CUEmu - Thread Posts

Pawlin

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:04 pm

Cafa wrote:

...In your opinion, if prices change proportionally to credit nerfs what exactly was accomplished by nerfing solo group missions?

My take on why SOE would do it:

They need to balance the amount of money coming into the game versus the amount going out. If they do not do this then it will cause real inflation. Now as pointed out that isn't a problem for the people making the money, but it IS a problem for the newb starting on day one with 1k credits and missions paying 500-1000 credits. And it is also a problem for the various people who do not use solo groups, i.e. people running 'normal' missions for the payout levels SOE first intended. So the point of nerfing solo missions would be to keep the economy stable and specifically to keep it from hurting new players and those who don't use solo missions.

The other way they may look at it is that the solo missions were not 'supposed' to work that way. AS in it wasn't the intended way. Now this is really up to the viewpoint or opinion of whoever is defining how things are 'supposed' to work. But if they decide it is 'broken' then they'll 'fix' it.

So in short 2 reasons that I think SOE would nerf solo missions: To keep the economy stable. To fix what was broken (by their definition).

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Bluechiss

Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:53 pm

#15

Just so you all know, i wasnt angry or anything when typing. I dont mind the group nerfs or whatever, i just needed a few others opinions on some things (i play this game because of the economy. This thread has made my day because i love sonversation like this)

Hey there. Thanks for the feedback guys.

Now to respond in a random manner because i am too lazy to open up another window

1st- I earned my money the honest way and never cheated out anyone on anything. I have given 10's of millions of credits worth of stuff to friends etc.

2nd- Someone said i was angry or something because my money wasnt what it was worth before the nerf. Actually on the contrary, my money value probably tripled as the credit flow dropped allot. And i am actually not angry one bit. I dont like jedi and have grinded out many proffesions. I just use credit wealth as another milestone. Prices have dropped a bit on my server actually.

3rd- The thing with noobs is back before the nerf, you could join a guild, level up real quick and could be doing solo missions (note- i hated these things). So prices didnt matter much as i have found most non-crafter players have usually under 10 million cash.

4th- As for the bazillionaires- i dont think it matters if they have a billion or 100 million. Its not actively in the market (technichly it is, but shhh!) so it doesnt effect the average player. If you have that much money, you are probably a very expierenced player with ties to major crafters. You probably wouldnt spend that much money.

5th- money drains- I doubt they will affect the very rich players. If i were to never make another dime, i could run 40 harvestors for 70 months before becoming broke. Its just not feasible to remove that many credits very fast.

6th- Pawlins 1st post- (dont mean to single you out, you just make a good point

)

****"Why did everyone complain about the money system/infalted economy?"

Some people don't have as much money as they want, can't afford the things they want and don't know how to get as much money as they want.

If you're a newbie then its easier to understand. I know if I started on day 1 and saw armor selling for 250k, tapes auctioning for 10M and my missions payed out500-1000 credits it might seem an impossible task to get enough money to afford what it seems everyone else has. And no matter what you do as a new person, it will be hard initially to compete with the established people who've got a year plus head start on you.****

Well, there are haves and have nots. Things shouldnt just be handed to people because they dont want to work for it. And i do sympathise with newer people, but you have to start somewhere. People complain about no content.... well, working to where you have a sucessful business/ money situation is content enough for me

. See Cafa's post for my opinion on the matter.

Just like to add that these solo groups have been around forever it seems. I wonder why the Devs did this now instead of, oh lets say, A YEAR AGO?

I guess what i was trying to say is there isnt a gold standard or something as in real life. Its a game and money appears out of nothing. Didnt really matter if armor was 300k since you could make 10 million with it. High prices didnt mean anything because money was not hard to come by.

And DashDraco- A crafter can only have 12 experimental points and any crafter that gets his suit to 0/1000 should be shot

. But i do agree, turnover for tailor and BE clothing is a must.

Please keep up the discussion!!!

Minass

------------------------------------------
Minass (was minas but i hate trandoshans so now im minass)
Former Master Bounty Hunter
Retired PvP'er
Master of Opportunity
Vendor: -3459 -5668 Mos Nova, Tatooine (Offers Go Here!)

Cafa

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:03 am

#16

IntoTheGarbage wrote:

Bluechiss wrote:

I play this game for the economy and i didnt really understand why many people found a problem with it....

I then picked up crafting and did quite well by collecting uber resources and 12-point suits for it, doing the proffesion for 2 weeks and then quitting and selling everything (repeat). Also PSG manufacture (i love those little guys!!).

My record money height was 218 million. It is currently at 140 million.

I have about 50 million in ready-to-sell goods (i re-rolled and took away my vendors), a full RIS suit and a speed-capped swordsman.

I did none of this through exploiting or underhanded dealings. I did it all the hard and honest way. I

For my part, I thinkyou have spelt outone of the problems right there. The economic game is just way too easy. I am in the same boat as you, and I want the economic game to be more challenging.

But then you have a ton of what I see here, people griping that a 3-week old player doesn't have the ability to compete in crafting against an 18-month player. Nominally, I''d say, "DUH".

The same issues popped up when the devs changed and remove the resource caps on crafting for a whole day. The "Chicken Littles" of the community saw the sky falling. It didn't fall, and all they accomplished was pissing off the developers who treated us all with a broad stroke of penalty for the action of a vocal minority.

How do you make the entry into the market viable for new players without the perception that it is impossible to achieve tops at your profession? Personally, I think the player driven economy does it just fine, but the saying that "reality is 90% perception" may be true in this instance and I have blinders on.

Fivo Asia

- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

mistereous1

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:16 am

#17

Narreem0884 wrote:

I can make enough to get by, but I can never hope to make the millions necessary to buy the good stuff for my profession, the NS Energy Lance being the foremost thing on this list. I'd have to spend days in space to make the necessary amount of cash and though I'd like too, I have other things to deal with.

Not singling you out, I just wanted this one particular statement. I'll come back to this.

The whole solo group nerf was a crock. Prices are too high, money was too easy to come by. Horsestein...cow chips...bull pucky, everything was directly proportional...need a suit of comp it would take you roughly ten missions to get it. IF this whole solo group nerf works as intended, missionrewards go down and eventually crafted goods go down with it and guess what...it will still take you ten missions to get the same piece of comp. So you're paying 100k instead of 300k big deal, it's directly proportional to the effort it takes you to attain credits. It's easy to get credits...prices are higher.

In the long-term, won't make much difference, in the short-term, you've got one extreme in Nareem who feels like he can't compete so he may quit on the other hand you've got bluechiss who is having everyone point at the credits he EARNED and trying to figure out how to take them away from him...The difference between the haves and have nots is greater because bluechiss' 150million credits are now worth more because credits are harder to attain. It's going to get really bloody when the crafted goods start dropping, because the resource prices are still going to be last, so lots of people won't be able to afford going into a crafting skill if they don't already have millions of credits. So in the short-term, players will for one reason or anotheer likely leave the game...oops too late.

Please Make all Deliveries to vendor Corellia 314 -3356

Cafa

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:20 am

#18

mistereous1 wrote:

Not singling you out, I just wanted this one particular statement. I'll come back to this.

The whole solo group nerf was a crock. Prices are too high, money was too easy to come by. Horsestein...cow chips...bull pucky, everything was directly proportional...need a suit of comp it would take you roughly ten missions to get it. IF this whole solo group nerf works as intended, missionrewards go down and eventually crafted goods go down with it and guess what...it will still take you ten missions to get the same piece of comp. So you're paying 100k instead of 300k big deal, it's directly proportional to the effort it takes you to attain credits. It's easy to get credits...prices are higher.

In the long-term, won't make much difference, in the short-term, you've got one extreme in Nareem who feels like he can't compete so he may quit on the other hand you've got bluechiss who is having everyone point at the credits he EARNED and trying to figure out how to take them away from him...The difference between the haves and have nots is greater because bluechiss' 150million credits are now worth more because credits are harder to attain. It's going to get really bloody when the crafted goods start dropping, because the resource prices are still going to be last, so lots of people won't be able to afford going into a crafting skill if they don't already have millions of credits. So in the short-term, players will for one reason or anotheer likely leave the game...oops too late.

In your opinion, if prices change proportionally to credit nerfs what exactly was accomplished by nerfing solo group missions?

Fivo Asia

- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Narreem0884

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:49 am

#19

ofim wrote:

High end items will always take high end cash, this nerf or that nerf will never solve it. Things like NS energy lances are sapossed to be very rare for people to have, so I would hav to say that the DEV's knew only the ultra rich....or the ultra lucky would ever have items like that. Thing is you never "need" items like that, you "want" items like that.....there nothing more than a shinny nickle at the end of the tunnel keeping you interested.

High end items are supposed to be difficult to get, this is true, but it's kind of ridiculous when the NS Energy Lance components can only be looted from enemies that can't be killed by a pikeman except with the lance in question, thereby forcing pikeman to buy the lance. The item is priced at such a high range that only the ultra-rich can afford one, effectively removing most means to get one.

They should least make it possible for any profession to loot this. Nothing in the game, aside from the largest of creatures (Krayts) and installations (turrets and the AT-ST), should ever have 100% resistance to kinetic, energy, or blast damage types. Of course this still should not be something that can be soloed by a person, Jedi or not.

"Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett - Tales of the Bounty Hunters
Narreem the Wookiee
Rebel Colonel, Vortex Ace Pilot, Master Pikeman

mistereous1

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:52 am

#20

Cafa wrote:

In your opinion, if prices change proportionally to credit nerfs what exactly was accomplished by nerfing solo group missions?

Fivo Asia

That is my point...rather than worrying about what the value of a credit should be, why not work on real issues. I'm hoping it's part of some bigger plan that will become revealed some day and it will become apparent. As things are now, the only thing nerfing solo missions does is changes the payout rate which long term will bring the goods rate into line with it.

Look at it:

Nerf Solo-group payouts.

Fighter classes make less money

Fighter classes can no longer buy crafted goods

So Crafter sales drop off.

Crafter can no longer afford resource contracts./loot

So the price of resources/loot lower

If there's something I'm missing please point it out to me.

The solo group long-run should cut everything by about 1/3 the new maximum payout. In reality it's going to probably be a little harder in the future because of 2 things. The JTL effect on resource prices (radiation is no longer a one use item)is going to be an adverse effect to the lowering of resources. And people will lower as much as they have to, so the crafter will lower close to 1/3 but in reality be slightly higher.

Please Make all Deliveries to vendor Corellia 314 -3356

dbl90

Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:33 am

#21

I liked solo groups, a way to have contact with people while doing the dull monotany of grinding cash....

The Devs have created a permanant gap between new users and super rich veterans in the economy....

It matters not; I'm a poor ch was always going to be any way...too lazy to grind out credits, too buzy jumping off waterfalls and riding around aimlessly.

Davionn Indar (RBN)
CH/TKM

mistereous1

Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:27 am

#22

Pawlin wrote:

Cafa wrote:

...In your opinion, if prices change proportionally to credit nerfs what exactly was accomplished by nerfing solo group missions?

My take on why SOE would do it:

They need to balance the amount of money coming into the game versus the amount going out. If they do not do this then it will cause real inflation. Now as pointed out that isn't a problem for the people making the money, but it IS a problem for the newb starting on day one with 1k credits and missions paying 500-1000 credits. And it is also a problem for the various people who do not use solo groups, i.e. people running 'normal' missions for the payout levels SOE first intended. So the point of nerfing solo missions would be to keep the economy stable and specifically to keep it from hurting new players and those who don't use solo missions.

The other way they may look at it is that the solo missions were not 'supposed' to work that way. AS in it wasn't the intended way. Now this is really up to the viewpoint or opinion of whoever is defining how things are 'supposed' to work. But if they decide it is 'broken' then they'll 'fix' it.

So in short 2 reasons that I think SOE would nerf solo missions: To keep the economy stable. To fix what was broken (by their definition).

Problem with this idea is where the money goes in and out from. Do you really think the super rich have any incentive to spend money??? They still have their hundreds of millions and it's not going anywhere, if prices were set around them, then everything would be millions of credits. Prices were set around the mission rate, as I've said before, IF this is the purpose of "correcting" the nerf, AND it works as intended, you'll still have a situation where the proportion is the same. Who cares if it costs you 100k or 300k it still equals ten missions and the effort involved. What's the differnce?

This hurts the newer players because financially they no longer have a way to catch up. I lucked up and the solo group nerf came into play right as I was establishing my crafter. If I didn't, there would have been no way I could afford the resources needed to compete. Even then there was a huge cap on what I was able to get if someone wanted it more.

It may not have been what they intended, but it happened, and the economy wrote itself around it. To force it back the way it was is one of the other problems in the game. A lack of vision, isn't the world supposed to grow and evolve as players grow and evolve?

Please Make all Deliveries to vendor Corellia 314 -3356

Aeron-Blackthorn

Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:17 am

#23

I don't doubt you did do it the right way and for that I applaud you. But what you are missing here is now even low end items are out of anew players range.

Imagine if you started right now off the street and bought SWG. You do your little droid missions and *flex* because now you got some skills. You can do higher missions now but you get your but kicked everytime that Nuna hauls butt at you.

Anyway you hear that Bone armor is a good starter armor so you head off to the Bazaar to find some armor.

6k for gloves and that is the only thing listed on the bazaar

...

You have 5k in your pocket right now

Or not to pick on Armorsmiths... You're ready for your scout blaster

6k for a scout blaster of eh quality.

Undaunted on the armor though you look on your overhead map and find tons of vendors out there. You take your loaner speeder bike head out there and find.... composite... compostie... OH LOOK! COMPOSITE... all for 225k plus.

Now i'm a bit daunted so I head off to the nearest Weaponsmith vendor... maybe if I have a good weapon I can kill them faster than they can kill me!

If find it... the excalibur of scout blasters! A cherubic choir sings it's praises as I look at the stats.

I check the price 10k...

I whimper and cry...

How completely and totally frustrating! I can't effectively move forward in my profession without armor or a good weapon and dieing repeatedly is really not my idea of a good time..

I won't even get into being an artisan type character *chuckles*

Those of us that did start early in the game did have an advantage the medium qualitry non looted weapons and armor were at least reasonable on the bazaar at around 1500 credits.

Yes I'm for working for it trust me, but my point is some us are jaded by the prices becasue we've been at it just that long.

Make a new PC on another server for grins and try to run it through it's paces. I've got 7 I think all at the same spot.

Crying in front of the bazaar in my newbie clothes

Message Edited by Aeron-Blackthorn on 01-21-2005 06:19 AM

Aeron- Blackthorn / Jedi Desperado "Hi Ho Banta Away!"
Adriana- Darksun / Master Carbineer / Bounty Hunter

THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR DWARVEN RIVER DANCING!!!

mistereous1

Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:47 am

#24

What do you need comp for to kill a nuna??? Everything I see is directly proportional.

you can find that scout blaster for 10k which means you have to do 10 delivery/kill missions to get it which allows you to finish that next mission a little faster and you're a little higher level, so you can kill those nuna's in faster time or you can go after spiders which pay a little more. So now I've done ten or so spider missions and I'm ready for that next pistol, I've got 15k in my pocket. I still don't have pistol novice yet, so what does it matter that a DE-10 costs 2 million, I can't use it anyway. I can however afford that DL-44 now. So I'm blasting away with that getting more xp and now I'm doing 2k missions. long time to level now had to do 20 missions oh well at least I've got 40k now where's that next blaster.

Saying that we need to lower the price of comp to help a newb kill a nuna...do you really believe that???

Please Make all Deliveries to vendor Corellia 314 -3356

BWVictorious

Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:49 am

#25

Aeron Blackthorn is absolutely right.

I started in november 2004. At the moment I have 2.5 mil. Why?

Well, instead of crying at the bazzar I decided to take medic and hope tips would allow me to get some decent stuff. (no flamming towards Blackthorn here)

There I got attacked by a wounder wookie who (after teaching me the lingo, very stupid thing languages in SWG if everyone can learn them all) took me hunting with him. Here I not only picked up some cash but also loads of xp.

Then two other players gave me 200k each, one for the help I gave him with JTL and the other to entice me to join his guild. Again the wookie came back and directed me on what to buy and advised me on what to craft for money.

Suddently I started being able to craft my own harvesters which allowed me to do powerups. More hunting missions came up. credits started rolling. Recently I sold a single crate of swoops (40 swoops each at 94%). So now im ok in the economy.

No I cant afford the good stuff, No I cant even afford to buy resources. Most of what I have I had to craft it myself (worked as a WS, Arch, CH, Medic etc etc etc). Then again, I got enough for me so I get along.

Thing is its still hard to get those starting things Like good heavy harvesters, factories and etc. In fact its worst because I still have difficulty finding them even being able to afford high prices.

Thanks to my guild and that wookie and my other friends, I was able to get up the ladder and thats the only way up in this economy.

Maybe its ok, maybe its not, in truth the lone newbie is Bantha poodoo!

So keep those bazzar's stocked with goods. Sell them used armors cheap, place those half condition weapons on it. Sell things you dont need at a ridiculous bargain. Ever since I got enough money to go by, Ive been dumping everything I can into Bestine Bazzar in Tempest.

Thats my way of fighting the inflation, flood the market.

There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!

-- (Terry Pratchett, The Truth)

Aeron-Blackthorn

Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:28 am

#26

*chuckles* Well first off the nuna thing was a joke. I promise I do have a sense of humor.

You sort of missed the one point (as a note I have a Master armorsmith, a Master weaponsmith and Master Droid Engineer so I'm not ragging on professions I don't already do myself

).

Basically beforeI could at least do a few less mission to upgrade my weapons and armor a bit and show some progress. It didn't have to be phenomenal progress it but it was nice to log out with say a new chest place or a new weapon to try out.

But about composite is that is the only choice out there aside from ubese which most new player cannot afford either. Currently on Starsider I sell Ubese for 125k a set well out of hte range of newbie armor. I'm in the process of getting some bone together to put cheap armor up on the bazaar.

Trust me too I understand that resource prices are a factor as well.

So now that we understand that I don't want nor do I need composite to run nuna missions, I at least would like to have armor of some sort. But right now I'm caught in a catch 22 I can't run missions above say 700 cr per and even if I could get cash together no one sells newbie armor anymore that I am aware (*Insert: That I know of doesn't mean you don't sell it and I simply haven't been to your vendor) of.

All I am saying with the way both SELECTION (Key word here) and prices go it can be a bit daunting and a bit depressing for a new player in combat profession let alone in a craftin profession.

Aeron- Blackthorn / Jedi Desperado "Hi Ho Banta Away!"
Adriana- Darksun / Master Carbineer / Bounty Hunter

THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR DWARVEN RIVER DANCING!!!

Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Why did everyone complain about the money system/infalted economy?