Brawler Archive
Thread: Warcry and Publish7
the problem that I see is that:
warcry1 is an AOE with a boolean delay of 10 secs (ie, the target(s) is/are delayed 10 seconds TRUE/FALSE). it costs 15 skill points.
warcry2 is an AOE with a boolean delay of 20 secs (again, a TRUE/FALSE condition of delay). it costs 77 skill points.
if this change reads as it seems... a 10 sec 'mez' is pretty much worthless (as the 'cone effect' doesn't seem to do well at blanketing 'crowds'). even if it is changed to a radius effect... elite brawlers rely on a number of AOE attacks (pike especially, but also swordsman... and fencer and TKA) which render a 'mez' effect truly useless. a 20 sec 'mez' suffers from the same problems... but costs more skill points to boot.
when 77 skill points grant you the ability to use a skill (and warcry, berserk, and intimidation skills are only +20 at master brawler) that will 'mez' only as well as a 15 point skill (10/20 seconds being irrelevant if the 'mez' is broken immediately).
I'm still waiting to see what the devs are ACTUALLY doing, and until they explain this new code to the correspondents (or push it to TC code), all we can do is guess. my primary concern is that the 77 point sink of master brawler will become a novelty, at best. currently it stands as an asset to groups... but that doesn't seem to be the way of the future.
Shidevie wrote:
Stixum wrote:
What are they going to do about melee professions being kited now?
Yeah, what are they doing to combat the melee professions from being kited by ranged professions? Also are they going to give Master Brawlers something to make up for this nerf? 50% of the reason to be a master brawler is being taken away with this change. Why not mitigate the Warcry to a master profession with a pre-requisit of mastering brawler in order to use it? I still feel that this change shows how little they communicate with the Correspondants and the community, we didn't find out about it until we read the notes about the upcoming publilsh changes.
Going through and re-working the high end stuff to give them high resists to this isn't as hard as they are letting it on to be, in EQ they can change a MoB's resists in a matter of minutes. They should be focusing on changing the problem of MoB resists not a skill that has the potential to break ALL melee classes.
It's not about difficulty in adding resists, its about the effectiveness of a move like that. It requires a lot of see-sawing to see what works, and even then, the fundamental problem remains. The kiting problem is being addressed in the combat rebalance.
MasterOfCombat wrote:
Shidevie wrote:
Stixum wrote:
What are they going to do about melee professions being kited now?
Yeah, what are they doing to combat the melee professions from being kited by ranged professions? Also are they going to give Master Brawlers something to make up for this nerf? 50% of the reason to be a master brawler is being taken away with this change. Why not mitigate the Warcry to a master profession with a pre-requisit of mastering brawler in order to use it? I still feel that this change shows how little they communicate with the Correspondants and the community, we didn't find out about it until we read the notes about the upcoming publilsh changes.
Going through and re-working the high end stuff to give them high resists to this isn't as hard as they are letting it on to be, in EQ they can change a MoB's resists in a matter of minutes. They should be focusing on changing the problem of MoB resists not a skill that has the potential to break ALL melee classes.
It's not about difficulty in adding resists, its about the effectiveness of a move like that. It requires a lot of see-sawing to see what works, and even then, the fundamental problem remains. The kiting problem is being addressed in the combat rebalance.
Why are these changes being made now and not when the coinciding problem is fixed? This gives ranged folkes that much more of an advantage until the combat revamp rolls through in 4-5 months.
Well I have a half guess, and a half know, but I can only really tell you my guess: They can't do it all at once. Balancing a game is not an easy thing, but its defineately one of the most important. It's probably happening now, so when they do a lot of the big things that they have planned, this isn't bogging them down.
One of the other correspondents had mentioned that Thunderheart had said things that take a person out of combat (ie: warcry, KD+Dizzy, etc) aren't fun, and will probably be slammed out of the park with the nerf bat (my wording, I'm paraphrasing a paraphrase so to speak). Again, my only guess is they want combat to be more interesting/strategic and not "Spam a special until it sticks, effectively allowing you to bludgeon their helpless body."
MasterOfCombat wrote:
Again, my only guess is they want combat to be more interesting/strategic and not "Spam a special until it sticks, effectively allowing you to bludgeon their helpless body."
And what's wrong with bludgeoning? 
Well, the amount of time Warcry sticks even at Master Brawler with BE-enhanced clothes for Intimidate\Warcry is not extremely high. I understand the frustration at being delayed and\or knocked down having been there myself many times, but I don't agree with changing this valuable attack. It doesn't seem neccesary to me, and, as I haven't seen even one-tenth the nerf-cries about Warcry versus the amount of UA KD II nerf-cries, I have to question the motivation here.
/scratches scaley head and looks puzzled
Please keep us informed Master.
Shrendyc wrote:
As a smuggler, I figured I would walk over here and lend some support to you guys. Having read this thread from end to end, my heart goes out to you melee fighters.
"Again, my only guess is they want combat to be more interesting/strategic and not "Spam a special until it sticks, effectively allowing you to bludgeon their helpless body.""
This may be what they want, but in truth, what strategy is there for brawler to use in a run and gun battle? "You don't bring a knife to a gun fight" and this phrase is around for a reason. I hope you guys win this argument, as "fixing it in the combat rebalance" is unacceptable. 4 months of being ineffective is unfair at best. I mean, heck, we're paying for the priveledge of getting borked.
Good luck guys - give 'em hell and know that some members of the smuggling community are behind you.
It's true that you don't bring a knife to a gun fight, but there's a reason that soldiers are taught basic hand-to-hand, and why Police Officers are trained not to draw their gun while being charged within a certain distance, it's because melee is just as deadly, and far more effective at close range. If you try to bring your gun toa knife fight, you'll find the table's turned.
I could easily argue that you shouldn't be able to run around with ANY gun and actually manage to hit me. Especially not running away from me. Game's need balance, and Brawlers, in my opinion, will do fine withouth warcry. It will be harder, but they'll survive.
At this juncture, I'd say there is no argument to win.
EDIT: Also, I wanted to re-mention that the KD + Dizzy will almost certainly also be hit with the nerf-bat somewhere in the foreseeable future.
Message Edited by MasterOfCombat on 02-27-2004 12:23 AM
as far as the changes....sounds like a bad move if you ask me