and world allowing much more freedom but at the cost of consequence.
As far as it goes, SOE appears to develop the SWG as a game.
Examples:
combatants shooting factional npc without ability of players to intervene (fun for player, not realistic nor immersive, no consequence)
instant travel - makes you access "content" faster, kills any world realism in terms of distances, travel times, etc
No laws to protect citizens against villains but a pvp enabled switch to let you choose if you want to engage.
Unfortunatelly its almost impossible to design a world that will be a game or another way around, as a result they have to chose.
And again unfortunatelly (at least from my perspective), most MMO customers are gamers, not people who want to live the world.
It will take a good few years before we start to see difference between virtual worlds and massively multiplayer games.
I personally hope SOE gives us at least a bit of world touch... not that there is a true virtual world available on the market now.
There are different objectives when designing game and world.
Game - user experience is driving your desing - you make the game fun, fast paced with little influence the world bears on the player unless (s)he wishes to.
World - immersion is driving factor - you make world realistic, dynamic, action-reaction type of interaction between player and world allowing much more freedom but at the cost of consequence.
As far as it goes, SOE appears to develop the SWG as a game.
Examples:
combatants shooting factional npc without ability of players to intervene (fun for player, not realistic nor immersive, no consequence)
instant travel - makes you access "content" faster, kills any world realism in terms of distances, travel times, etc
No laws to protect citizens against villains but a pvp enabled switch to let you choose if you want to engage.
Unfortunatelly its almost impossible to design a world that will be a game or another way around, as a result they have to chose.
And again unfortunatelly (at least from my perspective), most MMO customers are gamers, not people who want to live the world.
It will take a good few years before we start to see difference between virtual worlds and massively multiplayer games.
I personally hope SOE gives us at least a bit of world touch... not that there is a true virtual world available on the market now.
Smart_Darwin
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:17 am
#35
So the arguments I am hearing is that making people wait around at spaceports add to immersion... Let's forget for a moment that every idea anyone has for altering this game can be construed as enhancing immersion. Let me smell the wookie standing next to me; it adds to the immersion (no offense to all you wooks out there, really). I think the amount of debate this topic generates (this is but one thread on this fourm devoted to this topic) would suggest that the immersion quality of this change is not universally agreed upon. So let us suppose, for argument sake, that this would enhance the feel of this game. Can you tell me this is the BEST way to do so? Shouldn't we be able to jump out of an AT-AT, herd some Nerfs, clean a droid, or have our own Leia-slave before making the traveling more realistic?
I am not sure that the goal of this or any other computer game is to be completely realistic... every charachter would be fat, pimply, wear glasses and get beat up alot. I know we aren't all nerds, but there are enough that many of us are getting kinda mad =) I want fantasy, like everyone else. If any of us was really craving more real-life we would go back to work. If we have to deal with immersion breaking shuttleport times, then think of it as a way to get you to the better quality role-playing opportunites. There are plenty out there, and very few are close to a shuttleport.
As for the cutscene idea, as other threads have indicated, this is not a great idea. These are great the first time, but seldom get watch more than once. Even the best of them (Dawn of war, OMG!!!) you don't watch every time you play the game. We don't need this, really.
Finally, the player run transport idea is not the best either. Who among us wants to play taxi all night? There may be a few, but I can't imagine that would be fun for very many people. Granted, throw enough credits around and you can get anyone to do just about anything, but I don't think we need another time sink. From practical experience, Planetside (another MMORPG) made allownaces for player sponsored transport. There was never enough transports when you needed one and if you relied on them to get you to the battle, then you had to be willing to traverse a great distance on foot (not fun).
Boscohark
Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:08 am
#36
Neekocha wrote:
I agree 100% with the original poster.
I understand that powergames love the 1min delay between shuttles but this doesnt make sense at all, break immersion and does not encourage people to use multiplayer ships.
Longer delays on NPC flights would make travel more challenging, people would have to think twice before going to the opposite side of the galaxy, they would maybe have to find player-driven transportservices, all in all this would add more depth and realism to the game, which is better in the long term.
The 1min delay is a popular change, but if the devs added the ability to become master of any given profession in just one click, i'm sure it would also be very popular and most people, taken individually, would like it. But for the overall interest, it would not be a good thing because it would make the game less challenging.
I am by no means a "power gamer" and I like the shuttle wait times and instant travel. This is due in part to, as other people have mentioned, time I have to plays the game.
On the other hand I do, on occasion whenI have the time, fly direct with my ship. I enjoy it. You know what I enjoy about it most? Its an "option". I can do it if I want to but do not have to always. If you are a role player you have that same option. Buy JTL and head everywhere in your ship though space. Or, if you do not want JTL RP your way through the instant travel. You have those options.
Why do we as a community always want to take away things instead of looking at compromise options?
On what the original post said about revamping of the Star Ports them selves I absolutely agree. Lot of potential content there for all to enjoy.
Regards,
Page 3 of 3