Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Ingame calculator required.
Phaelyn wrote:
VP wrote:
Geez!! If I thought it was going to turn into a philosophical debate I would never have suggested it, listen to yourselves, it is not reasonable, will not benifit all players.. etc etc.
Well it will benifit me so I asked, I also use the notepad, A LOT!!Ok, but look at the name at the top of the Forums - "Business and Economy" - We use this area to discuss the economy and economic impacts of various things in the game. And as far as the economy goes - A calculator and the Notepad have no bearing on it.
If you want to just make a suggestion on things to make the client better, and get no "debate", send it directly to the Devs. If you want discussion on what we ALL think, post it openly on the forums.
Just as an aside, "reasonable" and "benefits all players" are 2 things people should consider before they throw up an "I have a great idea!" thread on any forum. Ideas that will favor all or most of the players tend to be embraced. Ideas that favor only one profession or a small segment of players tends to be flamed.
And people who disagree with the original poster always seem to get a One Star - wonder why that is?
1. The name on the forums, yeah Business. This would help my business that's why I posted it.
2. The star system is a rating on a post, if I disagree with a post enough I will 1 star it, remember it's a rating system, we don't all give 5 stars.
3. Well, we don't all have spreadsheets or whatever either so I would still like a calculator.
4. It's a game.
Pawlin wrote:
It is your opinion that notepad serves no purpose. I disagree. I use it frequently and its fairly handy for a number of things.
Exactly my point - You see it as serving a purpose because you A) Know of the function and B) USE the function. If it were to vanish tomorrow, you'd see posts asking for it back - And quite a few MORE posts saying "Gee, I didn't know there WAS a function like that"
Just because few people know a feature exists does not mean it should not be there or is not useful.
I never said it should not be there. I said, in my opinion, it wasn't needed, and is not essential to the play of the game.
It is certainly legitimate and reasonable to ask for features and enhancements that benefit a minority of players. There isn't any rule that says if it doesn't benefit everyone then its no good.
Again, I never stated anything like this. I *did* state that it serves little purpose, and benefits a minority, yes. I also implied, and sorry if this confuses people, that asking for other more REASONABLE things should take precedence. Things like fixing broken content.
The first 5 posts to this thread are from people who agree with the idea and would like it.
And your point here is what?
VP wrote:
1. The name on the forums, yeah Business. This would help my business that's why I posted it.
Never denied it wouldn't help your business. On the flip side, there not being one does NOT hurt your business.
2. The star system is a rating on a post, if I disagree with a post enough I will 1 star it, remember it's a rating system, we don't all give 5 stars.
Personal choice, and I /salute you for it. My personal choice is only to give Stars to people who deserve a pat on the back - Me giving NO stars means it's not worth my time.
3. Well, we don't all have spreadsheets or whatever either so I would still like a calculator.
But if you're on any sort of windows based system, you DO have a calculator built in. That's neither here nor there in the discussion however.
4. It's a game.
Exactly. it's a game. No other gamesI play have a calculator, and I don't feel a lack for not having it in them. Same as I don't feel a lack for not having one here.
AudioOrgana wrote:
LOL I can't imagine anyone being opposed to the idea. Don't they think the client already has internal mathmatic abilities, and all this would be is a simple UI to interact with it?
It's just like the notepad - no extra strain on the server, it saves it locally.
Funny thing is, not once in my postshave I saidI was opposed to the idea. Not essential I did say. Opposed I did not.
Having it in-game, like the notepad, helps with many things :
1) Immersion - making the game more self-contained is a good thing
OK, now if you are advocating it for Immersion purposes - Let's create an item in game that serves the purpose, and creates content. Maybe a droid "Accountant", giving DEs a new item to make, increasing their immersion, and giving players a new tool.
2) Practicality - Having the figures in-game saves that "alt-tab" back and forth trying to get multiple figures from different places and having to remember them in-between (unless you write them on paper, which nullifies the usefulness of the notepad) From a practicality standpoint, I concede to you it's worth, as I also concede your next point.
3) Alt-tab doesn't always happen instantly - I've got a pretty nice system and it still plays havoc with my PC sometimes. And if you run multiple clients, forget about it.
I simply see no disadvantages. I see ways around it, but I don't see any disadvantage to having one in the client. People said the same thing about /notepad - "Just send yourself an e-mail" is what they used to say. Well, that was clumsy and not good for the e-mail system. Same with calculator - it's clumsy and puts wear and tear on our PCs having to do the alt-tab business when it could just be very elegantly, and simply, put into the client-side code. Even if it wasn't in a UI, but a / command ("/sum (8938+7839)/2") it would be very useful.
The big difference is that Notepad always has existed. Creating a calculator, no matter how few lines it may take, would be an addition to the code. Additions to code always have a chance of creating bugs, or taking down the stability of teh client. Hence my point about making "reasonable" changes that benefit the many, not the few. If you're going to *potentially* destabilize the client, make it for something that benefits all.
It's something people have requested for ages, but it's just never been brought up by a large number of people at once. Ignore the one-star children (why would anyone one-star an idea like this, LMAO - one word - TROLL) and keep awareness up - this would be a change that many, many crafters (and even some combat players) would relish.
Oh, I actually LIKE getting 1 stars - Shows that people are at least reading the threads.
AO
Just for the record I want a calculator AND an ingame character builder thingy so I can work out how many skillpoints I'll need for my templates & stuff
RudyB wrote:
LOL what an excellent thread, I never imagined reading the first post that this could cause so much debate!
Just for the record I want a calculator AND an ingame character builder thingy so I can work out how many skillpoints I'll need for my templates & stuff
Whenever AudioOrgana weighs in, there is always a debate. 
I like the idea of a calculator, but it is has got to be useful and convenient. If it is just another window I have to switch to while plugging harvesters, stocking vendors, doing factory runs etc, then I would probably find it easier to just keep using my old RL calculator.
I think it would be easiest if we could access it through the chat bar. You just type into the chat bar and it spits the answers back. IE: if you type "=1+1" the chat bar replies "2".
That way it might even be possible to make macros to calculate formulas like harvester maintenance, sales tax etc.
Phaelyn wrote:
...
A legitimate point, and I'll give you a legitimate answer - For no good reason whatsoever. It serves no real purpose to the game. It doesn't add or detract from the playability one iota. I for one wouldn't miss it - As I never USE it. Oh, many will say it's there for making it easier to make Macros, easier to do this or that. Then again - When asking my guildmates how many use it - Out of 75 people, 2 knew of it's existence. Asking them how many use the in game function to set up copy, cut and paste - All but 2 had no idea you COULD do that.
My point is, when you're asking to add something to the game that benefits few of the players, it's not a reasonable request. Asking to add content for ALL to use = reasonable. Asking for a calculator only a few Artisan will use and/or know about = Not reasonable.
Phaelyn wrote:
SeraphDauthi wrote:
I use the windows calculator on my desktop plus an excel spreadsheet for any crafting runs (im an armorsmith). What would be really cool is if the factory did the calculations for you after you load the schematic. You would type in how many units you want to make (under the schem limit of 1000 of course) and the factory would tell you how much you need of each resource to complete the run. Also, the factory would tell you if you have satisfied the resource requirements for the number you specified..sorta like a checklist that is colorcoded. I don't know how many times i have loaded a factory with ingrediants, leave the area and planet and then get an ingame message that i ran out of X resource because i didnt put enough or at all.
little things like this can make factory runs less of a time sink. =)
Yes, it's a cool idea. However, not to sound like a jerk - Isn't that math rather simple anyway? 25 units of X resource needed * 1000 (schem amount) = 25000 units total. I know when I used to do factory runs, I already have it figured out and ready to go within minutes - And the only factory messages I got was because it was finished.
If you are a crafter that can afford to make large scale runs like that, it is rather simple math. Unfortunately, if you are scrapping this and that of different resources and have to resort to doing small to mid scale factory runs, the math is not as simple. For example, sometimes I wll do27 pairs ofarmor bootswhich take 15 ofXYZ resourceand 8 ABC resources each. I will resort to that many only because I only have enough wooly hides to make that many. While the calculation is simple by itself, it does take a few seconds to do the math in your head. Also if you do it over and over again and as with most things, errors are bound to be made. A factory to calculate such things would help in preventing such things and make life easier.
Isan absence of sucha thing a gamebreaker? No, of course not as was the case of waiting for both a musician buff after a dancer buff. Another example is surveying while mounted which was a change made just recently.The Devs changed it where you can do both now (or soon will be) because they must have realized theunnecessary timesink and adding up the little things leads to alot of wasted time.
As for the notepad, I find it extremely useful for two things.
1. Storage of replacable messages, like my AFK -- I can keep my "standard" AFK responder stashed, in case I change it for RP or whatever purposes.
2. Writing colored text with instant preview. I use it mostly for this.
SeraphDauthi wrote:
If you are a crafter that can afford to make large scale runs like that, it is rather simple math. Unfortunately, if you are scrapping this and that of different resources and have to resort to doing small to mid scale factory runs, the math is not as simple. For example, sometimes I wll do27 pairs ofarmor bootswhich take 15 ofXYZ resourceand 8 ABC resources each. I will resort to that many only because I only have enough wooly hides to make that many. While the calculation is simple by itself, it does take a few seconds to do the math in your head. Also if you do it over and over again and as with most things, errors are bound to be made. A factory to calculate such things would help in preventing such things and make life easier.
Again, yes this is a cool idea. But not exactly what everyone else was asking for, IE an in game calculator. i'm all for adding content, and creating immersion. A Pop Up window if you type /calc isn't immersion. Doing what you suggest however is, and as such.. Much more palatable. A Droid brain made by a DE goes into the Harvester made by the Architect - and give the people a choice - Buy the "dumb" harvester for the price you already pay - But here ya go, buy the "smart" harvester for a little more, and it practically does it all for you!
Isan absence of sucha thing a gamebreaker? No, of course not as was the case of waiting for both a musician buff after a dancer buff. Another example is surveying while mounted which was a change made just recently.The Devs changed it where you can do both now (or soon will be) because they must have realized theunnecessary timesink and adding up the little things leads to alot of wasted time.
You know, saving time is great. And the surveying part of it, yeah - I like the change. I don't like being able to sample from a mount though - Call it a personal choice, but I think it removes a level of play from the profession - Look, you can do core samples from 5 feet in the air with no tools! Ah well - Roll with the punches, i guess. All the powergamers are getting their way, and the casual players gets some benefits - But lose the ability to experience a lot of things that were unique in the game.