Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Thanks for breaking the economy even further...

Mor-Dan
Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:24 am
#1

Hotfix Note:

There are no longer critical fails on crafting (which would previously destroy componets involved)





on the surface this may seem likea good thing, but it isn't. i am a master crafter. i lose things to crit fails just like anyone else. i am no where near being even in the top 20 of the richest players on my server. i LIKE the chance to crit fail. it occasionally keeps high powered weapons from being made. it keeps things that are supposed to be rare, RARE!!! this is every bit as bad of a "fix" as the anti-decay kit is a terrible "reward". you have once again taken money OUT of the community's hands and made it stationary in the pockets of those who already have it. was it your INTENT to cause a universal recession?



Vendor Locations:
-1560 120 in Soal Valley, Corellia
-4700 5600 north of Theed, Naboo
Xanda
Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:50 am
#2

I don't know that removal of crit fails necessarily weakens the economy as you posit. Critical fails disrupted many crafters' experiences, particularly on rare resources or lootable items that augment the project.


For example, I was a Master Bioengineer for about 9 months (and loved it). The DNA samples I used to synthesize animals was often irreplaceable when synthesizing high-end MCH critters. A crit fail was so disheartening as the resources (in this case DNA) were destroyed. It actually became a learned response forme to fear pressing the proceed button.


About a year ago or so, crit fails were removed from the architect profession due to the vast quantities of resources that could be destroyed on a crit fail for say, a PA hall. This did not impact the economy in the least at that time.


I think the bigger crux of your argument is that you want to see the economy remain competitive depending on mastery. To that end I think the biggest issue is to create a system that allows the masters of a profession to have a higher chance of what the devs have called "critical successes".


I think this move is good.



--Xanda
Zeon_Zaku
Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:57 am
#3

In no way, shape or form does remoic critical failures thrash the economy. Tell me, if you had a very rare or hard to get item (like the Mandarilian parts or AV-21 powerplant) and you lost them all in a critical failure, how would you feel? It can take hours, days, weeks, sometimes even months to get all the pieces for some items, and losing all of them in a critical failure would make all your work a waste of time. You'd lose all the money you spent to buy those items (if you bought any) and all the time you spent to get them would be for naught. Is that a worthwhile effort just to have critical failures?



NDegwin Tze'Midak N
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"This flag stands for freedom. I live for what it stands for!"
(~Tze'Midak Family Biography~ * ~Degwin's Smuggling Site~ *~Blue Banshees~)


Diaso
Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:18 am
#4



Mor-Dan wrote:
Hotfix Note:

There are no longer critical fails on crafting (which would previously destroy componets involved)





on the surface this may seem likea good thing, but it isn't. i am a master crafter. i lose things to crit fails just like anyone else. i am no where near being even in the top 20 of the richest players on my server. i LIKE the chance to crit fail. it occasionally keeps high powered weapons from being made. it keeps things that are supposed to be rare, RARE!!! this is every bit as bad of a "fix" as the anti-decay kit is a terrible "reward". you have once again taken money OUT of the community's hands and made it stationary in the pockets of those who already have it. was it your INTENT to cause a universal recession?




Shut up... thats all I can say to these whiners nowadays. If you don't like it then quit for a month and come back later when your done *****ing



Name: Diaso; Server: Kettemoor
Faction: Imperial; Rank: Staff Corporal
Guild: KRG; Location: Dantooine

"Fail, Fail Again, Fail Better"

- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too
Diaso
Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:08 pm
#5

Mor-Dan... the only reason why I say Shut Up is because I only see too many people like you. I do have comments and solutions to many of the problems that are in SWG today and if you read many of my posts from the last week you could see that. The PvP Base issue, the Harvestor issue, New content for cities, apartments, roads for cities, unbalance of rebel vs imperial NPCs, the TEF system. I have commented and proposed solutions and ideas for every one of these topics.. And when I hear someone start moaning about "no more critical failures" I tend to get a little edgy. SOE will do what its gotta do weather you like it or not and a ngative comment towards SOE in your post isn't going to bring back critical failures so you can go and post all the negative things you want. IT may waste your time and the timeo f others that actually read it.. but GO FOR IT. See if we care.



Name: Diaso; Server: Kettemoor
Faction: Imperial; Rank: Staff Corporal
Guild: KRG; Location: Dantooine

"Fail, Fail Again, Fail Better"

- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too
Ledao
Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:06 pm
#6









Mor-Dan wrote:

[...]
the ADK also put those people with hundreds of millions in a position to not have to buy anything else and they can continue to increase prices on other loot that has more regulations, such as Acklay Bones, Skill Tapes, and Night Sister loot. there is an underlying reason WHY the krayt spawn increased, but i am sick of mentioning that group of peoples' name.

[...]








Don't forget the resource kits and increased creatureharvesting rates ('cuz we needed a 100% improvement there... guh)... Those had a profound impact on how crafters spend money -- I went from spending 75mil per month (on average) on resources, to spending zero. Overnight.


Now, of course, since I don't have to reinvest my income into my business, instead I spend all my money on weapons and loot... There's nothing else to buy, so why not?






Mor-Dan wrote:

add in the note that they have tweaked the resource spawns to include MORE of the RARE resources, and what you have is a forced recession. they are determined to deflate pricing and make new players as good as veterans, but that is whole different argument about why a group of players is being slapped in the face. the moves being made against the economy are fool-hardy and will result in long term problems for the lower level players since now a rich player cand afford to buy 5 weapons of the highest quality, instead of just one.


stop trying to help the economy, DEVs. stick with fixing combat and adding content. you're going to criple the non-combat side of things on the current path you have taken. you have been warned... and i WILL post the i told you so thread when it happens.




The other thing I'd expect to happen, as a result of all these changes reducing or eliminating the barriers to entry in crafting, is that more and more veteran crafters will become bored and give up. After all, if someone can come along and start making stuff identical to mine after a few weeks, what's the point of sticking it out for years? There's no more hoping to someday find that uber resource from August '03, since I can just create a stack of it on demand. There's increasingly little benefit to having been around for a long time, and the things that kept it interesting (finding resources, hiring hunters and other support staff, keeping them happy, and so forth) have pretty much been eliminated.


Anyway, I think the time is fast approaching when crafting in this game is no longer suitable to be someone's primary focus -- all of these recent changes seem to lead in the direction of crafting being something that someone's alt does to bring in a bit of extra money.





Ledao Bohi, Master Doctor
Now with 3 locations: Ledao's Meds in beautiful downtown Galatorbria, Rori (327 -1770), Ledao's Fine Pharmaceuticals @ UAT City, near Coronet (970, -5590), and Ledao's Premium Meds and Resources on Tatooine @ (-1922, -4041) just 750m SW of Bestine.
Comprehensive Stock and Price Listing Here
Implementor
Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:25 pm
#7






Ledao wrote:








Mor-Dan wrote:

[...]
the ADK also put those people with hundreds of millions in a position to not have to buy anything else and they can continue to increase prices on other loot that has more regulations, such as Acklay Bones, Skill Tapes, and Night Sister loot. there is an underlying reason WHY the krayt spawn increased, but i am sick of mentioning that group of peoples' name.

[...]








Don't forget the resource kits and increased creatureharvesting rates ('cuz we needed a 100% improvement there... guh)... Those had a profound impact on how crafters spend money -- I went from spending 75mil per month (on average) on resources, to spending zero. Overnight.


Now, of course, since I don't have to reinvest my income into my business, instead I spend all my money on weapons and loot... There's nothing else to buy, so why not?






Mor-Dan wrote:

add in the note that they have tweaked the resource spawns to include MORE of the RARE resources, and what you have is a forced recession. they are determined to deflate pricing and make new players as good as veterans, but that is whole different argument about why a group of players is being slapped in the face. the moves being made against the economy are fool-hardy and will result in long term problems for the lower level players since now a rich player cand afford to buy 5 weapons of the highest quality, instead of just one.


stop trying to help the economy, DEVs. stick with fixing combat and adding content. you're going to criple the non-combat side of things on the current path you have taken. you have been warned... and i WILL post the i told you so thread when it happens.





The other thing I'd expect to happen, as a result of all these changes reducing or eliminating the barriers to entry in crafting, is that more and more veteran crafters will become bored and give up. After all, if someone can come along and start making stuff identical to mine after a few weeks, what's the point of sticking it out for years? There's no more hoping to someday find that uber resource from August '03, since I can just create a stack of it on demand. There's increasingly little benefit to having been around for a long time, and the things that kept it interesting (finding resources, hiring hunters and other support staff, keeping them happy, and so forth) have pretty much been eliminated.


Anyway, I think the time is fast approaching when crafting in this game is no longer suitable to be someone's primary focus -- all of these recent changes seem to lead in the direction of crafting being something that someone's alt does to bring in a bit of extra money.







This is starting to feel true. Been master weaponsmith for 1 year, 12-points/force crafter for say 3 months. What's the point of getting special skills when any entry level person can do just as good (not to mention the waste of village time, creds, the grind invested for my assembly FS-skills and my now wasted skill points)


ADKs, billions of krayt tissue, no crit fails, super nerfs of the lower end but interesting enhancers (HPECs, feed mechs, nyms motors). This is the first time I have not enjoyed my Weaponsmithing, which bothers me ' cuz it's the main focus of why i log in every day


To say I am unhappy is an understatement. plain retarded





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EdOWar
Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:34 pm
#8

I'm not happy with the change either. I realize a lot of people like it, and it's not going to revert back anytime soon (i.e., never), but in my view critical failures were part of the risk of crafting.But there were numerous ways to mitigate the risk (Poyllian Cake, Assembly Tapes, FS Assembly skills).


Sure, it sucks when you geta crit fail on some nice krayt tissues; it also sucks when a NS Elder busts out a stun baton and gets a lucky hit on your mind pool. Just because there's some occasional bad luck doesn't mean somethingneeds to be removed.


Critical failure in experimentation sucks as well, and in some ways is even worse than a crit fail on assembly. How long until that's removed too? How long until we have a joyless plug-and-punch crafting system just like every otherMMORPG on the market? (Yay, it's the Barney crafting system...everyone wins!)


Well, there's my 2 creds on the matter.


Slim Vargo, Corbantis
pircio
Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:42 pm
#9






Ledao wrote:

Anyway, I think the time is fast approaching when crafting in this game is no longer suitable to be someone's primary focus -- all of these recent changes seem to lead in the direction of crafting being something that someone's alt does to bring in a bit of extra money.







lol you know how i love to argue with you, ledao, but this time i have to agree with you on this point. when i first started playing it was about learning the game, seeing what was out there and finding my niche. i got into it and started combat... i hated combat, my friend told me to to TKA, so i did, and although at near master and higher up its awesome, it was a boring grind and made me hate combat. so i mastered doctor, and after learning about the profession i decided to be a crafter. after months and months of research, resource gathering, and investing, i started making some money. and now that i have a mildly profitable business and plenty of stock to keep me busy for awhile making money, i spend it on my alt... who's intention was the extra skill points to dump into a combat character.


i spend almost 90% of all my profits on weapons/armor/and food for my alt.


crit failures? yeah it sux losing a bunch of janta bloods in an auto-failure, but it's not going to make me lose sleep at night.



Valcyn || IGN:: hexen - master architech, master artisan, businessman extraordinaire
Alt:: Seithe Moonstar - master swordsman, master fencer, master brawler, raging badass
New vendors coming soon, bringing you the finest in structures, homes, and vehicles
Ledao
Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:10 pm
#10






EdOWar wrote:

[...]

Critical failure in experimentation sucks as well, and in some ways is even worse than a crit fail on assembly. How long until that's removed too? How long until we have a joyless plug-and-punch crafting system just like every otherMMORPG on the market? (Yay, it's the Barney crafting system...everyone wins!)


Well, there's my 2 creds on the matter.


Slim Vargo, Corbantis





Exactly. The first step was reducing or eliminating the barriers to entry. The second step was allowing equal access to old resources. All that remains is to take the potential for variance out of the actual crafting engine.


I mean, I know exactly what stats I'm going to get before I actually go through the experimentation process, so why should I have to grind out 100 of something to get a usable schematic (or, why should I have to spend my xp points a certain way...)? Shouldn't it just be automatic? (/sarcasm off)


I just hope the dev team realizes, as they continue to suck the life out of the crafting and economic game, that there were MMOs with far better combat engines aroundas far back as1999... So I just don't get it.




Ledao Bohi, Master Doctor
Now with 3 locations: Ledao's Meds in beautiful downtown Galatorbria, Rori (327 -1770), Ledao's Fine Pharmaceuticals @ UAT City, near Coronet (970, -5590), and Ledao's Premium Meds and Resources on Tatooine @ (-1922, -4041) just 750m SW of Bestine.
Comprehensive Stock and Price Listing Here
Kalano
Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:30 pm
#11

Hotfix Update

Version 0.114815


Crafting


  • There are no longer critical fails on crafting (which would previously destroy components involved)


I fear that many are mis-understanding what has happened. Only the part where you put your resources in, is the part that critical failure has been removed from.


It is still there on the experimentation of the item your crafting. It is now like the Architects and SW have. I crit fail on the experimentation majority of the time on my RE kits since i have only three points to work with and my + skills are really low. So i do not make parts as good nor anywhere near as good as a master. I count it a lucky run when i have not a single failure, and they are rare.


There won't be abig up cert of great parts that resemble masters.To many jump to solid conclusions before asking critical questions and trying to understand what the messages really said.


Please stop panicing. So far the economy is still working thru all the changes. And it will keep on working. I fear many of us get way to uptight and take things way too personal in the game. If you not having fun, or not enjoying what you do, and hate what the devs did, then take a vacation from the game. I take vacation many times from it, and then come back happy and ready to do whatever i feel like. They haven't forced me to do anything i don't want to do. I still have the choice of choosing to play the way i want, or i can just leave.


Just relax, re-read what Tiggs stated and relaxe. Critical failures are still where they truely count. When you lost the resource was a punishment more than a random failure to me. Now it is mimicing life a bit more. You don't throw away 40 pounds of steel just because you failed the first time. No, you re-work it or re-use it else where. Now the critical failure at the begining acks like that. You lose a few seconds and try again.




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So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Mor-Dan
Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:05 am
#12



Zeon_Zaku wrote:
In no way, shape or form does remoic critical failures thrash the economy. Tell me, if you had a very rare or hard to get item (like the Mandarilian parts or AV-21 powerplant) and you lost them all in a critical failure, how would you feel? It can take hours, days, weeks, sometimes even months to get all the pieces for some items, and losing all of them in a critical failure would make all your work a waste of time. You'd lose all the money you spent to buy those items (if you bought any) and all the time you spent to get them would be for naught. Is that a worthwhile effort just to have critical failures?





i have lost everything from 300dmg acklay bones, to 150dmg krayt tissue, to a 435dmg scythe which would have been the best scythe ever on my server with pretty much any kind of damage slice. this is the same as removing force TEF from jedi. it weakens the game because it takes away a regulatory consequence from the game. the difference between this and, say, architect, is arch doesn't require any loot, just resources. did you lose a lot on a fail? yes. i used to be an arch too. and even KNOWING i never had to lose anything, i still preferred to use the system the way it was intended and take the chance. it ADDS something to have that chance to fail, and it keeps all the high end content a little more rare when 1 in 10 or 20 falls apart on assembly.

the fact is, they are watering down the game. period. it is sad to see that they listen to a minority as though it is a majority and are tinkering with systems that could use some changes, but are FAR down the pole from what NEEDS immediate attention.

and to all those 1 starring me, you're just morons who do not understand the type of damage being done to a free-market economy here. everytime something starts to stabilize, they screw it up becuase jedi or some other minority start complaining about prices on things that are SUPPOSED TO BE RARE! it is unfair to the rest of us who know how to manage our money and afford the things we have to have, need to have, and simply want. you are just as entiteled to your opinion as i am. don't star people based on their opinions. if you are going to participate in the star system star it based on content and did they complete thier thoughts with good arguments. stop acting like an A55 and 1 starring anything you don't agree with (obviously this is directed at no specific person because i don't who the 7 people are who have starred this thread).



Vendor Locations:
-1560 120 in Soal Valley, Corellia
-4700 5600 north of Theed, Naboo
Mor-Dan
Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:07 am
#13



Diaso wrote:


Mor-Dan wrote:
Hotfix Note:

There are no longer critical fails on crafting (which would previously destroy componets involved)





on the surface this may seem likea good thing, but it isn't. i am a master crafter. i lose things to crit fails just like anyone else. i am no where near being even in the top 20 of the richest players on my server. i LIKE the chance to crit fail. it occasionally keeps high powered weapons from being made. it keeps things that are supposed to be rare, RARE!!! this is every bit as bad of a "fix" as the anti-decay kit is a terrible "reward". you have once again taken money OUT of the community's hands and made it stationary in the pockets of those who already have it. was it your INTENT to cause a universal recession?




Shut up... thats all I can say to these whiners nowadays. If you don't like it then quit for a month and come back later when your done *****ing





you are worse than a whiner. you offer no solutions, just insults. it is people like YOU who need to leave the game for a while and gain some perspective. people are allowed their opinions and are allowed to post them. if YOU don't like it, don't read them.



Vendor Locations:
-1560 120 in Soal Valley, Corellia
-4700 5600 north of Theed, Naboo
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