Business And Economy Archive

This is a post I wanted to make here for a long time. It is a reworking of a post I made on the dancer forum sometime after Publish 10, and the revamp of the path to Jedi. However, I have to admit that I am very frightened at the reception it will receive here. I am sure many of you have strong feelings that unattendence is a non-issue, and are quite annoyed at the prospect of arguing it here. My intent is not to champion any particular ideology, or ask for "nerfs," or ask you to even agree with me. My purpose here is to look at the future of unattended entertainment, and how it may affect the galaxy as a whole. Let us start with a simple thought experiment:

If your very enjoyment of this game hinged on something that you cannot control, cannot predict, cannot influence, is resistant to any means of persuasion or coercion, and is predisposed to not accommodate your needs, then what recourse would you have other than to acquire the thing in question, or quit the game entirely?

What if this thing costs you double the software, double the fees, and diverts your attention from those things you’d rather be doing, simply to get the thing into a state where it was viable?

No doubt unattended buffbots upset many in this player base. But why? No doubt equally many players like buffbots, but why? And no doubt everyone feels that we are not treated adequately enough, and this extends not only to we who play the professions, but also to those who need cantina services, as well as the very buffbot owners themselves in many cases.

But one thing EVERYONE can agree upon during the holocraze is how very vulnerable we all really are, how disposable we all really are, and how integral we all really are.

The holocraze was sheer madness, and it turned the servers into a madhouse. Players crafted things only to destroy. Players applied medicine to those who willingly tumbled on the floor, rather than heal the injured. And as we know, players created macros to dance for audiences that were not there.

Indeed, the unattendee was a child of the holocraze. The Buffbot was a child of unattendedness that has outlived the holocraze. We are living in the golden age of the unattended buffer, but I do fear that at some point, this golden age will be over. We already are seeing the signs, as it is rather clear to me in my travels that there are simply more buffbots than are really needed today.

At certain places on Bria, such as the Dantooine Mining Outpost, Theed, or Coronet, there are two and three dancer-musician buffbots, with buffing cycle macros running constantly, let alone the possibility of many, many more buffbots that are privately owned and operated in homes, city cantinas, and guild halls all across Bria. With so many buffbots today, it seems to me at least that we may not see many more buffing alts being created. But more importantly than all of that, I fear that in the near future, the most frightening aspect about buffbots will then become revealed to us.

They do not play, and as a result, they cannot be expected to play for your interest. And it is going to have many far-reaching implications for the player base. And quite frankly, if you think it isn't going to affect you as customers, you'd better start thinking of playing in a world of bots. Because its fast coming to this point, and itmay in factbe completely different than what you have now.

During the holocraze, we had plenty of motivated characters that were more than willing to dish out their game mechanics to as many people as possible. The prime reason unattendedness in entertainment was pursued by many players is that it was simply a temporary activity that must be done so that it will be over.

But with those who place dedicated, unattended buffers, it will never be over. And the motivations to create such a character have really nothing to do with deriving enjoyment with what it does. It has everything to do with making it useful for something other than the enjoyment of playing it, be it to provide a city or PA with game mechanics, or some other reasons. And make no mistake, buffbot owners by-in-large think the only thing entertainment does is tend to battle fatigue, heal the mind, and enhance the mind. And indeed, these things are valuable. It is why they place them in the first place. But if this is the extent to which they go, they will invariably discover what many of us who have played live have discovered all along.

The mechanics given by entertainment do not in and of themselves entail wealth, respect, and admiration. In fact, buffbot owners, I believe in time, will discover quite the opposite is true. Any attempt to justify why one should get wealth, admiration, and respect for merely skill animating will make one hated.

Now we haven't seen much evidence from the driving forces behind this game: the ultra rich and effective multi-account users, the first person shooter type player, or the big, self sustaining and insulated guilds that this is a problem with buffbots. But then again, buffbots are at this point still very common and available. However, this begs the question of how many buffbots do we really need when a single pair can buff eighteen players every two minutes for twenty-four hours (that is 12,960 buff sets in a day)?

But to be fair, buffbots aren’t the only ones that give out buffs. Live players do too. Both can dish out game mechanics. In fact, buffbots are very good at dishing them out. They dish them out at hours live players can't, in conditions live players can't, and in a sustainable way that live players can't. Indeed, when looking at it from our perspective, it seems like a daunting proposition to think that we can even compete with them for clients. Because if mechanics are all the patrons want, a dedicated unattended entertainer gives them everything they need.

But just because these things are needed does not mean that this makes players love to go to the cantina to get them. A lot love it about as much as they love to stand in front of the ticket droid. And quite frankly, it is my belief that they hate going to buffbots just as much as they hate going to us, because they hate the cantina in general. The only way they will ever possibly come to enjoy it is if they find something novel, unexpected, surprising, or enjoyable. It can be a hard time trying to convince many of our patrons, but at least we live players have the opportunity to try.

Buffbots don't even try to give you anything between /startwatch and /stopwatch. They simply counteract this with the ability to leap beyond the constraints of what is playable. And I'm not saying this because it is right or wrong what a buffbot owner does, but only how it differs from what we who are self-motivated do. And though there are many cantina haters that may be relieved when they finally are able to get away from the cantina, I cannot imagine that they wouldn’t be equally relieved when they get away from a buffbot's cantina. And though they may not tip or respect live players because we do meaningless things in their eyes, I have to imagine they are equally stingy and resentful toward a buffbot. Because it is not the entertainer they hate as much as the fact that they have to sit there in the first place. And its not so much that players intrinsically enjoy going to the cantina as much as players want to get it out of the way in order to do other things. And our job as entertainers was to make this cumbersome procedure somewhat less cumbersome through the refinement of our artistic and social techniques. Because its not in my power as an entertainer to prevent you from going to the cantina. It IS in my power to give you something that makes this time go by easier in the time between /startwatch and /stopwatch.

Why do the first person shooter crowd, cities, and guilds like buffbots? Because buffbots are available to give out game mechanics far in excess of what any single player can give them. And as of this point, they will give out game mechanics equally, reliably, and efficiently regardless of whether you tip them or not. That's why they like buffbots. But make no mistake; they still think entertainment is simply a heap of mechanics with futility attached.

But here is the truth of the matter that I think we may have lost as players. Buffbots were never created to pull one over on entertainers. Buffbots were created to pull one over on one's enemies.

From the earliest times of this phenomenon, individual advantage seekers used second accounts to provide ready access to mind buffs without the search and wait that everyone else had to do. The first buffbot I saw was the possession of Monika T’Sarn, the first Jedi, and I assume that Monika created the buffbot because she had a spare account, she would not have to go to the cantina where she would be vulnerable, nor need an entertainer who may in fact sell away her position. Things such as that happen when one is interacting with an economic actor who is rational and self-interested. That is why when the opportunity to create a mindless actor who cannot be interested in anything other than what it is told is a possibility; it becomes a much better alternative.

Which is why I imagine players tend to get all up in arms when we live entertainers step up on the forums and talk about our "self importance." They complain about our "hang ups," like not buffing them because we are too busy. Not buffing them because they didn't tip us. Not buffing them because they are of a particular faction or guild. Not buffing them because they were rude to us, and so on. Buffbots aren't people that have such hang ups. That's why players even go so far as to praise them and their owners for their beneficence.

But my fear, and the fear perhaps of many players who depend on unattended accessory characters is…for how much longer?

Live performers have been having a rather hard time. There are few, very few of us left. And the ones that remain, like me, tend to find entertaining for the general player base a tedious, stressful, and ultimately wasteful experience. There are moments when the play becomes fun, but many of us are discovering that these moments are fewer and farther between. It seems that players, by in large, would rather be content with buffbots bearing the brunt of healing battle fatigue, healing mind wounds, and mind enhancements. And I must say, today it is very much a workable option.

That is, until buffbot owners develop a sense of "self importance."

They are. If you look at your server boards, you may in fact discover a growing number of problems with patrons of buffbots and buffbot owners. And I believe they will only continue to feel this way. Because buffbot owners will start to see how many people use their accessory account day in and day out, and say to themselves, "I give them these things they need 24/7, it costs me $15.00 a month to do it, and they'd better start doing things conducive to my benefit, or they can get their own buffbot."

Buffbot owners are starting to charge. Either through a subscription service, a cantina entry fee, or a /deny list they macro upon booting if the E-Mails showing tips aren't there. The problem, however, is that even with a high degree of foresight; no system is ironclad guaranteed to work. Here’s one such example:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Sunrunner&message.id=286924&page=1

I maintain though that the problem with shifting the responsibility to entertain from an actual player to an owner of an unattended character is a problem not of economics, but of power and lack of recourse. Just because buffbots have no hang-ups doesn’t mean their owners do not have any either. The hang-ups that we entertainers are guilty of will be replaced by the hang-ups of the buffbot owner, with a twist. The hang-ups of buffbot owners have the potential to be much more draconian, unpredictable, nasty, and uncompromising than any one of us are willing to be.

And at this point, I have to ask you players a very serious question: Do you really, really want to put something as essential as BF healing in the exclusive hands of another character's alt?

It is not in our interest as live players to fling around /deny willy-nilly. That's why a lot of us do not make a habit out of it if at all possible. It is not in our interest to push customers away. We want to encourage customers, not discourage them. Our finances and reputation depend upon doing so.

Unlike the crafter who can name his price, or the combatant who can earn his keep in isolation from others, we as live players have always depended on the generosity of others, and it means we have to be generous in turn. Because players are usually in a bad mood when they come to us, having just died and cloned, and many of them would rather not go there at all if they had a choice. Its why I tell new players to this thing that, "you attract more Kreetles with Carbosyrup than Sarlacc bile." Because we know that if we want to make a career in entertaining, we must make it so people like to be around us. Its the one thing we do that the buffbots can't, and so we try to take advantage of it by making players have fun while we give them buffs or healing.

But you have to remember that buffbots operate by a much different set of assumptions than live players. Buffbot owners could care less about growing an entertainment career. They simply don't know how one can, or by what means. And its not that they are not aware of their shortcomings, but that they try to work with what they can. Carbosyrup can only come forth if a live player makes the attempt to be entertaining to an audience. Buffbots are boring, they know it, and so the only tool they have to compete with us is the availability of their game mechanics...and Sarlacc bile to withhold it.

I would not put it past a buffbot owner to start making out /deny lists of those of a different faction. I would not put it past a buffbot owner to /ban normally good tipping players from a cantina for something as trite as a PvP battle, or a forum post that was not of his or her liking. I wouldn't put it past several buffbots to create a buffing cartel in which a subscription fee gets you access to a master level buffbot on every world. And I wouldn't put it past buffbot owners to justify their actions to an increasingly upset player base with the same logic they have been using all along, "I could care less if you like it. We provide a service, pay $15.00 to do it, and if you don't like it, either pick up entertainment or get your own buffbot."

I think we have to understand that the buffbot owner's problem is much different than that of an entertainer player. A buffbot owner does not have to worry about getting people to use the buffbot; it is concerned with preventing people from using the buffbot.

We have to understand and make very clear, I think, that buffbots would be amongst us even if they never earn one credit. While I understand that many buffbots do make rather sizeable amounts of income, the mechanics of what they do are by their very nature without value. This will only become more apparent with time. Because while its true that a buffbot operating solely within one cantina may justify a price of 10,000 credits to use, what will the buffbot owner do if another buffbot parks itself next to the first one for 5,000 credits? Indeed, what will the buffbot owner do if a buffbot parks itself in the cantina and buffs for one credit? It really does not change the reasons for putting a buffbot in the world at all. Because there are really no limiting factors preventing a buffbot owner from doing exactly that, and still come away with one more credit than the owner would have gotten if the buffbot were not there at all.

The truth about buffbots is that they are not amongst us to gain profits for the owners. While this is an added bonus to the owners, the buffbot owner places the buffbot for reasons of influencing the game world in a way to the owners liking. That is why buffbots are placed.

And if it pleases the owner to write a /deny macro to keep a player that beat the owner in combat from using it, so be it. If it pleases the owner to /deny a board poster from using the buffbot, so be it as well. If it pleases the owner to /deny entire city populations, entire guilds, and entire factions from using it, it is really of no consequence to the owner. Because buffbots are not amongst us for the credits they receive. Buffbots are here to make the owners powerful. And this power comes from the fact that an owner can influence a particular environment to his liking through the issuance of game mechanics.

And it will be at this point that entertainment customers will truly understand the importance of supporting, encouraging, and maintaining those who really like and are good at entertaining. And I hope for their sakes there will still be some of us left. We do it for motivations that are understandable, honorable, worthwhile, and reasonable. We look for reasons to make you want to come to us. Not figure out how to keep you away from using us. We want to alleviate your battle fatigue. Not keep your battle fatigue hostage as some bargaining chip. We try to make it so you want to tip us, not make you scared not to. We do not presume that the game mechanics we give to you are ours to give, but rather, yours to receive.

Because players are all concerned with the same things more or less: fame, reputation, personality, success, and esteem. These things are important to all of us, be you an entertainer or not. And we all try to do things that will enhance our reputation, and consider carefully the repercussions of such acts that may harm it. Believe it or not, the /deny command is much more harmful to the denier than the one denied. Because it burns a bridge that can seldom, if ever, be repaired.

But I do not think buffbot owners view their role in the same way. They do not see their success or failure as a player through their experience as a buffer, but through their experience as their main character. The auxiliary character is simply a tool or an ornament to a main character, and is enjoyable only insofar as it is useful to a main character.

So to all those that find virtue in unattended buffers, I fear that you may come to resent them. Be careful how you act amongst other players. The buffbot you rely on today may /deny you tomorrow for reasons that only the owner can explain...IF you knew who the owner was. The buffbot you run today for a 10,000 credit entrance fee may soon have to compete with a buffbot only charging a 5 credit entrance fee a mere 1000m away. The base you raid today may get you /denied from half a dozen buffbots on several worlds. Our use of buffbots was never predicated on any notion of convenience, or market dynamics, or even fun. It is predicated on notions of exclusivity, manipulation, and power.

The creation and use of economic actors to do work who are non-rational and not self-interested allows us leap beyond the constraints of mere playability and limited scarcity. But understand this, friends. The buffbots owner’s economic life exists wholly outside the things the buffbot provides the general public. It merely supplements his income, and does not wholly represent it. The only thing a buffbot owner needs to be concerned about is making sure the owner and perhaps the owner’s friends are buffed. As long as this is achieved, it may actually be in the owner’s interest to not allow others the same privilege.

And because the buffbot itself is not self-interested, there is no way to appeal to it if it /denies you. A bribe to a buffbot will not sway it.

Because a buffbot is non-rational, there is no way to reason with it if it bans you from its home. A threat to a buffbot will go unheard.

Because it is not bound by limited scarcity, there is nothing stopping it or the owner from creating a situation of total scarcity for whatever whim strikes the owner’s fancy. After all, you too have the option of creating your own buffbot.

So if you want a world of buffbots? So be it. But before you jump readily into a world you do not yet know, take some time to think about what you had before, what you have now, and how it will be different in a world where BF healing is performed by alts that operate by a different set of assumptions than players operate under.

The post is great -- in the terms of being well written and coherent.

However, I still have to disagree.

I do not hate entertainers, neither live nor AFK ones. I view them as an unfortunate necessity. The developers of this game have made it so that in order to do anything in this game (except crafting) -- to go PvP, to PvE -- you need buffs. Always. This is the fact that I greatly dislike, but I'm forced to live with it. So I get my buffs.

No entertainer, no doctor is going to sit in one spot and buff people 23 hours a day (server restart, heh). And I wouldn't expect him to -- he is, after all, a human being. A player. However, understanding that does nothing to lessen my necessity to get those buffs. And that's where buffbots come in and resolve the problem.

Buffbots are essential for as long as this game relies on the flawed concept of buffs being absolutely crucial to do anything.

And yes, I do feel relieved when I exit a cantina. Because I view my trip there as a waste of time. A timesink.

*****

This is part of a bigger problem, that is turning what were once intended to be full bore, playable professions into a sideline for someones alt.

Politician suffers the same way, in that many POliticians dont actually play the Politician professsion, its just something to grind because they want a city, aside from that they care little for the profession itself. Actual dedicated Poitician players are ignored.

of course the same is becoming true of the Entertainer, they are being simply viewed as a means to grind faster but as it stands the # of people who seem to actually want to PLAY Entertainers is much smaller than the people who want buffbots, but that mirriors r/l in that the fast food music pumped out by Britney SPears is far more popular than the ones put out by independant artists.

I now feel for the rare few who play IDs now that the skill points required for that are changing, making it so buffbots can now pick up the ID basics of the trade.

Message Edited by lexington23 on 03-16-2005 07:06 AM

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FrozenDron wrote:
The post is great -- in the terms of being well written and coherent.

However, I still have to disagree.

I do not hate entertainers, neither live nor AFK ones. I view them as an unfortunate necessity. The developers of this game have made it so that in order to do anything in this game (except crafting) -- to go PvP, to PvE -- you need buffs. Always. This is the fact that I greatly dislike, but I'm forced to live with it. So I get my buffs.

No entertainer, no doctor is going to sit in one spot and buff people 23 hours a day (server restart, heh). And I wouldn't expect him to -- he is, after all, a human being. A player. However, understanding that does nothing to lessen my necessity to get those buffs. And that's where buffbots come in and resolve the problem.

Buffbots are essential for as long as this game relies on the flawed concept of buffs being absolutely crucial to do anything.

And yes, I do feel relieved when I exit a cantina. Because I view my trip there as a waste of time. A timesink.

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Could not agree more.

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lexington23 wrote:

You are forgetting an important fact. The patrons who choose buff bots over live entertainment most often do not want your service. If they did want your service they would come to you wether a buff bot was available or not. If the buff bots are taken away then you will have many new customers who do not want to see you, grumpy and in your face.

"you attract more Kreetles with Carbosyrup than Sarlacc bile."

This is your quote from above. You might want to write that quote into a macro because you are going to need it alot more often if buff bots go away. They won't react like you think either. They won't have a hearty chuckle as they appreciate your wit, they will more likely resent your fortune cookie wisdom and become even grumpier.

Try looking at buffbots in a more positive light. They are a filter, a filter that takes away people who don't want to visit you. The buffbots are in fact providing a valuable service to improve the livedancer's and musician's game experience. There is room for live entertainment and bots on the same servier.

As for the bots, they are not run by the axis of evil. There aren't going to be any entertainer bot conspiricies or mass denials of service. Yes, sometimes you will be banned from a bot, but there will always be another to use so it is not a problem. The bot owner community lacks the desire or unity to shut out people in this way.

And you know what? When the day comes that i'm banned from my favorite bot, and i see you live entertainingin the cantina, you will be my savior and I'll thank you for getting me out of my fix. Buffbots make everyones life better, even entertainers.

Message Edited by lexington23 on 03-16-2005 07:06 AM

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I have to pretty much agree here.

I play my charc as much as is possible, when I am working or sleeping I leave her dancing for my guild. What is the problem with that exactly??

If a player wanted a live entertainer they have the opportunity to seek one out, no need to come all the way to me.

If I wanted to waste my time standing in a cantina being witty for every12 year old that thinks cybering is fun I would do that but it simply is not my idea of a good time while in-game.I love the dancer profession have did the grind at the keyboard 3 times. About once or twice a week I get the chance to dance at a base raid or defend and these are the times that I enjoy and the reason I am a dancer, but they are so few. I feel macroing afk for my guild is my reward for an almost worthless profession in terms of "things to do it game"and frankly it takes way to many skill points for what it has to offer.

All of this of course is just my opinion and while I respect your opinion I expect the same in return. If people spent as much time trying to get the Dev's to give Entertainers something to do as they do complaining about about my AFK buffbot then perhaps they would have my support. As it is now I do not want to stand in a cantina skill animating chatting with every toon that comes in the door, I started my own guild so I could have interesting conversation with people I know and like. Give me something else besides AFK macroing to do with my dancer skills and I will give you an Entertainer at the keyboard.