Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Vendors for all crafting professions?
JosKroles wrote:
I was hoping to put in a suggestion to the devs, about all crafters being able to put down at least one vendor. For example as a doctor, i am by profession a crafter, and would like to sell my meds. i think it is bogus that i have to go thru a third party in order to sell my meds. Please devs, i beg you let docs put down vendors too!! thanks...
To be fair, no crafting profession has access to a vendor from their skill tree. The only difference between WS/AS/SW/Chef/Tailor/DE and Doc/CM/Smuggler/Musician/Ranger/BE is the first set of professions is 15 skill points closer to a vendor than the second set because they already have novice artisan. So technically, every crafting profession has to go through a third party to sell, unless they spend the skill points.
There is also something else unique about the second set of crafting professions - they all have non-crafting playstyles available to them (well, except BE I suppose - they almost are pure crafters). A smuggler can be a faction point broker, combat player, slicer, or crafter. All these are available from the base smuggler skill tree. A doctor can be a combat doctor, crafter, or buffer. Again, all from the base doctor skill tree. So one could argue that for a doctor, a vendor is more optional than for a weaponsmith, because crafting for public sales is essentially an optional activity for a doctor.
Now including ranger, smuggler, and musician may seem ludicrous, but they all have crafted items that can be sold as well. Should we exclude them? Not if we want to be completely fair.
I think there are workable solutions to allow elite crafters a greater ability to sell product. But the "solution" of spending skill points to get artisan business-3 or some merchant skills also seems to work fairly well for a lot of people. /shrug. I don't have the answers to this one.
JosKroles wrote:
I was hoping to put in a suggestion to the devs, about all crafters being able to put down at least one vendor. For example as a doctor, i am by profession a crafter, and would like to sell my meds. i think it is bogus that i have to go thru a third party in order to sell my meds. Please devs, i beg you let docs put down vendors too!! thanks...
Why would this be considered as "bogus"? To get a buff a combatant would have to go through a third party unless they want to use the skill points to be a doctor. To remove battle fatigue someone would have to go to a third party unless they are an entertainer themselves. As I've said before, crafting somethingdoesn't mean you must have your own store. You don't see too many Pepsi stores around, instead you have Wal Mart and other retail outlets selling the products that Pepsi produces. If you don't want to spend the skill points to get a vendor the way the system is now then you have to do just like all the other crafters do: get an alt to use as a vendor, sell on the bazaar only, sell in the trade forums, spam sell at starports or go through the third party who has made the skill point investment.
- Rebel Pilot 4/4/4/3That way any class/crafter can place a merchant, but they will have to do some work for it.
JosKroles wrote:
Happymob wrote:
JosKroles wrote:
I was hoping to put in a suggestion to the devs, about all crafters being able to put down at least one vendor. For example as a doctor, i am by profession a crafter, and would like to sell my meds. i think it is bogus that i have to go thru a third party in order to sell my meds. Please devs, i beg you let docs put down vendors too!! thanks...
To be fair, no crafting profession has access to a vendor from their skill tree.This is my point exactly..it doesn't seem fair that we have go thru a third party to sell our products. if i wanted to go open a store out on 5th ave. that sells copier machines the only third party i go thru, is my suppliers! what good does it do when i have suppliers bringing in resources, that I BUY and then no way to sell the productsi then make. your tryin to justify the fact that i have to then go one step further, and have a person open up a shop for me? why can't i open up my own shop? that isn't right, and i am asking for a little support in the matter.
The point you are missing here is that you are the SUPPLIER, not the merchant. You want the best of all worlds - to be the supplier AND the merchant all in one. True, those that sell you resources are YOUR suppliers - But it's a chain that in game needs to be followed -They supply you resources they harvest, you supply the merchant with items you craft from the resources, the merchant sells the finished goods. What you portray above illustrates how this system works - You just want to eliminate the merchant, and be one yourself.
The only difference between WS/AS/SW/Chef/Tailor/DE and Doc/CM/Smuggler/Musician/Ranger/BE is the first set of professions is 15 skill points closer to a vendor than the second set because they already have novice artisan. So technically, every crafting profession has to go through a third party to sell, unless they spend the skill points. My next point is that as a doc, i have no initial points in artisan to even start the business tree, so i have to waste even more valuable skill points to attempt to open up a shop, that since the nerfing that happend, once i drop merchant, or the business tree, i lose that vendor, so i can't even go back to the template that suits me, and makes the game more enjoyable. i have to stay a merchant. i reiterate my ealier statement....BOGUS!!
There is also something else unique about the second set of crafting professions - they all have non-crafting playstyles available to them (well, except BE I suppose - they almost are pure crafters). A smuggler can be a faction point broker, combat player, slicer, or crafter. All these are available from the base smuggler skill tree. A doctor can be a combat doctor, crafter, or buffer. Again, all from the base doctor skill tree. So one could argue that for a doctor, a vendor is more optional than for a weaponsmith, because crafting for public sales is essentially an optional activity for a doctor.
Now including ranger, smuggler, and musician may seem ludicrous, but they all have crafted items that can be sold as well. Should we exclude them? Not if we want to be completely fair. Also from the subject of the post i am not in any way saying to exclude the rest of the craftin world..i am saying let all of us elite crafters have a vendor..if i want to go into business for myself, in real world, i get someone to finance me, or put up the money myself, and voila..open up shop.
With very few exceptions, people who go into business themselves aren't the distributor of the goods - they are the makers of the goods for 3rd parties. In simple terms, you are in the business of making buffpacks. You can then use them to buff other players, or resell to a merchant at a lower cost so that both of you make profit. On the flip side, no matter HOW many buffpacks you sell to a Merchant, said merchant can NEVER buff another player - unless he spends the point to be a Doctor. I don't see merchants crying that they can't USE the goods they buy to sell to others - because they aren't supposed to. The system is set up to promote interdependancy - and you wish to eliminate that. You have a very simple choice - If you took doctor to not play AS a doctor, but merely to craft highly profitable buffpacks, accept the limitations you have imposed on yourself. Either sell to a merchant at a lower price, so you BOTH make credits, or get the Artisan skill and sell your own, and keep all the profits. In the end, it IS your choice to make. Saying that it's not fair you can't automatically eliminate the need for another player negates the whole point of an MMORPG.
I for one am a Shipwright. I also took some Merchant to sell my ships. I have also managed to get TKM, and a bit of medic thrown in for personal healing. I have accepted my point limitations, and made my merchant able to make items, sell them, and yet STILL be able to survive in combat. I accepted my limitations, and found ways to make it work. You can too,
I think there are workable solutions to allow elite crafters a greater ability to sell product. But the "solution" of spending skill points to get artisan business-3 or some merchant skills also seems to work fairly well for a lot of people. /shrug. I don't have the answers to this one.
Pawlin wrote:
It is tougher for Docs and BE to afford the skill points to get a vendor.
I've played a BE and had someone else ran the vendor for my stuff. Though less convenient it worked fine for me but thats only cause I knew and really trusted the merchant.
I think what really needs to be done is general improvement to the merchant class. If it waseasier to sell things through merchants in a secure way then people would feel less like they 'need' to run their own vendors.
Message Edited by Phaelyn on 02-07-2005 05:07 PM
umm do you remember when we did the big clean up to get rid of excess merchants to reduce lag?
wcmi92 wrote:
How about Merchant being made a SP-free tree like politician?
That way any class/crafter can place a merchant, but they will have to do some work for it.
Phaelyn wrote:
...
..Agreed. And while this runs a risk of potentially hijacking the thread in favor of a Merchant class discussion, it all comes down to the "trust" factor. The EASIEST fix would be to allow others to have access to vendor features. They place the items on a Merchant's vendor for sale at a pricing point they desire, and the system automatically does the math each sale, forwarding profits to both parties. Possibly make payoff scale a variable, giving the Crafter the choice to offer from 5% to 25% of each sale to the Merchant. I think this would cause Merchants to "bid" for crafters to use their Vendor - "Sell at my vendor for 5% instead of the guy next door at 10%" Call it an instant kickback system
To make it work though, I would take Merchant totally out of the Artisan line. Make it a self perpetuating profession like Politician. People who use the Merchant's vendors is what give him his XP. Also, remove any Vendor at ALL from Artisan line. Make Merchants what they are - Mass Merchandisers. Make Crafters what they are - Crafters, not salesmen.
...
Happymob wrote:
JosKroles wrote:
I was hoping to put in a suggestion to the devs, about all crafters being able to put down at least one vendor. For example as a doctor, i am by profession a crafter, and would like to sell my meds. i think it is bogus that i have to go thru a third party in order to sell my meds. Please devs, i beg you let docs put down vendors too!! thanks...
To be fair, no crafting profession has access to a vendor from their skill tree.This is my point exactly..it doesn't seem fair that we have go thru a third party to sell our products. if i wanted to go open a store out on 5th ave. that sells copier machines the only third party i go thru, is my suppliers! what good does it do when i have suppliers bringing in resources, that I BUY and then no way to sell the productsi then make. your tryin to justify the fact that i have to then go one step further, and have a person open up a shop for me? why can't i open up my own shop? that isn't right, and i am asking for a little support in the matter.
The only difference between WS/AS/SW/Chef/Tailor/DE and Doc/CM/Smuggler/Musician/Ranger/BE is the first set of professions is 15 skill points closer to a vendor than the second set because they already have novice artisan. So technically, every crafting profession has to go through a third party to sell, unless they spend the skill points. My next point is that as a doc, i have no initial points in artisan to even start the business tree, so i have to waste even more valuable skill points to attempt to open up a shop, that since the nerfing that happend, once i drop merchant, or the business tree, i lose that vendor, so i can't even go back to the template that suits me, and makes the game more enjoyable. i have to stay a merchant. i reiterate my ealier statement....BOGUS!!
There is also something else unique about the second set of crafting professions - they all have non-crafting playstyles available to them (well, except BE I suppose - they almost are pure crafters). A smuggler can be a faction point broker, combat player, slicer, or crafter. All these are available from the base smuggler skill tree. A doctor can be a combat doctor, crafter, or buffer. Again, all from the base doctor skill tree. So one could argue that for a doctor, a vendor is more optional than for a weaponsmith, because crafting for public sales is essentially an optional activity for a doctor.
Now including ranger, smuggler, and musician may seem ludicrous, but they all have crafted items that can be sold as well. Should we exclude them? Not if we want to be completely fair. Also from the subject of the post i am not in any way saying to exclude the rest of the craftin world..i am saying let all of us elite crafters have a vendor..if i want to go into business for myself, in real world, i get someone to finance me, or put up the money myself, and voila..open up shop.
I think there are workable solutions to allow elite crafters a greater ability to sell product. But the "solution" of spending skill points to get artisan business-3 or some merchant skills also seems to work fairly well for a lot of people. /shrug. I don't have the answers to this one.
Phaelyn wrote:
The point you are missing here is that you are the SUPPLIER, not the merchant. You want the best of all worlds - to be the supplier AND the merchant all in one. True, those that sell you resources are YOUR suppliers - But it's a chain that in game needs to be followed -They supply you resources they harvest, you supply the merchant with items you craft from the resources, the merchant sells the finished goods. What you portray above illustrates how this system works - You just want to eliminate the merchant, and be one yourself.
With very few exceptions, people who go into business themselves aren't the distributor of the goods - they are the makers of the goods for 3rd parties. In simple terms, you are in the business of making buffpacks. You can then use them to buff other players, or resell to a merchant at a lower cost so that both of you make profit. On the flip side, no matter HOW many buffpacks you sell to a Merchant, said merchant can NEVER buff another player - unless he spends the point to be a Doctor. I don't see merchants crying that they can't USE the goods they buy to sell to others - because they aren't supposed to. The system is set up to promote interdependancy - and you wish to eliminate that. You have a very simple choice - If you took doctor to not play AS a doctor, but merely to craft highly profitable buffpacks, accept the limitations you have imposed on yourself. Either sell to a merchant at a lower price, so you BOTH make credits, or get the Artisan skill and sell your own, and keep all the profits. In the end, it IS your choice to make. Saying that it's not fair you can't automatically eliminate the need for another player negates the whole point of an MMORPG.
Oscarbega wrote:
Why would this be considered as "bogus"? To get a buff a combatant would have to go through a third party unless they want to use the skill points to be a doctor. To remove battle fatigue someone would have to go to a third party unless they are an entertainer themselves.
Phaelyn Broke it down for you, it's as fair as it can be in the current system.
The second quote I found funny, should have left it at that with no examples though, pushes the same point.
Comes down to Trust vs Skill points,
You could trust someone or buy another account and turn your doc into a non-com crafter.
Derp-on-Flurry wrote:
Phaelyn wrote:
The point you are missing here is that you are the SUPPLIER, not the merchant. You want the best of all worlds - to be the supplier AND the merchant all in one. True, those that sell you resources are YOUR suppliers - But it's a chain that in game needs to be followed -They supply you resources they harvest, you supply the merchant with items you craft from the resources, the merchant sells the finished goods. What you portray above illustrates how this system works - You just want to eliminate the merchant, and be one yourself.
With very few exceptions, people who go into business themselves aren't the distributor of the goods - they are the makers of the goods for 3rd parties. In simple terms, you are in the business of making buffpacks. You can then use them to buff other players, or resell to a merchant at a lower cost so that both of you make profit. On the flip side, no matter HOW many buffpacks you sell to a Merchant, said merchant can NEVER buff another player - unless he spends the point to be a Doctor. I don't see merchants crying that they can't USE the goods they buy to sell to others - because they aren't supposed to. The system is set up to promote interdependancy - and you wish to eliminate that. You have a very simple choice - If you took doctor to not play AS a doctor, but merely to craft highly profitable buffpacks, accept the limitations you have imposed on yourself. Either sell to a merchant at a lower price, so you BOTH make credits, or get the Artisan skill and sell your own, and keep all the profits. In the end, it IS your choice to make. Saying that it's not fair you can't automatically eliminate the need for another player negates the whole point of an MMORPG.
Oscarbega wrote:
Why would this be considered as "bogus"? To get a buff a combatant would have to go through a third party unless they want to use the skill points to be a doctor. To remove battle fatigue someone would have to go to a third party unless they are an entertainer themselves.
Phaelyn Broke it down for you, it's as fair as it can be in the current system.
The second quote I found funny, should have left it at that with no examples though, pushes the same point.
Comes down to Trust vs Skill points,
You could trust someone or buy another account and turn your doc into a non-com crafter.
I want to be like mcdonalds, have my own stuff that i supply myself, and i don't want to spend valuable skill points to do it..REVAMP PLEASE SOE!!!...lol
i have put my two cents in... finis..
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