Brawler Archive

Thread: Top 5 things You would like to see from the Combat Balance for Brawler

Mapai
Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:41 am
#1


Here is a link from the last post asking for a top 5 :


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=brawler&message.id=9743


Here is the text from the last time this was created:




It's time once again for a Top 5, so without further ado I'll toss on what appears to be the issues of the day:



  1. Warcry: As it is warcry is much less effective than it should be, requiring a brawler to essentially kite a group of mobs to effect them with this skill. Making it AoE would greatly improve it's performance.
  2. HAM Costs: The HAM costs associated with Warcry, Intimidate, Taunt, and Berserkare all high. Coupled with a high failure rate even at master and while using Bio-enhanced clothing. Decreasing cost or increasing success rates would be helpful.
  3. Polearm Toughness: This is +4 in the Brawler tiers 3 and 4, compared to the +10 in One-handed, Two-handed, and Unarmed, making aspiring Polearm wielders significantly less durable than their counterparts.
  4. Unarmed damage is too low in Brawler, it is easily outmatched at every tier by the armed Brawler classes. Moving damage and/or speed down from TKN would greatly improve the experience. Also, adding in a low level Unarmed weapon (ie Brass Knuckles - no fancy technology here) would be a favorable addition.
  5. Most Brawler weapons are unused because they lack an attribute that would make them situationally better than another. This is especially true in One-handed and Two-handed. Altering speed, damage, armor piercing, or other portion of the weapon would help to provide each with a different role.
  6. Change the One-handed 4 title to Apprentice Fencer, and Two-handed 4 title to Apprentice Swordsman for consistency with other titles.
  7. Adding additional damage types to the different trees would be welcome
  8. Change Berserk2 to allow specials, or to be turned off when you use it. As it is, at th level a player recieves it it is lesseffective than using several specials, as well as preventing a Brawler from executing a move such as a: Knockdown, Intimidate, Warcry, inflicting a status effect through an attack. These may be the difference between life and death.

This is what I've garnered from the past month or so as the issues that are important to Brawlers.


If you have any issues to add, please do, and put with ita brief explanation of why you feel it is important (even if it seems obvious). Also, if you have any generic requests to the tune of: Bugand Exploit fixes, new stuff (weapons,abilities etc), or to change existing stuff (again weapons, abilities, etc) feel free to add that as well, along with a brief description of why you think it would be a positive change or addition.


Message Edited by Mapai on 06-04-2004 06:41 AM



Intrepid- Mapai FS Bounty Hunter
Intrepid- Catio Swordsman/Doctor
Eclipse- Mapai Master Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA
Eclipse- Eihou Master Swordsman/Fencer/Brawler
Intrepid- Ataut Dark Jedi Knight
Loot Vendor 453, -4812 Tal Valor, Naboo
SYNISTER YET NOBLE
3D4D
Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:41 am
#2


  1. Warcry: As it is warcry is much less effective than it should be, requiring a brawler to essentially kite a group of mobs to effect them with this skill. Making it AoE would greatly improve it's performance.


    1. I suggestjust Dumping warcry and giving us an ability to catchup to fleeingenemies.Yes we have burst run, but that is aone time use.

  2. HAM Costs: The HAM costs associated with Warcry, Intimidate, Taunt, and Berserkare all high. Coupled with a high failure rate even at master and while using Bio-enhanced clothing. Decreasing cost or increasing success rates would be helpful.


    1. I agree, Increase the Accuracy of planting these affects, or decrease the HAM.

  3. Polearm Toughness: This is +4 in the Brawler tiers 3 and 4, compared to the +10 in One-handed, Two-handed, and Unarmed, making aspiring Polearm wielders significantly less durable than their counterparts.


    1. Polearm Is even worse than Unarmed when It comes to damage.

  4. Unarmed damage is too low in Brawler, it is easily outmatched at every tier by the armed Brawler classes. Moving damage and/or speed down from TKN would greatly improve the experience. Also, adding in a low level Unarmed weapon (ie Brass Knuckles - no fancy technology here) would be a favorable addition.


    1. I disagree, I have Mastered Tera Kasi twice, and I find found the Unarmed branch of brawler to be easy to complete. You just have to make use of every advantage. A brass Knuckle isn't a bad idea though.

  5. Most Brawler weapons are unused because they lack an attribute that would make them situationally better than another. This is especially true in One-handed and Two-handed. Altering speed, damage, armor piercing, or other portion of the weapon would help to provide each with a different role.


    1. Sounds good.

  6. Change the One-handed 4 title to Apprentice Fencer, and Two-handed 4 title to Apprentice Swordsman for consistency with other titles.


    1. No big game play issue here.

  7. Adding additional damage types to the different trees would be welcome


    1. Doesn't really bother me, butI feel that Additonal damage types should be placed in the elite trees.

  8. Change Berserk2 to allow specials, or to be turned off when you use it. As it is, at th level a player recieves it it is lesseffective than using several specials, as well as preventing a Brawler from executing a move such as a: Knockdown, Intimidate, Warcry, inflicting a status effect through an attack. These may be the difference between life and death.


    1. I was just thinking the same thing. I think that at Master brawler any Berserk used should allow for specials to be used as well. Just have the Berserk effect the HAM cost of the specials that way we can't spam super powerful specials without killing ourself.



/meditate

Bria- Master Medic / Master Brawler / TKM ~(Hero of Tatooine)~

Scylla- Carbineer / TK ~(Hero of Tatooine)~

Tempest- Master Doctor / TKM
SlickDevlin
Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:13 am
#3

Brawl - definition


Etymology: Middle English
1 : to quarrel or fight noisily : WRANGLE
2 : to make a loud confused noise



I would like to see the Brawler profession become more of an all around scrapper class.


The current model as it exists is pretty good, I think that there are some additional animations and specials that could be implemented to make pursuing Master Brawler more enjoyable.


Each tier of brawling expertise (+box unarmed, +box 1hand, +box 2hand, +box polearm) should confer a unique ability, animation or special making the "brawler" path more fun and desirable.


All of these should be geared to making the Brawler a more scrappy, melee instigator. I think you could even assign horizontal tier titles:


Punk

(+1 box unarmed, +1 box 1hand, +1 box 2hand, +1 box polearm) :

Extensive use of Taunt. A more viable form of Rescue that aggros mobs to melee with you.


Roughneck

(+2 box unarmed, +2 box 1hand, +2 box 2hand, +2 box polearm) :

Elbow Smash - A quick attack with med kinetic dmg. that can be done with ANY MELEE weapon equipped and has a slight chance of stun.


Basicly, the brawler throws a quick elbow inbetween attacks with primary weapon.


Thug

(+3 box unarmed, +3 box 1hand, +3 box 2hand, +3 box polearm) :

Body Check - A quick attack with med kinetic dmg. that can be done with ANY MELEE weapon equipped and has a slight chance of knockdown/posture change.


Basicly, the brawler usestheir primary weapon to push off against their opponent, forcing them into a different posture.


Bruiser

(+4 box unarmed, +4 box 1hand, +4 box 2hand, +4 box polearm) :

Headbutt - A quick attack withlight kinetic dmg. that can be done with ANY MELEE weapon equipped and has a slight chance of dizzy and hits the mindpool.


Basicly, the brawler gives a head bash inbetween primary attacks.


Master Brawler

Shoulder Charge - A cone attack burst run that can be used with any weapon equipped, causes the MB to charge through hitting all opponents in his charge line (cone) and has a slight chance of applying any number pf random state-based effects.


Basicly, the MB barrels into their opponents wreaking havoc!


It should be these kind of things that differentiate a Brawler from the specialists. A Brawler is someone who loves to fight and can improvise with any weapon under any circumstance. Brawling should be less about skill and finesse and more about experience, grit, attitude, and determination.


Juzza - Flurry




Juzza - Master Snuggler of Flurry

"I love you, you love me, we all hate jedi can't you see..."

Barney Lives!
UnseenForce
Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:04 pm
#4

Some things I'd like to see would be different stances. Marksman have kneel and prone (and though we can kneel or go prone too, it only makes us unable to attack).


Standard Stance: This is the default stance used by all melee fighters. This stance gives no bonuses nor penalaties when fighting with a melee weapon.


Defensive Stance: This stance puts a melee fighter into a defensive posture which allows him/her to better dodge, block, and counterattack all attacks. It also makes him/her harder to hit and to have effects (such as dizzy, stun, blind, etc.) stick. While in this stance, attacks are slightly slower and specials are less effective in sticking effects. A fighter's damage range is also slightly reduced.


Offensive Stance: While in an offensive posture, a brawler will have more damaging attacks and will better be able to stick effects such as blind or dizzy. A fighter in this stance will be more vulnerable to effects such as dizzy and blind and is easier to hit and have a harder time dodging/blocking/counterattacking.



Insusurro Gafiw

Master of the Single Handed Blade

Master of the Art of Tera Kasi

and Master of the Brawling Profession



Live well, Fight with honor, Rest in Death
Darigon
Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:48 pm
#5

as a master brawler the absolute only time i ever use berserk2 is when my mind is almost gone or when im on a maun downer. i intimidate2 the hell out of whatever im fighting and berserk2 right before the downer hits or right when im about out of mind. id like to see some changes to berserk to make it a more viable skill. ill leave the specifics to my betters.



~Darigon - Human Master Brawler, Master Swordsman, Master TKA, Fencer 3440

~Behold, a Pale Horse, and the Man who rode on It was Death, and Hell followed with Him.

~Ask not for whom the Bell tolls.... it tolls for Thee...
Mapai
Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:20 am
#6






UnseenForce wrote:

Some things I'd like to see would be different stances. Marksman have kneel and prone (and though we can kneel or go prone too, it only makes us unable to attack).


Standard Stance: This is the default stance used by all melee fighters. This stance gives no bonuses nor penalaties when fighting with a melee weapon.


Defensive Stance: This stance puts a melee fighter into a defensive posture which allows him/her to better dodge, block, and counterattack all attacks. It also makes him/her harder to hit and to have effects (such as dizzy, stun, blind, etc.) stick. While in this stance, attacks are slightly slower and specials are less effective in sticking effects. A fighter's damage range is also slightly reduced.


Offensive Stance: While in an offensive posture, a brawler will have more damaging attacks and will better be able to stick effects such as blind or dizzy. A fighter in this stance will be more vulnerable to effects such as dizzy and blind and is easier to hit and have a harder time dodging/blocking/counterattacking.







Interesting Idea, not sure how hard it would be to impliment but sounds cool.





Intrepid- Mapai FS Bounty Hunter
Intrepid- Catio Swordsman/Doctor
Eclipse- Mapai Master Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA
Eclipse- Eihou Master Swordsman/Fencer/Brawler
Intrepid- Ataut Dark Jedi Knight
Loot Vendor 453, -4812 Tal Valor, Naboo
SYNISTER YET NOBLE
drezbizkit
Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:00 pm
#7

Defensive Stance sounds an awful lot like Center of Being

Offensive Stances sounds an awful lot like Berserk
swankiller
Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:17 pm
#8

yeah but berserk is completely and uterly useless



Remos.President.of.the.3/4.inch.club
| 1&1/2 on a good day | KRA
LuapLink
Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:39 am
#9

How about a Taunt 2, it would be a AoE taunt with a range of about 16m. That would be enough to pull agro from your group but not enough that it should agro every mob for a mile.



Orba Bunsen - Master Snuggler/Pistoleer(Test Center)
Oorba - Master Fencer/Brawler/Swordswookiee(Test Center)
Abor Ava - Master Commando(Test Center)
EmbracerOfDarkness
Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:14 pm
#10

swankiller : "yeah but berserk is completely and uterly useless"


I find that I use berserk alot, mainly on lairs, as it makes you do more than double damage. Very useful indeed.
Mapai
Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:26 pm
#11






LuapLink wrote:
How about a Taunt 2, it would be a AoE taunt with a range of about 16m. That would be enough to pull agro from your group but not enough that it should agro every mob for a mile.






I like that one.



Intrepid- Mapai FS Bounty Hunter
Intrepid- Catio Swordsman/Doctor
Eclipse- Mapai Master Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA
Eclipse- Eihou Master Swordsman/Fencer/Brawler
Intrepid- Ataut Dark Jedi Knight
Loot Vendor 453, -4812 Tal Valor, Naboo
SYNISTER YET NOBLE
Daigoro202
Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:27 pm
#12

One thing worth considering would be whether there was some bonus or ability that would make brawler worthwhile even if you do not become an elite master.


For example, there are several benefits to having Scout without necessarily wanting to pursue Master Ranger, Master Bounty Hunter, etc. Perhaps even more indispensible for some players is Novice Medic, without needing to become a doctor or CM.


I've heard that in the combat balance, players with armor will receive a movement penalty-- maybe something in Brawler could offset this.


Or, maybe a more general bonus to movement while in engaged in combat, so people could choose either scout or brawler to enhance their run speed.


An idea I've thought about along these lines is an active "Battle Charge" ability that would work on the same principle as Burstrun except faster speed over a shorter period of time, maybe it could provide an attack bonus on the principle that you would be rushing your opponent. Perhaps it could be enhanced with good burstrun stats from scout. It could be similar to the way the "Cover" state benefits a prone rifleman, a melee fighter would be at an advantage while charging.


I would picture a level 1 version given at novice, and a level 2 at master like intimidate or warcry-- so an elite marksman that happened to have novice brawler trained could take advantage of some of this, a more dedicated brawler would benefit from it much more.


I think this is a little bit of what the devs had in mind with the Lunges,but this could add a little more depth, and lunge and charge could be used as combination.







_______________

received: from unknown (swg.eclipse.daigoro)

TheShrak
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:35 am
#13



With regards to stances. Essentially that is what cob and berzerk are but I think they need to be tweaked to work differently.


CoB would be a defensive stance, granting you added state defenses and a better chance to dodge/counterattack/block, while slightly raising your ranged and melee defense(possibly a toughness bonus). However the penalty for using this stance is that one cannot use any attack specials. The only specials you could use would be taunt, intimidate, and warcry, making one a tank instead of a damage dealer.


Berserk would be the offensive stance, granting one increased accuracy and damage, but lowering ones ranged and melee defense along with your state defenses (with an immunity to intimidate or very high state vs intim, possibly stun too) and cause one to dodge/counterattack/block less often. While in this stance you can use all your special but warcry, taunt and intim turning one into a damage dealer and taking away ones ability to tank.


And a normal stance where one would receive no benefits and could use any special they had.


Other than stances/changes to berserk and CoB, I think possible adding in a taunt 2, like suggested, at master brawler and making it AoE. Possibly moving some of taunt mods to the unarmed 4, two handed 4, polearm 4, and one handed 4. So that non-masters can effectively use taunt, just not as well as a master.


I would like to keep warcry the way it is however due to the fact that if it was AoE it would be to powerful and there isn't really a problem with it the way it is now if you know how to use it properly.


Basically I would like to see brawlers turn more into tanks than damage dealers.





-=Shrak Xyclone=-

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