Brawler Archive

I have been building a TKA alt. But combat is just so sad. It seems the fight goes on forever and I end up near death after every fight. So today Ikept some logs of combat on the same mob using Pistol, One-handed Sword, and Unarmed (No VK).

Both the pistol and sword were good quality weapons and sliced. (This is nomal for most players). Not uber weapons or anything, just good weapons (FWG5, and curved sword).

I ran the numbers thru a spreadsheet, with very interesting results.

PistolSword Uarmed

My hits 2 311

Mob hits 0 127

Damage output 993 1063 1694

Damage Recieved 0 68 1411

I have no idea why I had to do almost twice the damge to get a kill unarmed as with a weapon, but that is what happens. I have noticed this before, and wondered about it. I would seem to have to do a lot more damage unarmed to kill the same mob. I just never sat down and added up the numbers before.

Note: the mob was blinded and stuned for the unarmed combat. With the pistol and sword he had no effects running against him. (There was not enough time for it to have mattered anyway.)

But I think you really need to take a look at unarmed damage.

After doing this, I really must have a screw loose to keep going for TKA.

This is not a call to nerf anything. But a wake up call that there is something really wrong with the unarmed balance.

Here are the logs excerpts. (I removedthe extra spam is all)

Pistol Tier IV
[Combat] Your Body Shot misses a vynock.
[Combat] You use Body Shot on a vynock for 487 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Body Shot on a vynock for 506 points of damage!

One-Handed Tier III
[Combat] You use Lunge Stab on a vynock for 234 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Skull Stab on a vynock for 355 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 68 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock misses you!
[Combat] You use Sai Mai on a vynock for 474 points of damage!
[Combat] You receive 235 points of Onehanded Weapons experience.
[Combat] You receive 23 points of Combat experience.

Unarmed Tier IV
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 66 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 66 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock misses you!
[Combat] You use Screaming Squill on a vynock for 182 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 55 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock misses you!
[Combat] You use Aryx Slash on a vynock for 179 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 39 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock looks like he's having trouble seeing clearly!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 49 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 50 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Steel Hands on a vynock for 181 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 48 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 40 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Steel Hands on a vynock for 180 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 65 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 49 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Steel Hands on a vynock for 166 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 36 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you, but you counterattack!
[Combat] You use Steel Hands on a vynock for 183 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 44 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 49 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Steel Hands on a vynock for 174 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 48 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 42 points of damage!
[Combat] You swing at a vynock, but he dodges out of the way.
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 52 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 63 points of damage!
[Combat] You swing at a vynock and hit for 96 points of damage.
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 42 points of damage!
[Combat] You swing at a vynock and hit for 88 points of damage.
[Combat] a vynock misses you!
[Combat] You use Leaping Veermok on a vynock for 135 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 50 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 44 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 38 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Leaping Veermok on a vynock for 135 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 56 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 51 points of damage!
[Combat] You use Riding Bantha on a vynock for 85 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock's vision appears to be returning.
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 44 points of damage!
[Combat] a vynock hits you for 52 points of damage!
[Combat] You swing at a vynock and hit for 83 points of damage.
[Combat] You receive 211 points of Unarmed Combat experience.
[Combat] You receive 21 points of Combat experience.

Now the low damage per hit is due to unarmed not having any weapons, but the raw damage not scaling up.

I will try to do some more logged testing later on tonite.

Thanks, I just hope the devs show some mercy on us. Unarmed needs a boost to our damage real badly. I just hope they read this and see that.

Nice post. I can give the most likely reason why unarmed takes twice the amount of damage, however.

Pistol - You only used Body Shot. All damage to Health.

Sword - High damage hits, and only a few. Most likely all to Health.

Unarmed - Due to the lower damage, you'll need to hit more, so your attacks will look much more like the curve shown by the average of attacks over a large number of samples. This is a problem because 50% of all hits will be to Health, 33.3% to Action, and the remaining 16.7% to Mind. On average it will always take twice as much damage as any other skill that lets you concentrate on a single pool.

Assuming DPS are all the same, this has the drawback that it still take you twice as long to kill a target, which means you take twice the damage. If the DPS is not the same, the gap becomes even more apparent.

unarmed needsa boost to damage?! haha where do you figure? you already get a bonus to damage as it is, all other melee professions do not get damage modifiers at all. and go figure a tka with a VK can outdamage my master swordsman blow for blow and does it at 2x the speed. understood all melee needs ham reductions, but i just don't see how a bare hand can do the same amount of damage as a big ol hammer or bladed sword, or a bladed pole for that matter. as well as have the same range haha.

I am master tk, master brawler. To keep a little realism in the fantasy, IT SHOULD BE THAT WAY.

Blasters are popular because they are easy. That is the way it is. Technology wouldn't exist if it wasn't better than nature. Guns SHOULD do more damage and you SHOULD take less damage while fighting...(it is at range after all). When someone with fists comes up and and gets shot, it should just naturally do more damage (whether it is lightning, energy, kinetic that comes outta that gun...it is designed to kill you /period/. Otherwise the gun would have NEVER been invented. It kills fast and easy, that is what it was made to do.

It takes a bit to kill someone barehanded, a bit of skill, deal with it. I am deadly and fast as a master tk/brawler up close but deal with gun \period\. It adds a bit of reality to the fantasy of this fiction.

I am NOT talking about Master TKA here, yes TKA is good. I am talking about unarmed brawler. While still in the brawler tree you do so little damage as to be laughable. It really needs to scale better.

Sure a MASTER TKA does well. But go ahead and duel unarmed IV, vs ANY other level IV. Try unarmed vs one-handed sword and come back and tell me how it went. You don't really have to too, I have tested it. I was beaten down, incapped and the swordsman had 90% of his ham left. I think he did more damage to himself with his special costs than I did with my blows. I also dueled two-handed sword and polearm as well. They were a bit closer, 80% and 70% of theirHAM was left when I was lying there staring at the stars. But I think that was more due to their higher HAM costs for specials than anything else.

So go duel 1 on 1 vs another brawler type, WHILE IN THE BRAWLER TREES, and come back and talk to me.

I feel your pain. I'm in the same area of learning right now, but I disagree.

Unarmed combat in the first ranks (brawler ranks) represents a base knowledge while Teras Kasi is monkhood. There are few unarmed guys that will want to fight a guy with a sword. Trust me on this point, I use both in real life (poorly, but I've practiced), trained more in martial arts, and there is no way I'd want to fight me with a sword. I would cut a guy like me down in 3 hits. Unarmed it would take me several blows to kill someone.

Now in game it sucks, I know. It takes forever to train your way up that 4th rank.

We are not talking about real life here. This is game balance. Real life is something different. (In real life I have been a student of the marshal arts for over 30 years. I have also studied sword styles of several civilzations, as well as polearms and staff. [Yes SCA and all]. So I do know about real life use of these weapons. And btw there are lots of ways to fight a swordsman with your bare hands. hehe)

But this is not real life, it is a game, and game balance is something else. And in this GAME unarmed does not balance against the other melee classes. Either unarmed needs a better damage curve, or it needs hand weapons like brass knuckles or simular. Right now it is just nerfed since they pulled the VK cert and replaced it with nothing. My point here is balance, unarmed should not be uber, but it should not be nerfed either.

Well, you can still use the VKs actually.

The damage is lower than if you were certified but +unarmed damage is added after the knuckler's damage is reduced. Even the worst knuckler will give you a speed increase, too.

If you like using specials I recommend a looted knuckler because they have very low HAM costs. If you want to hit fast go with a crafted pair. Either works it is just a matter of taste (I go with looted because I find using specials more fun).

The combat spam will make it look like you are doing less damage, but due to the 1.25 modifier for armor piercing (assuming armor works correctly; I have my doubts), you will break even. Since you attack faster your DPS will go up. You should probably try your number test with this method for fun. I predict you'll end up somewhere in the middle.

Kudoson the mucho butt kicking Kaledos, thats an impressive amount of experience there.

As for the unarmed brawler, the devs wanted them to suck. It basically says so in many postings. Butt aren't Teras Kasi super kick butt? I've seen them come into a cantina in Anchorhead and kill 7 or so people in a row before someone put them down. And we aren't talking wusses. The guy dropped a swordman twice and a few commandos (they grow on trees now days...).

At low levels they conform to reality a bit. I'd be pissed if a wuss brawler ran up to me and beat the tar out of me while I was holding a rifle (oh wait, it did happen TIME AND TIME AGAIN!) or a pistol.

I've noticed that the damage it shows in the combat tab is a bit higher than what floats over the mob's head. What's up with that? Like ifI see "-145" show over the creature, the combat window says something like "You use Steel Hands on a vrelt for 153 points of damage!"

/quote

I've noticed that the damage it shows in the combat tab is a bit higher than what floats over the mob's head. What's up with that? Like ifI see "-145" show over the creature, the combat window says something like "You use Steel Hands on a vrelt for 153 points of damage!"

/endquote

I noticed just today, that pretty often, when I've tagged something in, say that action pool...it also takes a little chunk out of the health pool alot of the time. That may be where the extra damage is coming from, that you're referring to.

This is just something I've "eyeballed" on the target's HAM, and in no way is backed-up by any "proof", hehe

Hah.. it cracks me up that someone can spend 30 years learning "marshal" arts and not learn how to spell it.