Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Post to this thread ONLY if you think that resource hoarding is not bad and should not be limited.

DrElJefeMD
Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:39 am
#14


Just a sneaky feeling, but I really would not be surprised if they (the devs) wanted to limit resource storage for database size/speed/stability issues as Pawlin opined on earlier


Regards


Dr. ElJefe MD (Retired)


Poldano
Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:32 pm
#15







DrElJefeMD wrote:


Just a sneaky feeling, but I really would not be surprised if they (the devs) wanted to limit resource storage for database size/speed/stability issues as Pawlin opined on earlier


Regards


Dr. ElJefe MD (Retired)








Actually, I have that same sneaky feeling.


Saego, Wanderhome.

Lotifo
Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:03 pm
#16


Unless they're looking to nerf crafting into oblivion, they won't touch a thing.


And it is essentially limited already - you can't end up with infinite amounts, you can only get as much of a resource as you have lots, harvesters, concentration of said resource, and time.


Practically speaking, how would they do that to begin with? If they reduce item storage, that hits everything, not just resources. Even If they also lowered resourcestacks from 100k all that would do is put the people with spare room on their vendors in a very profitable position. What does that leave, resource decay? That would just be stupid. I could understand decay on organic resources but since when does steel go bad?

Leana_Txorana
Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:18 am
#17

Just a sneaky feeling, but I really would not be surprised if they (the devs) wanted to limit resource storage for database size/speed/stability issues as Pawlin opined on earlier




This might be a viable thought for another thread, but if you look at most of these threads, it is people who dont like or understand supply/demand economic policy. Anything that fosters competition, hard work = high reward, long term crafters more succussful than new crafters, tends to generate a log of posts on how bad these things are.


Not the terminology used "hording", this has basic negative conotations. Use "wareshoused goods" and the negative connotations are gone. I just see this post related to the other "hording is bad" posts that were started about the same time.


Plus, to save database space you would need to reduce the total number of items everyone could have so the hints that database space was an issue would not be targeted specifically at hording, there would be lots of threads on house storage/harvester hoppers/etc holding too much stuff as well as size of bank deposte box is too big. there would be plenty of evidence in the other threads that hints of database problems is being heard.



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Dragonian
Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:49 am
#18


First off, I don’t think it’s a server issue. In beta resource crates used to hold 250u instead of the 100k we have today. Factories had hopper capacities of 1000 and there were no ‘lots’ at all.


Few remember the punk that caused a literal server melt (as in completely corrupting the server database requiring a character wipe) with his field of havesters and factories. I can’t remember his name but he is why resouce crates cap is at 100k now and factory hoppers cap at 100 and a limit of 10 lots per toon.


If it were a server issue they’d most likely talk about increasing the resource crate cap to like 200-250k.


If it were a server issue they’d might talk about decreasing the size of factory hoppers but, I doubt it.


If it were a server issue they’d better not talk about decreasing the number of lots per toon.


No more likely it’s this percolating notion that crafting is a point and click game with no player skills needed. There is a rising tide of this type of player and that’s just unfortunate.


I think most of us crafter types like the sub-texts within the game mechanics. It’s not about just grinding crafting xp to train up skill boxes. That part is fairly easy (almost too easy). Consider the following.



  • The art of collecting just the ‘right’ materials.

  • The art of keeping up on current resources and jumping on opportunities.

  • Going the extra mile to get those skill tapes for those extra experimentation points to be able to produce superior products.

  • The art of arranging your shop to attract customers.

  • The art of customer service.

These are lost on way too many. Most noobs these days just wanna make uber stuff with the click of the mouse and be done with it. They justify this attitude with arguments such as "Hey @$#hole, I paid my money, I ground my way to master, I want my phat loot now!"


And that is just sad. This type of player can’t engage is a decent argument and sure hasn’t got the staying power of most of us SWG junkies and isn’t going to be around for more than a couple of months anyway. No amount of appeasement would keep these jerks around any longer anyway, so as a revenue stream, they suck. Why SOE would even listen to these punks is beyond me.


And as to the original question? The only valid reason for resouce hoarding could be bad would have been if the resource spawns were finite as they had originally been designed to be.


In beta, when a resource spawned, there was only so much of it on a planet and when it was all harvested it popped. Whether it took a few hours or a month didn’t matter. But the dev’s seriously underestimated how fast peeps could pull stuff up. In this situation, peeps were pulling it up in matter of hours and hoarding it and lording it over the rest of us. No matter how much the dev’s increased the cap on the spawn it would be mined out in a manner of hours and that was only using the personal harvies. The mediums and heavies would have made it even worse. So the dev’s finally desided to quit screwing around with that mechanic and took the cap off all together and put a 5-8 day timer on spawns.


So as it stands now, you can pull up as much as you can in the time given. No one can deny you. No one can corrner the market on a spawn. Therefore, there’s no downside to hoarding material. And really, since there is no cap, one couldn’t really be said to be hoarding anything since it’s available to all.


Just my 2c worth.




-----
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bluejanus
Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:10 pm
#19



DrElJefeMD wrote:

Just a sneaky feeling, but I really would not be surprised if they (the devs) wanted to limit resource storage for database size/speed/stability issues as Pawlin opined on earlier

Regards

Dr. ElJefe MD (Retired)





Yeah, right. The devs always tried to pull that database issue thing with us before about raising storage limits. Lo and behold with a new development team we got more storage. Did they get a better implementation of a database engine and more storage? I highly doubt it. I suspect they had additional space and were saving it for an expanded playerbase which they were going to magically create from their publishes. And the change in structural decay was bound to cause large numbers of structures and their items to stay in-game while before they would disappear. And the devs knew this would occur. Doesn't sound like they're too concerned about database impact of players who quit.





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Vermicious_Knid
Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:19 pm
#20


These things always come down to the same issue...


Those who can't or won't whine about those who do.


It's no different from real life, everybody wants everything handed to them.


Look at every nerf over the life of the game. No matter what "problem" it was suppsoed to "correct" (or "rebalance"), the top people were on top again and the whiners were whining again within a couple of days.


You can't nerf brains or ambition.



-




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Pawlin
Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:45 am
#21




Dragonian wrote:

...


Few remember the punk that caused a literal server melt (as in completely corrupting the server database requiring a character wipe) with his field of havesters and factories. I can’t remember his name but he is why resouce crates cap is at 100k now and factory hoppers cap at 100 and a limit of 10 lots per toon.


If it were a server issue they’d most likely talk about increasing the resource crate cap to like 200-250k.


If it were a server issue they’d might talk about decreasing the size of factory hoppers but, I doubt it.


If it were a server issue they’d better not talk about decreasing the number of lots per toon.


...





Its not just a server issue.Its not just an economy issue. But I bet that both those things impact their decisions and views on this stuff.


They aren't going to give us unlimited storage / items / lots certainly because that would kill the server. SImilarly they won't increase storage 2000% or 100% because it would cause a significant increase in the workload on the servers. And at the top level they may be concerned about the impact of changes that might cause incremental marginal increases in the amount of stuff in the game. They have to set our storage limit somewhere. And they don't make those changes lightly. It took them well over a year to increase storage / lot from 75 to 100. Simply put: more hording means more stuff in the game which has an impact. So they might want to limit hording to keep it from having a negative impact.


And even if we don't see server problems that doesn't mean that SOE isn't watching it. They might be dynamically adding server capacity as needed to make sure we don't see problems. They run the game on giant server clusters with many hundreds of nodes. They can add inividual nodes if needed. And if they have to add 1% server capacity then thats +1% cost to them. So ya I bet they care about that.


They are unlikely to talk about decreasing things like lot limits or storage limits because those are big nerfs that people will really flail and scream over. And it doesn't seem things are currently 'broken' so theres no need to take such measures. I know I'd throw a real spoilt-todler-in-walmart style tantrum if they suggested nerfing our lots or hopper sizes. Wouldn't most crafters?


Thunderheart said specifically a while ago that they would not increase crate sizes because "the economy would suffer" but he did acknowlege doing it would benefit the database.


So thats good evidence right there that they have an opinion that heavy production has a negative impact on the game economy and crafting as a whole.






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GraySeven
Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:47 am
#22


The crafting system REQUIRES resource hoarding. Quality resources don't all spawn at the same time or frequency, so it can take time to collect the neccessary resources to make quality items.


Hoarding isn't a problem, and I don't see why anyone is worried about it.





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Leana_Txorana
Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:43 pm
#23


More importantly, STOP lot trading. NO single person should have 60+ lots at their disposal.






Dont you mean no single person should have more the 10 lots?


Not to mention you can get hundreds of lots without lot trading. There are plenty of toons who do not use their lots, rent them. You get the same effect without having to have a toon on another server trading lots.



www.usa4usa.blogspot.com
=========================================
There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those that don't
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
================================
3.14159 + Ice Cream = Pi ala mode
Zodiac-B
Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:30 am
#24


Should resource hoarding be nerfed, absolutely not. This is one of the biggest factors that separates new crafters from the vets. No new crafter should Master and then automatically be 100% competitive. 90% competitive, yes, but not 100%. Besides, the good resources do not spawn often enough where this makes sense.


My suggestions would be to put a time limit on the 30k resource vet rewards. i.e. Must claim your resources within a week of taking it.


More importantly, STOP lot trading. NO single person should have 60+ lots at their disposal.







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mattos90
Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:46 pm
#25

If you do lot trades and use your own character's lots, you could only have 80 lots worth of structures down. An account can only have 8 characters.



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MTVGeneration
Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:30 am
#26

I don't think it's bad. In fact I thinkit shows very goodentrepreneurial skills



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