Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Galaxy Wide Vendor Search on TC POLL
Ackew
Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:19 pm
#27
Scudder wrote:
RasalTheWise wrote:
I agree with Straker. Its so simple. Just remove the prices. It allows people to search for the items they want, and if they want to put the effort into price comparing, let them go from shop to shop, checking prices. You don't see major department stores cramming all their items and prices alongside their competitors. I believe it is the duty of the consumer to price shop. Period.
TODAY, HERE, NOW... we have the Internet and yes, we can shop from almost every real life merchant from one place... our homes. In most cases we don't even have to leave our homes to get the merchandise.
And guess what... we use it most on the items that cost the most. Is there a world-wide price war that I don't know about?
If you're gonna compare SWG to RL then be honest about it.
If someone dumps alot of stuff on the global market at below cost then there is a simple solution: buy it all and resale it at your normal rate.
I asked a simple question earlier but I know have a more concrete opinon: change anything, anything at allin this game and half the players will love it and the other half will hate it. No, SOE did not grant every wish of every merchant. On the other hand they didn't grant every wish of every consumer either.
If it's really going to be a matter of life and death to your business and if you're never gonna make a profitagain then I guess all is lost, hordes of people will flock to one of those other games and this one will just have tobe scraped. Come on guys, get serious.
So you telling me if i went to my corner shop WHILE IN THAT shop i can serach the world for the cheapest items thet HE SELLS and then BUY them while IN HIS SHOP and he does'nt get a penny. I think not. Yes there are price comparions sites on the net but they only compare a FEW places NOT EVERY SHOP IN THE ENTRIE WORLD THAT SELL THAT PRODUCT. Yes to a LOT of players who play this game to CRAFT AND RUN BUSINESS its THAT SERIOUS. After this there will be the only the owner has admin nerf and that willbascilybethe end of crafting in swg if that has'nt happend all ready.
Message Edited by Ackew on 03-15-2005 10:54 PM
EdOWar
Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 pm
#28
Scudder wrote:
RasalTheWise wrote:
I agree with Straker. Its so simple. Just remove the prices. It allows people to search for the items they want, and if they want to put the effort into price comparing, let them go from shop to shop, checking prices. You don't see major department stores cramming all their items and prices alongside their competitors. I believe it is the duty of the consumer to price shop. Period.
TODAY, HERE, NOW... we have the Internet and yes, we can shop from almost every real life merchant from one place... our homes. In most cases we don't even have to leave our homes to get the merchandise.
And guess what... we use it most on the items that cost the most. Is there a world-wide price war that I don't know about?
If you're gonna compare SWG to RL then be honest about it.
If someone dumps alot of stuff on the global market at below cost then there is a simple solution: buy it all and resale it at your normal rate.
I asked a simple question earlier but I know have a more concrete opinon: change anything, anything at allin this game and half the players will love it and the other half will hate it. No, SOE did not grant every wish of every merchant. On the other hand they didn't grant every wish of every consumer either.
If it's really going to be a matter of life and death to your business and if you're never gonna make a profitagain then I guess all is lost, hordes of people will flock to one of those other games and this one will just have tobe scraped. Come on guys, get serious.
Yes, you can shop on the internet for virtually any item made by virtually any manufacturer in the world. And what is the one single most common criteria used for competing on the internet...price, and price alone. That is it...who sells gizmo Xfor the lowest price. And that's what galaxy-wide vendor searchingwill do too, if implemented poorly. It can reduce the merchant/crafting game to nothing more thanproducing the highest quality good for the lowest possible price--location, maintaining well stocked vendors, customer serviceand effectiveadvertising all go out the window.
That would be great for consumers...but crappy for merchants and crafters. Where is it written that only combat characters can be rich? Where is is written that crafters have to be everyone else's crafting-slave? Where is it written that crafters have to subsidize everyone else's enjoyment of the game? Players want the best, they want it right now, they don't want to have to shop around for it, but they damn well want the absolute lowest price for minimal effort. Geesh.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Esewo
Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:53 pm
#29
Phaelyn wrote:With the Galaxy Wide search soon to be a reality, I'm curious to see how Merchants are going to respond to it's implementation. It takes no Merchant Skill Points whatsoever to register into the system.Personally, *I* plan on eliminating all boxes in Merchant that I no longer need - Essentially the entire Advertising Line, because being on the Planetary Map or using a Barker Droid are now essentially a waste of time.How about the rest of us? How will you now conduct your business?
I have finally mastered merchant and am quite happy about the huge amount of space I have. Currently, the advertising bit is actually quite useful. I just turn on the barker droid and I get four customers an hour; two of which become repeat customers. My customer base builds very quickly this way. However, there will no longer be a need to build a customer base with the changes that are on test center.
The customer bases will quickly move from the loyalty of one shop owners to the huge Galaxy Wide Bazaar. The names of the persons who's items are purchased from will be forgotten as soon as people leave there stores. Quickly the arguments about who is the best weapon or armor smith in the galaxy will cease because no one can remember the names of the merchants.
I suggest counteracting this heartless corporatization of our merchant class, by allowing only a certain number of the items on merchants’ vendors to be displayed on the bazaar. The limitation will be dictated by the advertising branch of the merchant tree. It would allow novice artisans to display a small number of their wares on the bazaar, and would allow master merchants to display a large number of their wares on the bazaar (but not all of their wares). I feel that this is the best option for saving the advertising branch while allowing for the Galaxy Wide Bazaar to include private vendor listings.
Message Edited by Esewo on 03-15-2005 03:54 PM
Message Edited by Esewo on 03-15-2005 03:59 PM
RasalTheWise
Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:23 pm
#30
Scudder wrote:
RasalTheWise wrote:
I agree with Straker. Its so simple. Just remove the prices. It allows people to search for the items they want, and if they want to put the effort into price comparing, let them go from shop to shop, checking prices. You don't see major department stores cramming all their items and prices alongside their competitors. I believe it is the duty of the consumer to price shop. Period.TODAY, HERE, NOW... we have the Internet and yes, we can shop from almost every real life merchant from one place... our homes. In most cases we don't even have to leave our homes to get the merchandise.And guess what... we use it most on the items that cost the most. Is there a world-wide price war that I don't know about?If you're gonna compare SWG to RL then be honest about it.If someone dumps alot of stuff on the global market at below cost then there is a simple solution: buy it all and resale it at your normal rate.I asked a simple question earlier but I know have a more concrete opinon: change anything, anything at all in this game and half the players will love it and the other half will hate it. No, SOE did not grant every wish of every merchant. On the other hand they didn't grant every wish of every consumer either.If it's really going to be a matter of life and death to your business and if you're never gonna make a profit again then I guess all is lost, hordes of people will flock to one of those other games and this one will just have to be scraped. Come on guys, get serious.
Ok, ok, I retract the department store comment. There is no comparison to this economy and RL.
But, removing prices from the bazaar would be a happy medium for everyone. I know I'm generalizing here, but all non-crafters want is a way to find what the need quickly. And all crafters want is not to be easily undercut and have people visit their shop. Kill the prices on the bazaar. Said and done. Put the baby to bed. Wipe and flush.
Ojes
Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:41 pm
#31
RasalTheWise wrote:
But, removing prices from the bazaar would be a happy medium for everyone. I know I'm generalizing here, but all non-crafters want is a way to find what the need quickly. And all crafters want is not to be easily undercut and have people visit their shop. Kill the prices on the bazaar. Said and done. Put the baby to bed. Wipe and flush.
I believe my voice is in the minority on this (at least based on the responses to the first go-around of this update - and the current threads). However, I for one, NEED to have price be included in any galactic search that includes product stats. I am a Doctor by trade, and produce a fair number of buffpacks. Not the most on Flurry, but more importantly to this discussion, not the best on Flurry either. Prior to the veteran rewards coming out, my best ingredients would hit 890power with just under 3 hours duration and 30-32 charges.
The reason these packs were quite popular with my customers is that I have spent quite a bit of time controlling the costs of my operation so that I can sell these packs at a very low price. My pricing policy has been 500 credits per dose pretty much since I started crafting buffpacks seriously. My single sets run between 80k and 96k. At those prices, the buffing doctors keep their costs lower and they can either pass along the savings to their customers or pocket a little more for themselves. When sales get slow, or I have aged products that need to move, I put them on my Half-Off meds vendor at a 50% discount. I still make money even at that price level (though the margin isquite thin).
The point is that if a buffpack buying doctor does not have both halves of the picture (product quality as well as price), then someone is going to lose out on customers.
If they see quality without price, they will not visit my shop.
If they see price without quality, they would not visit some of the elite crafter's shops.
There are2 solutions that would work:
1)Full information to the customer on quality and price.
2) No quality/price information until you visit the shop. Simply present a list of vendors that are currently stocked with the item in question (by generic name, i.e. Enhance Pack D - Health). Perhaps give a number of the items that are on the vendor.
Of course, I try to be a realist so I know that what is in Test Center is likely to make its way to Live. However, I would simply like to reiterate that there are businesses in this game that would be hurt by presenting product quality information without including price.
bluejanus
Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:06 pm
#32
I am using the maximum number of vendors and I also enjoy the 20% maintenance discount you get with Master Merchant, so I'll probably stay one. Since it doesn't look like that the bazaar interface was overhauled, I'd expect there to be 100 pages in the galaxy bazaar.
PoetDancer
Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:17 pm
#33
I was on Test Centre today, and actually boughta blackcostume for my dancingonly because I was able to look at the Theed Bazaar, discover a vendor in the middle of the Tatooine wasteland, and purchase it. I applaud the versatility of the system, simply for informational purposes of where the item is located, what theprice may be, and the image and statistics available.
Frankly, most of the problems we have is because we don't have enough information as consumers, and so we have to use ad-hoc methods, such as the trade forums, or spambots to gain and provide information. I do not feel it is appropriate to use the forums or spamming accounts as a needed gameplay device. Why even have advertising skill lines at all if one can get a barker unattendee to advertise in lieu of a barker droid? Or advertise on the trade forums?
That being said, I do not feel that consumers need to be able to purchase vendor goods away from the place where the goods are stocked. What if I buy an item, but I am unable to enter the building where the vendor is located? To me, this system is rife with possibilities for grief, and will tie up CSR time. Plus, it makes the galactic market simply too fluid for merchants and crafters with limited playtime to set and maintain a pricing strategy. What about if the advertising line helps merchants to reach other planets? Master Merchant would be able to list on all ten (soon to be eleven), Ad4 on maybe 6, Ad3 at 5, etc. The number of planets can be determined by you all.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 03-15-2005 09:23 PM
maigy
Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:56 pm
#34
oh yes griefing will be so much fun with this system... imagine just for fun say placing a bunch of Krayt weapons on my vendor oh about 200-300 and placing them at a low price maybe 5k-10k each then.. oh did I emntion that this vendor is in the most remote place in the galaxy with a few statues or houses blocking the entrance. after 50 or so items sell just pull the rest off the vendor and delete it and pack up the house and the statues and move out.... that would rule, its not like I need the money anymroe, heck I'll be making better money when I switch over to a combat character anyway.
OH BTW for the poll part I will be dropping master Merchant, Master WS and master DE
Message Edited by maigy on 03-15-2005 10:57 PM
xixi
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:04 pm
#35
I think this system is going to end up working just fine, after a brief stretch of bumpy road. Griefers will exercize their imaginations, get banned, and the game will go on, as ever.
And before someone jumps down my throat, keep in mind I'm a Master Merchant who would just as soon use those skill points for something else if they're going to be worthless, too. However, darn near every existing profession had useless trees (look at smuggler, MERCHANT (even before the change), image designer, pistoleer, carbineer, swordsman, any jedi template, etc, if you don't believe me), but these things do get handled eventually.
Also, those of you concerned about undercutting and only the highest damage things being bought and no one else standing a chance need to realize you're making an assumption that these people's time, resources, patience, and attention spansare infinite. You're also assuming a potential buyer will be equally patient and attentive when they're standing at a bazaar terminal with a few thousand options to choose from. And don't forget location will STILL come into play, here--I may be forced to go to a different planet to find an item I truly need or want, but if I can find one relatively close to where I'm standing, that item may win, regardless of price or quality.
So there's checks and balances built into the system that will even things out.
Meanwhile, if this helps cut down on the starport barking, who would complain about that?
And I, for one, will be VERY happy to be able to spend less time shopping and more timefooling around.
As to the poll, I'll make a decision about what skill points to keep once this new system's had a chance to balance itself. And I'll continue to run my business the same way I always have.
bluejanus
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:12 pm
#36
The galaxy search might be somewhat manageable on the smaller populated servers. I shudder to think what it'll be like on the more populated servers.
xixi wrote:
I think this system is going to end up working just fine, after a brief stretch of bumpy road. Griefers will exercize their imaginations, get banned, and the game will go on, as ever.
And before someone jumps down my throat, keep in mind I'm a Master Merchant who would just as soon use those skill points for something else if they're going to be worthless, too. However, darn near every existing profession had useless trees (look at smuggler, MERCHANT (even before the change), image designer, pistoleer, carbineer, swordsman, any jedi template, etc, if you don't believe me), but these things do get handled eventually.
Also, those of you concerned about undercutting and only the highest damage things being bought and no one else standing a chance need to realize you're making an assumption that these people's time, resources, patience, and attention spansare infinite. You're also assuming a potential buyer will be equally patient and attentive when they're standing at a bazaar terminal with a few thousand options to choose from. And don't forget location will STILL come into play, here--I may be forced to go to a different planet to find an item I truly need or want, but if I can find one relatively close to where I'm standing, that item may win, regardless of price or quality.
So there's checks and balances built into the system that will even things out.
Meanwhile, if this helps cut down on the starport barking, who would complain about that?
And I, for one, will be VERY happy to be able to spend less time shopping and more timefooling around.
As to the poll, I'll make a decision about what skill points to keep once this new system's had a chance to balance itself. And I'll continue to run my business the same way I always have.
Puertoriqueno
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:22 pm
#37
I am all for this change. I may even stop selling in bulk and raise my prices overall to start selling single items. That would make alot of my competitors happy.
Perhaps we just need to get a dialog going and talk among ourselves about prices. If you guys are willing to lower your prices a little, I am willing to raise my prices to match. I am sure there are those that will not agree, but perhaps if most of us band together and agree not to overcharge or undercharge this could have minimal impact.
I am willing to bend if you guys are. We need to start a dialog on reasonable prices and see if everyone is on board.
bluejanus
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:28 pm
#38
Puertoriqueno wrote:
I am all for this change. I may even stop selling in bulk and raise my prices overall to start selling single items. That would make alot of my competitors happy.
Perhaps we just need to get a dialog going and talk among ourselves about prices. If you guys are willing to lower your prices a little, I am willing to raise my prices to match. I am sure there are those that will not agree, but perhaps if most of us band together and agree not to overcharge or undercharge this could have minimal impact.
I am willing to bend if you guys are. We need to start a dialog on reasonable prices and see if everyone is on board.
Well Egida, on your server you might have an advantage because the galaxy search system is going to be rather difficult to navigate. But most likely with comparable products with crafting classes like architects, prices will migrate to the lower pricing. It's next to impossible to establish a unified profession guild.
Puertoriqueno
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:36 pm
#39
bluejanus wrote:
Puertoriqueno wrote:
I am all for this change. I may even stop selling in bulk and raise my prices overall to start selling single items. That would make alot of my competitors happy.
Perhaps we just need to get a dialog going and talk among ourselves about prices. If you guys are willing to lower your prices a little, I am willing to raise my prices to match. I am sure there are those that will not agree, but perhaps if most of us band together and agree not to overcharge or undercharge this could have minimal impact.
I am willing to bend if you guys are. We need to start a dialog on reasonable prices and see if everyone is on board.
Well Egida, on your server you might have an advantage because the galaxy search system is going to be rather difficult to navigate. But most likely with comparable products with crafting classes like architects, prices will migrate to the lower pricing. It's next to impossible to establish a unified profession guild.
Perhaps, but I would like to think it is possible. Most of my friends are bulk sellers....as you can imagine I dont have alot of freinds in the community due to my prices, and we have been at war for a very long time over it. The word I am hearing is that this change will make it easier for us to sell individual items, so we will be willing to up our prices to better match the market. Now that comes from 22 crafters that I know on bria....we discussed this last night at length. One crafter dissented to be honest....cant win them all.
The point I am making is that the time for conflict between the undersellers and the gougers has passed. We all have to band together as a profession and work as a team to minimize the overall impact of this change. It is here, and it is not going away. We need to adapt, and I think unity in pricing is the only way to do it.....unless we all agree not to list. That is another option. I think that is more of a strike however, and I believe Sony would frown on that.
I would still like to think we can start a dialog on this for each server.