Business And Economy Archive
Thread: SWG Solo Group Payout Petition ~ Please Read!
GraySeven
Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:22 am
#15
Grouping to get higher payout missions as a solo player was never intended. The Dev's changed this so that the monetary payout was reduced. Unfortunately, this had the side effect of removing group combat as:
- If I can solo it, what makes the Dev's believe I'm going to want to group to fight it for less money?
- Creature Handlers and Imperials have an advantage as they can form "mini groups" for higher difficulty missons. Why invite others?
- Until the CURB comes out, the only things worth grouping to fight are GDK's, Ancient Krayts, and the Nova Troopers (for Rebs) and with loot kinda weird, the incentive to take these on is reduced.
Being able to multi-call droids to form a 20 person group that you get full loot credit for was an EXPLOIT. You were doing something unintended by SOE, taking advantage of a bug/workaround for personal gain.
What this does is points to a fundemental problem with Mission Difficulties and Cons, something I hope is addressed in the CURB. Only then can we see if the changes fix the above problems.
Besides, quality composite has ALWAYS been 250k to 400k, even before solo groups became the norm. As a crafter, I have never based my sale prices on how much money others can make or is available, but on how much it costs me to make, so saying the Solo Group payout FIX needs to be reversed is just foolish.
Hollow_Stone
Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:30 am
#16
/sigh
Non of you are getting it. First of all I never said that I personally grouped witha droid multiple times to get good paying missions. I simply stated that it was nerfed. So get your information right before flaming me.
Secondly, I am not trying to bring back solo groups! Let me repeat that because I don't think people understand. I am not trying to bring back solo groups! My only concern is that if you allow people to make money a certain way, and then take it away from them without offering any type of compensation, you are doing them an injustice. It's like starting a job at $22 an hour and after a year and a half of good service demoting you down to $7 per hour. See what I mean?
The economy may drop yes. But it will take a long time to get there and in the mean time people are either forced to methods of play that they don't enjoy to make money so they can do the things they enjoy, or they are forced into finding a different MMORPG that they will enjoy playing. And with all the competition out there I think SOE should really be focussing on keeping their customers. My opinion and apparently a lot of other people's opinion as well. The petition has only been up for 6 hours and in that time it has aquired 30 signatures.
Regards,
Rece111
Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:38 am
#17
I posted this in the Bloodfin forum but I think this is the proper place for this discussion. I think by changing the mission system to better suit how players play the game fixes the money issue as well as many others...
"I will agree with those that say there are other ways to make money in the game. Not everyone is a crafter or can play for 8 hours a day. Mission payouts is how alot of people make their money. The developers of this game have made it clear that they do not like solo groups. I, personally, would love for solo groups to go away because I feel like I waste enough time getting buffed up to go hunt much less spamming for a solo group at the MO for 15 minutes. Here's a simple solution: Fix the mission terminals!! For any elite combat profession, a level 99 mission is easily solo'd while buffed with or without armor. So why not let players have access to these missions without the need for a solo group? This game is centered around "grinding" and, in general, people grind alone. There are plenty of things in this game to group up and do. I have never once, however, put together a group of 8 or more players so we could go out and kill 5 jantas and their little statue. Yet that's whats required to even pull that mission off the terminals. They want to eliminate solo groups? Fine with me. Want to reduce mission payouts for some missions? Ok. Just let players have access to missions they can easily handle alone. Noone hunts in their skivies with thier survival knife and no buffs. The mission terminal system should be able to recognize this and adjust accordingly."
"I will agree with those that say there are other ways to make money in the game. Not everyone is a crafter or can play for 8 hours a day. Mission payouts is how alot of people make their money. The developers of this game have made it clear that they do not like solo groups. I, personally, would love for solo groups to go away because I feel like I waste enough time getting buffed up to go hunt much less spamming for a solo group at the MO for 15 minutes. Here's a simple solution: Fix the mission terminals!! For any elite combat profession, a level 99 mission is easily solo'd while buffed with or without armor. So why not let players have access to these missions without the need for a solo group? This game is centered around "grinding" and, in general, people grind alone. There are plenty of things in this game to group up and do. I have never once, however, put together a group of 8 or more players so we could go out and kill 5 jantas and their little statue. Yet that's whats required to even pull that mission off the terminals. They want to eliminate solo groups? Fine with me. Want to reduce mission payouts for some missions? Ok. Just let players have access to missions they can easily handle alone. Noone hunts in their skivies with thier survival knife and no buffs. The mission terminal system should be able to recognize this and adjust accordingly."
BlooDFoX
Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:15 am
#18
Ok what your ALL missing is the poster is talking about doing a hard mission and getting crap as payment. Im a master swordsman/Master doc and I can solo enraged rancor lairs in no time but as it stands i get 3k credits for it if im grouped and I dont have a choice to NOT be grouped because I cant get a mission like that without a group. The devs either need to make it so We can get ANY mission we want solo or return it to how it used to be because its rediculous that if I want to take on rancs and get a reward for killing them that I could get for doing missions on tatooine.
Now ive been gone for a few months so I dont know what this whole adding your pet repeatedly bug is about but it kinda sounds self explanitory. The fact is I used to solo group (through dantooine or dath) to get rancor missions so I could afford my gear. A good set of equipment (buff's/food/drink/scythe/armor) is REALLY expensive in the long run if you think about it and if the devs wont let us solo group at least let us take the chance OURSELVES and pick ANY mission we want. Solo groups wouldnt be a problem if we could be by ourselves and find a mission rancors etc. Groups wont feel much of an effect because 90% of groups are friends doing things together or people doing creatures that are alot easier grouped (IE krayts etc).
Now ive been gone for a few months so I dont know what this whole adding your pet repeatedly bug is about but it kinda sounds self explanitory. The fact is I used to solo group (through dantooine or dath) to get rancor missions so I could afford my gear. A good set of equipment (buff's/food/drink/scythe/armor) is REALLY expensive in the long run if you think about it and if the devs wont let us solo group at least let us take the chance OURSELVES and pick ANY mission we want. Solo groups wouldnt be a problem if we could be by ourselves and find a mission rancors etc. Groups wont feel much of an effect because 90% of groups are friends doing things together or people doing creatures that are alot easier grouped (IE krayts etc).
Message Edited by BlooDFoX on 03-03-2005 09:16 AM
bluejanus
Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:29 am
#19
BlooDFoX wrote:
Ok what your ALL missing is the poster is talking about doing a hard mission and getting crap as payment. Im a master swordsman/Master doc and I can solo enraged rancor lairs in no time but as it stands i get 3k credits for it if im grouped and I dont have a choice to NOT be grouped because I cant get a mission like that without a group. The devs either need to make it so We can get ANY mission we want solo or return it to how it used to be because its rediculous that if I want to take on rancs and get a reward for killing them that I could get for doing missions on tatooine.
Now ive been gone for a few months so I dont know what this whole adding your pet repeatedly bug is about but it kinda sounds self explanitory. The fact is I used to solo group (through dantooine or dath) to get rancor missions so I could afford my gear. A good set of equipment (buff's/food/drink/scythe/armor) is REALLY expensive in the long run if you think about it and if the devs wont let us solo group at least let us take the chance OURSELVES and pick ANY mission we want. Solo groups wouldnt be a problem if we could be by ourselves and find a mission rancors etc. Groups wont feel much of an effect because 90% of groups are friends doing things together or people doing creatures that are alot easier grouped (IE krayts etc).Message Edited by BlooDFoX on 03-03-2005 09:16 AM
But what you consider crap is quite relative to payouts in the past, not to what might be considered fair. If you're used to getting 30k a mission. 10k is bound to seem like it's punishing you.
Eaca
Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:12 am
#20
Hollow_Stone wrote:
/sigh
Non of you are getting it. First of all I never said that I personally grouped witha droid multiple times to get good paying missions. I simply stated that it was nerfed. So get your information right before flaming me.
Secondly, I am not trying to bring back solo groups! Let me repeat that because I don't think people understand. I am not trying to bring back solo groups! My only concern is that if you allow people to make money a certain way, and then take it away from them without offering any type of compensation, you are doing them an injustice. It's like starting a job at $22 an hour and after a year and a half of good service demoting you down to $7 per hour. See what I mean?
The economy may drop yes. But it will take a long time to get there and in the mean time people are either forced to methods of play that they don't enjoy to make money so they can do the things they enjoy, or they are forced into finding a different MMORPG that they will enjoy playing. And with all the competition out there I think SOE should really be focussing on keeping their customers. My opinion and apparently a lot of other people's opinion as well. The petition has only been up for 6 hours and in that time it has aquired 30 signatures.
Regards,
So instead of bringing back solo groups, you want the devs to impiment a system that just straight up gives you higher paying missions, without any effort at all? So instead of having to go thru the hassle of old to find a good solo group, one that's kept full, you don't want the hassle of having to pull outgroup and store your pet multiple times,now you just want to get buffed and go out and start hammering away at 30k missions, which you are now pulling on your own solo. You want to be MORE lazy now than before.
See, I used to do solo groups for cash, just like this whiney baby here. And to be honest, since my alt is a CH and I'm an imperial with 3 AT-ST's I still can do solo missions to my hearts content. But for the last about4 months I haven't done one buff session. In the last 4 months I've made more money not doing solo missions than I did in the previous 8 months doing them. Solo missions are by far not the only way, or even the best way to make bank. The crafters and other people on theserver are still super rich, and just because they have 100-200mil in the bank doesn't mean that they sit on it. Heck somebody who has 100-200mil in the bank probably spends about 5-6mil a day, maybe more. Rich people aren't money pits, they're money pumps, if you want some, find out what you need to do to get them to pump some your way.
Oh, I like how you put your petition on a private board, so you can delete any opinions that differ from yours, that's like 1000x worse than SOE there bud. Keep spamming those /agree's tho, I'm sure the devs care
Jagged-F3l
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:02 pm
#22
Let's try to remember this is a game. Games have rules. You play a game within the constraints established by these rules. If you weren't following the rules due to a known exploit, don't complain when the game limits you according to the known rules.
Hollow_Stone
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:21 pm
#23
Eaca wrote: Oh, I like how you put your petition on a private board, so you can delete any opinions that differ from yours, that's like 1000x worse than SOE there bud. Keep spamming those /agree's tho, I'm sure the devs care
There are SWG usernames and servers on that petition. Feel free to check with any of them and ask if they signed the petition agreeing with it. I am not altering peoples signatures. There are signatures on there of people who do not agree with me and I didn't alter theirs. Calling me a cheater is ridiculous. Here do this /tell swg.server.username send a tell to any of those names you want and ask them. I have not altered anyones post on that petition. I have deleted 2 signatures. One at the request of the signer and one that just signed to flame me, just like you are doing. Your hypocracy astounds me. You did solo grouping too for 8 months solid? I did one buff session of solo grouping when I started running out of money. I didn't solo group for days on end to rake in a huge bank account. So take a good look at yourself before flaming me.
And of course I put the petition on a private site. It's my site. Where else am I gonna put it? Anywhere I put it I would have access to the Administrating duties. So what? If I wanted to cheat I wouldn't have bothered posting it all over these forums. I would've just added the names at my leisure. The signatures are authentic and there are many people upset that they cannot get higher difficulty missions and higher payouts. And the numbers continue to grow with every passing minute.
All I am trying to say, is if you get a job earning $22 per hour and after 18+ months of loyal service you get demoted to $7 per hour how would you feel? That is essentially what the Devs did to the combat professions. I don;t think people should be forced into taking up crafting or something else they do not enjoy just to survive financially in the game. There have been quite a few people who have signed the petition and have stated they feel like SWG is a second job to them now and what's worse is they are paying to do it. What Rece said is right on target. They players should be able to take higher difficulty missions if they want to. Why should a TKM or Master Swordsman only be able to get the same payout missions that a Master Brawler can get? That is not right in my opinion and apparently in a lot of other peoples opinion since in less than 12 hours the petition has accumulated around 50 signatures.
People keep saying how there are other ways to make money in the game. What you all don't understand is the combat profession players don;t want to do the other things to make money. They enjoy combat and making money from it. And they should be entitled to make decent money from missions just like crafters can charge as much as they want for their crafts. There needs to be a balance with the mission payouts. You can think what you want. The Petition numbers will speak for themselves.
Regards,
Phaelyn
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:35 pm
#24
Hollow_Stone wrote:
People keep saying how there are other ways to make money in the game. What you all don't understand is the combat profession players don;t want to do the other things to make money. They enjoy combat and making money from it. And they should be entitled to make decent money from missions just like crafters can charge as much as they want for their crafts. There needs to be a balance with the mission payouts. You can think what you want. The Petition numbers will speak for themselves.
Regards,
And those same numbers will only be speaking TO themselves. Devs and Correspondents have told us in the past that petitions will not sway their opinions, that only discussions on the various forums will bring about any possible NEEDED change. You don't even place that petition on the SOE forums, a place where MAYBE a Correspondent would have seen it - You take it off site, to ensure it will never be seen.
It's really not all that hard to get Players to rally around your battle cry. Tell them "Follow me, and make more money" will get them to sign anything you put up. But you have to stand back, and think about what you're saying here.. Your analogy of making $22 and being taken down to $7 only makes sense in one context - You lost your $22 job, and had to go find any job that pays - In this case, $7. Why? Because it ISa new system, with new pay. But are you REALLY that poor?
Only if you keep insisting on attacking high level mobs. Think about it - The higher the difficulty level, the more wear and tear your armor and weapon take, and the more Battle foods you use. You also spend credits on buffs. Have you stopped to consider that if you skipped the Buffs, wore LESS than comp armor, and used only an average weapon, you can be doing certain low level missions that pay 4 to 5k? They exist - And are so EASY that you don't need armor OR buffs.
Doing the easier, lower level missions is where your $22 an hour is now. Doing the high end missions is for XP now, and not for pay. A simple change in your methods and thinking is all it takes.
Message Edited by Phaelyn on 03-03-2005 02:36 PM
Railean
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:52 pm
#25
So far this last week and half (Monday 2/21 --> 3/2) I made 4 million on just plopping down 4 harvesters on a good organics spawn and 4 harvesters on good chemical spawn. Both were advertised on my galaxy trade forum from crafters look for players to get this resource for them. I only have one character and 10 lots so I used what I have. I bought cheap power off the bazaar to power my harvesters and even got WP's from the crafters who just needed people to add their harvesters to the resource spawn. One crafter paid 5 cpu for the chemical and the other crafter paid 6 cpu for the organic. Total time in terms of effort. (30 mins to setup harvesters on two different planets using given WPs) + (15 minutes every 2 days to empty hoppers) + (15 minutes every 2 days to bring the resources to the crafter vendors) = 30 + 45 + 45 = 120 total minutes over 11 days. That is not much effort.
This is just one example of ways that anybody can make money in this game. You just need to take it upon yourself to look around. Read the threads in the economy section or the game guide section on how to make money. Hell, even post the question on how to make money to join the other 3 that are on the first 2 pages of those sections. Watch your galaxy trade board. Where ever you buy weapons/armor/buffs/food send an email to the crafter and ask them if they need any resources and what they are charging. Maybe you can earn some extra money or get discounts on items.
Hope this helps.
This is just one example of ways that anybody can make money in this game. You just need to take it upon yourself to look around. Read the threads in the economy section or the game guide section on how to make money. Hell, even post the question on how to make money to join the other 3 that are on the first 2 pages of those sections. Watch your galaxy trade board. Where ever you buy weapons/armor/buffs/food send an email to the crafter and ask them if they need any resources and what they are charging. Maybe you can earn some extra money or get discounts on items.
Hope this helps.