Brawler Archive
Thread: A constructive argument concerning ranged/melee balance (with solutions).
Well personally I have come up with two solutions to the melee/ranged balance PROBLEM. While I do feel that realistically a person wearing armor WOULD run slower than a person in plain clothes that it is not feasible in the context of this game and instead would like to propose one of two solutions (or any combination thereof)INSTEAD:
Also, I would like to mention that I AM a pistoleer and would UNDERSTAND and not be angry if either of these changes were implemented.
The Plan!
1)CONDITIONAL ranged user run speed reductions. This system would reduce the speed of pistol users by at least 30% and rifle/carbine user by at least 40% (asrealistically it would be easier to runand shoot using a pistol)operate under the following conditions: player is in combat, player is using a ranged weapon, player is running. So in essence when those three conditions are met the speed reduction will take effect that would prevent ranged users from having to de-equip their weapon in order to travel. This will allow melee users to close the gap while allow ranged users to kite them (although for shorter differences). It will also provide a nerf to mob kiting (you will still be able to kite the really slow ones) which is going to happen inevitably anyways. Also using this solutiona burst running ranged user should be able to outrun a melee user who is NOT burst running BUT a burst running ranged user should NOT be able to attack because they would be concentrating to hard on running for their life. This solution MUST also be applied to NPC's as well, this would solve the problem of melee users being completely kited by NPC characters (which is embarassing to say the least) without having to rewrite the AI scripting (which is NASTY and UGLY and HARD and TIME CONSUMING).
2) First of all this is the one I like more of the two and that is understandable because of the fact that I am a ranged user (although I am training to be master smuggler/pistoleer/TKA). ALL melee users get an appropraite named ability which they would be able turn on and off AT WILL and while activated would increase their runspeed 25% over that of standard PC runspeed.While this ability is activated afast ticking DOT would be applied to theaction pool (say 10-15 dmg/sec),you would only be able to activate/deactivateit every FIVE seconds (to prevent people from mashing the button to avoid getting ticked as often by the DOT). This ability SHOULD stack with burst run as ranged weapon users would STILL be able fire while burst running. I personally like this one because it does not NERF ranged users but instead brings melee users up to their level.
Some afterwords: Melee users SHOULD be able to attack while running, just as ranged users can. Vibro knuckler range needs to be changed to 5m and 2h weapons to 7m or 8m.
Regarding PvP: The current skillset takes into account combatting mobs with upwards of 10,000 HAM. Players generally always have a HAM bar under 1000 (see the problem developing). In PvP damage should be HALVED with a cap of 50% off any give HAM bar. Snipers would still be snipers but now it would take two shots rather than one with plenty overkill. This will prolong PvP fights and add interesting dynamics and the need for REAL strategy and planning in battles. Another major reason I propose this change is because of the current battlefield system. PvP battles can last for hours and if you die you are unable to re-enter the battlefield until the current battle is over so now instead of going out to a battlefield and getting capped off by a rifleman in one shot and instantly dying before you have the chance to fight anyone (or even see for that matter). I think this change would greatly benefit the current PvP system and increase the enjoyment of ALL PvP participants while NOT REDUCING the effectiveness of any given class.
Well I'm out of hot air for the day. If people really like my suggestion I would be more than happy to start my own threads in all melee professions forums. I really need the melee reps help on getting this one to the devs 
Well personally I have come up with two solutions to the melee/ranged balance PROBLEM. While I do feel that realistically a person wearing armor WOULD run slower than a person in plain clothes that it is not feasible in the context of this game and instead would like to propose one of two solutions (or any combination thereof)INSTEAD:
Also, I would like to mention that I AM a pistoleer and would UNDERSTAND and not be angry if either of these changes were implemented.
The Plan!
1)CONDITIONAL ranged user run speed reductions. This system would reduce the speed of pistol users by at least 30% and rifle/carbine user by at least 40% (asrealistically it would be easier to runand shoot using a pistol)operate under the following conditions: player is in combat, player is using a ranged weapon, player is running. So in essence when those three conditions are met the speed reduction will take effect that would prevent ranged users from having to de-equip their weapon in order to travel. This will allow melee users to close the gap while allow ranged users to kite them (although for shorter differences). It will also provide a nerf to mob kiting (you will still be able to kite the really slow ones) which is going to happen inevitably anyways. Also using this solutiona burst running ranged user should be able to outrun a melee user who is NOT burst running BUT a burst running ranged user should NOT be able to attack because they would be concentrating to hard on running for their life. This solution MUST also be applied to NPC's as well, this would solve the problem of melee users being completely kited by NPC characters (which is embarassing to say the least) without having to rewrite the AI scripting (which is NASTY and UGLY and HARD and TIME CONSUMING).
2) First of all this is the one I like more of the two and that is understandable because of the fact that I am a ranged user (although I am training to be master smuggler/pistoleer/TKA). ALL melee users get an appropraite named ability which they would be able turn on and off AT WILL and while activated would increase their runspeed 25% over that of standard PC runspeed.While this ability is activated afast ticking DOT would be applied to theaction pool (say 10-15 dmg/sec),you would only be able to activate/deactivateit every FIVE seconds (to prevent people from mashing the button to avoid getting ticked as often by the DOT). This ability SHOULD stack with burst run as ranged weapon users would STILL be able fire while burst running. I personally like this one because it does not NERF ranged users but instead brings melee users up to their level.
Some afterwords: Melee users SHOULD be able to attack while running, just as ranged users can. Vibro knuckler range needs to be changed to 5m and 2h weapons to 7m or 8m.
Regarding PvP: The current skillset takes into account combatting mobs with upwards of 10,000 HAM. Players generally always have a HAM bar under 1000 (see the problem developing). In PvP damage should be HALVED with a cap of 50% off any give HAM bar. Snipers would still be snipers but now it would take two shots rather than one with plenty overkill. This will prolong PvP fights and add interesting dynamics and the need for REAL strategy and planning in battles. Another major reason I propose this change is because of the current battlefield system. PvP battles can last for hours and if you die you are unable to re-enter the battlefield until the current battle is over so now instead of going out to a battlefield and getting capped off by a rifleman in one shot and instantly dying before you have the chance to fight anyone (or even see for that matter). I think this change would greatly benefit the current PvP system and increase the enjoyment of ALL PvP participants while NOT REDUCING the effectiveness of any given class.
Well I'm out of hot air for the day. If people really like my suggestion I would be more than happy to start my own threads in all melee professions forums. I really need the melee reps help on getting this one to the devs
Well personally I have come up with two solutions to the melee/ranged balance PROBLEM. While I do feel that realistically a person wearing armor WOULD run slower than a person in plain clothes that it is not feasible in the context of this game and instead would like to propose one of two solutions (or any combination thereof)INSTEAD:
Also, I would like to mention that I AM a pistoleer and would UNDERSTAND and not be angry if either of these changes were implemented.
The Plan!
1)CONDITIONAL ranged user run speed reductions. This system would reduce the speed of pistol users by at least 30% and rifle/carbine user by at least 40% (asrealistically it would be easier to runand shoot using a pistol)operate under the following conditions: player is in combat, player is using a ranged weapon, player is running. So in essence when those three conditions are met the speed reduction will take effect that would prevent ranged users from having to de-equip their weapon in order to travel. This will allow melee users to close the gap while allow ranged users to kite them (although for shorter differences). It will also provide a nerf to mob kiting (you will still be able to kite the really slow ones) which is going to happen inevitably anyways. Also using this solutiona burst running ranged user should be able to outrun a melee user who is NOT burst running BUT a burst running ranged user should NOT be able to attack because they would be concentrating to hard on running for their life. This solution MUST also be applied to NPC's as well, this would solve the problem of melee users being completely kited by NPC characters (which is embarassing to say the least) without having to rewrite the AI scripting (which is NASTY and UGLY and HARD and TIME CONSUMING).
2) First of all this is the one I like more of the two and that is understandable because of the fact that I am a ranged user (although I am training to be master smuggler/pistoleer/TKA). ALL melee users get an appropraite named ability which they would be able turn on and off AT WILL and while activated would increase their runspeed 25% over that of standard PC runspeed.While this ability is activated afast ticking DOT would be applied to theaction pool (say 10-15 dmg/sec),you would only be able to activate/deactivateit every FIVE seconds (to prevent people from mashing the button to avoid getting ticked as often by the DOT). This ability SHOULD stack with burst run as ranged weapon users would STILL be able fire while burst running. I personally like this one because it does not NERF ranged users but instead brings melee users up to their level.
Some afterwords: Melee users SHOULD be able to attack while running, just as ranged users can. Vibro knuckler range needs to be changed to 5m and 2h weapons to 7m or 8m.
Regarding PvP: The current skillset takes into account combatting mobs with upwards of 10,000 HAM. Players generally always have a HAM bar under 1000 (see the problem developing). In PvP damage should be HALVED with a cap of 50% off any give HAM bar. Snipers would still be snipers but now it would take two shots rather than one with plenty overkill. This will prolong PvP fights and add interesting dynamics and the need for REAL strategy and planning in battles. Another major reason I propose this change is because of the current battlefield system. PvP battles can last for hours and if you die you are unable to re-enter the battlefield until the current battle is over so now instead of going out to a battlefield and getting capped off by a rifleman in one shot and instantly dying before you have the chance to fight anyone (or even see for that matter). I think this change would greatly benefit the current PvP system and increase the enjoyment of ALL PvP participants while NOT REDUCING the effectiveness of any given class.
Well I'm out of hot air for the day. If people really like my suggestion I would be more than happy to start my own threads in all melee professions forums. I really need the melee reps help on getting this one to the devs
Well personally I have come up with two solutions to the melee/ranged balance PROBLEM. While I do feel that realistically a person wearing armor WOULD run slower than a person in plain clothes that it is not feasible in the context of this game and instead would like to propose one of two solutions (or any combination thereof)INSTEAD:
Also, I would like to mention that I AM a pistoleer and would UNDERSTAND and not be angry if either of these changes were implemented.
The Plan!
1)CONDITIONAL ranged user run speed reductions. This system would reduce the speed of pistol users by at least 30% and rifle/carbine user by at least 40% (asrealistically it would be easier to runand shoot using a pistol)operate under the following conditions: player is in combat, player is using a ranged weapon, player is running. So in essence when those three conditions are met the speed reduction will take effect that would prevent ranged users from having to de-equip their weapon in order to travel. This will allow melee users to close the gap while allow ranged users to kite them (although for shorter differences). It will also provide a nerf to mob kiting (you will still be able to kite the really slow ones) which is going to happen inevitably anyways. Also using this solutiona burst running ranged user should be able to outrun a melee user who is NOT burst running BUT a burst running ranged user should NOT be able to attack because they would be concentrating to hard on running for their life. This solution MUST also be applied to NPC's as well, this would solve the problem of melee users being completely kited by NPC characters (which is embarassing to say the least) without having to rewrite the AI scripting (which is NASTY and UGLY and HARD and TIME CONSUMING).
2) First of all this is the one I like more of the two and that is understandable because of the fact that I am a ranged user (although I am training to be master smuggler/pistoleer/TKA). ALL melee users get an appropraite named ability which they would be able turn on and off AT WILL and while activated would increase their runspeed 25% over that of standard PC runspeed.While this ability is activated afast ticking DOT would be applied to theaction pool (say 10-15 dmg/sec),you would only be able to activate/deactivateit every FIVE seconds (to prevent people from mashing the button to avoid getting ticked as often by the DOT). This ability SHOULD stack with burst run as ranged weapon users would STILL be able fire while burst running. I personally like this one because it does not NERF ranged users but instead brings melee users up to their level.
Some afterwords: Melee users SHOULD be able to attack while running, just as ranged users can. Vibro knuckler range needs to be changed to 5m and 2h weapons to 7m or 8m.
Regarding PvP: The current skillset takes into account combatting mobs with upwards of 10,000 HAM. Players generally always have a HAM bar under 1000 (see the problem developing). In PvP damage should be HALVED with a cap of 50% off any give HAM bar. Snipers would still be snipers but now it would take two shots rather than one with plenty overkill. This will prolong PvP fights and add interesting dynamics and the need for REAL strategy and planning in battles. Another major reason I propose this change is because of the current battlefield system. PvP battles can last for hours and if you die you are unable to re-enter the battlefield until the current battle is over so now instead of going out to a battlefield and getting capped off by a rifleman in one shot and instantly dying before you have the chance to fight anyone (or even see for that matter). I think this change would greatly benefit the current PvP system and increase the enjoyment of ALL PvP participants while NOT REDUCING the effectiveness of any given class.
Well I'm out of hot air for the day. If people really like my suggestion I would be more than happy to start my own threads in all melee professions forums. I really need the melee reps help on getting this one to the devs
Well, melee can attack while running, I've done it. But YES, we SHOULD be able to do specials like Dizzy since ranged can. How many times have I seen an Imperial running away from me, body shotting me over and over while I can't stop long enough to use a lunge even!?
If you really want to slove PvP, be a Rebel. Get in a really small, packed city like Anchorhead. WIth all the jam-packed NPCs, you can
A) Lose him/her in the crowd of players and NPCs.
B) Get in one of the tight areas, such as the tavern or cantina.
C) Have other players help you out
D) Get in a crowded area, then chase him/her before she/he can move. If you can keep up the pace and stay in range, you should be able to hit him/her quite a few times.
E) Chase him/her up a hill and have scout skills
F) Get them to go prone or kneel with a rifle, then get up real close and do a special or two, then chase them. Since they are prone, it will take them a second to get up, take out there pistol, and try to kite you.
Once you get close enough to a person, use lunge+dizzy to knock them down, then beat the bejesus out of 'em.
We could really use a full posture change like the pistol whip.
Think about something like a pommel or Hilt smash or bash type of attack that is a posture change. If we had something like this we would definately be more effective.
That is the life we live, I can not see it being any different. As is, if a ranged person lets me get close, and I can get a move off they go down. So something to stop them from running instead of slowing them down. If they slow them down and wecan get on top of them, itwill be a one shot drop and everyone will be screaming nerf.
Hmmm,
Maybe some kind of stealth for us brawlers to make it so we can get close but if we are seen we are toast. I dont know just brain storming.
Player stealth skills won't work because of the possibility of trainers.
Having ranged users run slower in combat makes sense, but it's not practical unless they completely redo how the /peace command works. There is no way to run from an NPC and stop firing as long as he is attacking you. So I would rather see a sprint command, or possibly a default speed boost for melees in combat.
Toxotes I believe I addressed the issue of which you speakl in two ways:
1) That rule no. 1 of'The Plan!'states would apply to all NPC's as well.
2) That the three flags for the conditional speed decrease be that: User is using ranged weapon, user is in combat, and user is in combat, and user is running. If a player was trying to run from an NPC an they hit the peace button and then one of flags would no longer be true thus the speed decrease void and null.
I did also state however that is would be a nerf to kiting, which will eventually happen (sad because I will miss kiting Kimo's) but true. A player would still be able to kite buy on average only at 65% as effectively before; on average however more likely 75-80% of the time because of the fact warningShot and maskScent will still be around
I don't mean to sound cold, it's late and it took me a good while to eek out this post 
WE MUST LOBBY FOR AN EDIT BUTTON NEXT!
yes we need something. I had to burst to catch the marksman shooting me, and I only caught him cause he wasnt bursting. Of course it was a one hit drop when i got them, but i died from just pistoleer running around me in circles. And headshots from someone thats not even on radar.