Brawler Archive

I tried to post this at the SWG Discussion board. Didn't get any replies. Maybe someone here thinks the same as I do, or have something else to add.

Hi,

I want to know what other people thinks about the following:

• The fact that Unarmed Brawlers have to waituntil reaching Teras Kasi Novice(216,000 Unarmed XP and60,000 Combat XP ) to get an attack that goes after one pool.
  
• The fact that Marksman get the same attack after 1000 Pistol/Carbine/Rifle XP. And even an improved version of that attack after 16,000 more Pistol/Carbine/Rifle XP.
  
• The fact that Brawlers can't hit an running enemy. It's like all brawlers are a bunch of retards who doesn't understand logic. What's even funnier is that NPC Brawlers have no problem with this what so ever.
  
• An Unarmed Expert in berserk is doing less damage than a Intermediate Pistol user with a decent gun using Body Shot 1.
  
• Fleeing mobs are a pain in the ass for unarmed characters. We can't hit running enemies, but they can both hit and run. Getting incapped by a kreetle who is fleeing is not cool.
  
• HAM costs. To all of us who plays aunarmed character knows how insane high this is. This creates a lot of problems - Since we have to attack all three pools, a fight usually last a bit. With the current HAM costs you almost end up killing yourself. Body Shot 2 for a Pistol Marksman costs 32 action pool.

Yes, I have a few beefs with the current unarmed system. I try not to bitch and moan about every little thing in this game, but when the basics of a profession is so unbalanced, it's hard to keep shut.

I played the entire Beta 3, and started aboutthree days ago playing the final release. I've made two characters, one Unarmed Brawler and one Marksman after release. And this is what I've experienced:

Brawler

• As a starting unarmed brawler you only have berserk as a usefull ability. When this is failing 4/10 times it gets rather useless since it costs a whooping 132 HAM. Losing 300-400 out of my pools in a battle is a disaster.
  
• Since we don't get any attack that goes after one specific pool, we often end up beating every pool of the enemy down to zero, meaning a marksman with body shot could have killed it three times.
  
• Destroy missions are hard. Since we use extra long to kill a single enemy, the nests spawnsa lot. I've counted as much as21 mynocks. They might be small, but they get nasty when they areseven at the time.

Marksman

• I could take out anything the mission terminal had to offer. It's all about standing 60 feet away and fire with a pistol (with excellent precision if I may add). By the time the enemy gets to you, it's very near death anyway.
  
• At Expert Pistol and Body Shot 2 I could kite Banthas. I started out 32 feets away and the started shooting. That's a nice 780 Pistol XP per kill. An unarmed would have been killed in less than ten seconds.
  
• PVP - A Marksman can join PVP rather early since s/he can both kite and attack one certain pool. A unarmed brawler joining earlier than Teras Kasi is nothing less than a meat shield. Since PVP plays a big role in SWG, this is simply unfair.

I've played both characters to an elite profession (ie: TKA and Pistoleer). I used two days on the TKA and one single day for Pistoleer. Did you know that anyone using a range attack can travel to Lok an kite a Kimo? That's 4000 XP per kill. The most I could get with my Unarmed was against Zuca Boars or Mound Mites, average 200-300 XP Per kill. Anything else just got to hard since I never attacked one pool.

I have more, but reading a lot sucks huh?

I addressed these question frequently in beta, often directly to Holocron, but I never ever got a response. And it's not getting any attention now either.

Those are my opinions and beefs. (Please don't mind whatever typos there might be, I'm tired and I don't feel like going over this).

While I haven't played this game nearly as long as you (Dude, 2 elite classes already? Get out more! ), I do have to agree with some of what you've said. It's really annoying having Health of a creature get down to 20 points and then you turn around and attack the legs. How lame is that? The pistol thing is so dead on, though. My friend uses a pistol and always hits body. I pretty much rotate through all three and he ends up doing the most damage. Bleh...

Also, what's the point of having Stun and Blind if they really don't do anything for you besides put the cool <color=green>+ Stunned +</color> above the enemy? Sure, the headbutt at the end is pretty spiffy, but that doesn't make up for the uselessness of it. And doing said attacks takes away a buttload of your action. I've been killed by the weeniest of creatures beacuse of that. I understand that it's supposed to be physical effort, but geesh...

I'm still doing the unarmed thing, though. Regardless, there's just something pleasant about beating the crap out of a giant frog.

I suck with HTML tags

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It's really annoying having Health of a creature get down to 20 points and then you turn around and attack the legs. How lame is that?

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Tell me about it. Especially if you're this (-) close to beating the enemy's health bar, and you start doing multiple attacks on the action or mind pool. Sometimes... I just flip over.

I play a brawler and I find Destroy missions incredibly easy. Don't know where you've been taking them.

well heres some advice...........get some VIBROKNUCKLES.....then you will be better equiped. i dish out 400dmg per hit with berserk (im master unarmed).

I am a Master Marksman, Master Unarmed, and Master 2 handed brawler.

The brawler class, although very fun is completely outclassed by anyone carrying a gun. Guns are far more powerful then melee. The brawler class is poorly implemented and completely unfinished. It seems not as much though was put into the class as all the gun carrying proffessions.

I have become a master marksmen in less time then it to took me to reach unarmed master or 2 handed master. That should make it apparent that there is some real work needed with the brawler class.

I can sit out at 64 meters and 1 shot kill most mobs and 2 shot the others, with LOWER HAM costs then my brawler special moves. I take 0 damage, with 0 risk making it 0 downtime. I can take out a lair with my rifle in under 1 minute. It takes me 10-15 minutes going unarmed to take out the same lair . I usually get incapacitated once as I get MOB pops on me plus a couple lair spawns. With my rifle any one of them would be dead in 1 shot.

If for some chance a MOB jumps me I can use warning shot or threaten shot to make them run away in fear then pick them apart. If a humanoid jumps me I can use suppression fire to drop him to the ground then pick him apart. Oh but wait theres more, I even have pointblank shot so I don’t suffer any accuracy loss while in close range with my rifle. Wheres my 64 meter long range punch and kick skill so I can suffer no penalty to hit?

Brawlers on the other hand have to run in and engage, taking all the risk and killing themselves with there own special moves. Which cost more then my gun specials by the end of a fight. Brawlers are taking all risk with more than twice the damage a gun carrying class is. If we use berserk we can take upwards of 4 times the damage. Its become very annoying having to constantly run back to town to heal because you have no way to avoid damage like a marksman.

My accuracy in melee range is –5 when unarmed or using an axe. My pistol is +10. Kind of silly. If I can use my rifle to get a +50 to accuracy at an optimal range of 35 meters why can my brawler not receive the same kind of bonus at optimal melee range. Instead my brawler takes a penalty for being at optimal range for his class profession but a marksman receives a bonus?

Why does my unarmed skill not get a specific pool hit? My 2 handed gets a mind hit, if I had gone 1 handed I would have action hits. I know unarmed receive the status effects, but they do not work. My stun attack NEVER stuns my opponent. However with my carbine I can stun a MOB almost constantly, yes stun at point blank range. Not to mention make him run around in circles with warning shot and threaten shot and I can use selectable action pool attacks.

I was always told never to voice a complaint without some constructive ways to fix them so here they are.

1. Lower the HAM costs for brawlers by 50% at least for all brawler skill trees
   
2. Fix the accuracy in melee range, melee should receive a bonus for being at optimal melee range just as markman do
   
3. Increase the brawler melee defense in all skill trees
   
4. Give each skill tree in the brawler class a dodge or block skill. A skilled brawler will actually learn how to develop this not so unique skill of their profession.
   
5. Give brawlers the ability to counterattack. MOBS counter attack me all the time, avoiding my hit then actually hitting me, why can’t I counterattack them? A little kreetle can counter attack yet a master brawler like myself cant. Heh!
   
6. Ranged attack accuracy while moving should drop by 500 at least.
   
7. Pointblank attack should be removed as a skill THIS DEFEATS THE NEED FOR A BRAWLER. If I can do 500 points of damage in melee range with a gun why the hell be a brawler with all the other problems the class suffers from
   
8. Fix the unarmed stun attack to actually stun because it does not, but I can with my carbine.
   
9. Give the unarmed a lower level weapon to use like Brass knuckles that a novice engineer can make. The lack of any kind of unarmed weapon until a weaponsmith makes such a high skill level is an amazingly ignorant oversight.
   
10. Unarmed Hit should target health, unarmed stun should target action, and unarmed blind should target mind. An unarmed fighter is no less a marksmen with his fists then a marksman is with a gun.
    
11. Fix shooting through hills and mountains. As a brawler this is one of the worst problems. In a PVP game proper terrain usage is a must for brawlers vs marksmen. With a radar for marksmen to see me and the ability for them to shoot through the hils/mountain I stand no chance when they can hit me for 1000 SELECTABLE mind pool damage before I can get to them.
    
12. Berserk is totally out of control and implemented poorly. We already lose all of our special attacks and add to that the penalty MOBS never missing us and taking double damage. With some of the other ideas implemented above changing berserk to something like +25 damage, +25 Accuracy, -50 Defense would be better.
    
13. Unarmed attack speed shoud be faster. if a pistol can do over 300 dmg and attack just as fast unarmed should at least be able to attack faster.

Make changes similar to these and brawlers can actually be brawlers and not cannon fodder.

With everything already said i have one more thing to add to this list.. and it seems to happen a lot to me. I will find a mob i want to attack.. spend all my ham failing beserk and when i finaly get it to work and i attack ill stand there dumbly and not hit the enemy.. while he is sitting there hitting me with melee dmg and i just smile as i watch myself get incaped with out hitting back once.. its happened to me at least 10 times since i started this character now that may not seem like alot but it does get annoying over time. and so does running out to get your body when you know you shouldnt have died.

I like brawler i find it more fun then marksmanI think it just needs a few things to make it more even.

Here Here!!!!!!

Jirimar

Nice post, Faethor.

I copied and pasted it in the same thread at the SWG Discussion board.

The major problem I see with brawlers is the difference in experience obtained when compared to a marksman. When looking at a solo brawler compared to a solo marksman, we see that because the brawler receives so much damage, he has less time to inflict damage before he is incapacitated. Tee brawler also has more downtime between fights as well. Both of these traits of a brawlers fight style forces the brawler to advance at a much slower rate soloing.

When looking at brawlers and marksmen grouped, the same applies. Brawlers take more damage and need to pull out sooner than marksmen and have large amounts of downtime as well. Brawlers also have another disadvantage when grouped with marksmen in that brawlers specials are spent on inflicting statuses and distracting enemies rather than just inflicting large amounts of damage. In a game where you are competing for experience based on damage, it results in the experience majorly skewed in the marksman's favor.

The whole concept of "group contribution" for experience is implimented poorly. Basing experience soley on damage makes it very hard for the professions that cannot deal as much damage, but play important roles in combat as well.

I agree. Brawler needs work.

I agree. Not being able to target a specific HAM pool and xp based purely on a brawlers (unarmed) crappy damage output really hurts.