Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: Duelist stance does not seem to be working properly

Haywood
Wed May 05, 2004 7:02 pm
#1









Barafu wrote:
A few points:

-The accuracy mod on guns doesn't actually work at the moment. Check the weaponsmith forums for confirmation of this.


Thanks for that info I had not heard a definite answer, but from my own observation I do not see it working.

-Second, the number of attacks is too small to show a statistically signficant difference between your two tests. If you don't know statistics you'll have to trust me. If you do, then I think the following is the correct analysis.

Assuming a random distribution of tohit probability (which is unlikely since there is probably some diminishing returns involved) and if I remember my statistics correctly then the 1 standard deviation spread on your first test is: 17%-50%. The second test's spread is: 54%-92%. These numbers are the reasonably likely (the 66% likely to be precise) values for the "real" expected tohit chance. So the value that the game thinks is the real expected value for test 1 is somewhere between 17% and 50% probability for the attacker to hit. The game then generates a random value (which again may not be linearly distributed) and compares that to the tohit probability. As you can see, the probability ranges for these two tests are quite close, hence my statement that is difficult to say the two tests show any statistical difference.


I agree I am going to get a MDEF guildie to test this out. Time to see what mods actually work and what does not. Also curious how well duelist stance works.



-Third, are you sure that you were using the same exact to hit probabilities the whole time for both test? Did your pyro run out (it has a really short duration as I'm sure you know)? Did the crispic run out? Did your duelist stance ever drop (if for instance your macro misfired)?


My macro was set to 26 seconds so there was no missfire and the the pyro I was using was a 46 second duration. I can hit just at 1 shot evershot under 1.5 seconds so that is why I only tested for 30 shots.

-Did the +100 defense from food come from vegeparsine? If so, then you should check the chef forums about vegeparsine. It doesn't really work as it should. There's a thread in this forum about the melee/ranged defenses problems.


I used PIco Thunder cloud and re-equiped my weapon after taking the food.

Thanks for posting your info. I've been curious about tohit probabilities myself for a while so I welcome the information and I hope I don't come across as too critical. I just wanted to clarify the items I posted about.







I am trying to round up a guildie MDEF to test this out. I am aware that my 30 shots is a small test and not statically sound but I have a strong feeling 200 shots or 2000 shots will show the same thing. The big problem will be using the pyro since it filling is very high.




Message Edited by Haywood on 10-04-200507:08 PM

Message Edited by Haywood on 10-04-2005 07:08 PM




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Haywood
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:12 pm
#2


I am a MBH/MCARBS/CM4000


With skill tapes here are my stats -


275 Accuracy + Pyro(219) +60 Accuracy on E11MK2 = 554 Accuracy


283 Defense +100 food, +250Duelist stance = 633 defense


Against a MDEF with Melee defense skill tapes and aura and valor running (240 total melee defense) I was able to hit 10 out of 30 shots or 33% hit rate.


Holding my Carbine and using a duelist stance macro I asked the MDEF to attack me while he was using crispic. His total accuracy was 327 and out of 26 attacks he hit me 19 times or a 64% hit rate. Something is not adding up here.


To sum this up.


BH with 544 accuracy against a target with a 740 defense the hit rate is 33%


Jedi wtih 327 accuracy against a target with 633 defense the hit rate is 64%.


Can some one please help me out or let me know what extra info is needed. Of note no pitake pie (dodge food) was used.


Thanks




Message Edited by Haywood on 10-04-2005 06:21 PM




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Akast
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:19 pm
#3

well u got to factor in did he have vergspine thats another 10-0 def adn also block, i would bet a lot of them shots are blocks not misses, i killed an mdef today extremly quick (sbout 8 seconds ) but when i checked combat logs i only did 1600 damage and she had a full health bar, we coudlnt work it out



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EvilHomerSimpson
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:22 pm
#4

Valor increases saber block which makes you miss more. That's what you are missing. Plus with mods my def is over 300+ w/o Aura.



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Haywood
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:22 pm
#5






Akast wrote:
well u got to factor in did he have vergspine thats another 10-0 def adn also block, i would bet a lot of them shots are blocks not misses, i killed an mdef today extremly quick (sbout 8 seconds ) but when i checked combat logs i only did 1600 damage and she had a full health bar, we coudlnt work it out





No this was just a simple test, he used his skill tapes and accuracy food, valor and aura. I used skill tapes, accuracy food, ranged defense food (bug still not fixed) and duelist stance. I also changed the title




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00101000000010010110000111011000001101110000110101 COL Haywood'
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Akast
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:23 pm
#6


you cahnged your title so ill change my response.


the reason duelist dosent work to well against jedi is, there min-max damage is very close same with cob for melle, but if a ranged hits somone with cob it works fine as does duelist stance, as ranged wepons have a massive diffrence from min-max.


any ranged defnse foods work fine you just have to unequip and re equip your weapon


simple thers your question answered


Message Edited by Akast on 10-05-2005 03:24 AM



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Haywood
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:27 pm
#7






EvilHomerSimpson wrote:

Valor increases saber block which makes you miss more. That's what you are missing. Plus with mods my def is over 300+ w/o Aura.






I just posted below but his defense is 240 normal. My big question is the ratio.


340 accuracy to my 633 defense and a 66% hit rate. My defense is almost twice as much as his accuracy.


Second senario. My 544 accuracy to his 740 defense. My accuracy is significantly higher than his in both number and in the ratio to accuracy vs defense and I only hit 33% of the time. I do not think that valor adds 33% to block.






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00111010000011000011000110101111010011010110111000
00101000000010010110000111011000001101110000110101 COL Haywood'
11010011000100010110011101001000001000001110110111 Master Bounty Hunter
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10100010100001110000101111101110010010100000000111



Tamianx
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:32 pm
#8






Haywood wrote:





EvilHomerSimpson wrote:

Valor increases saber block which makes you miss more. That's what you are missing. Plus with mods my def is over 300+ w/o Aura.






I just posted below but his defense is 240 normal. My big question is the ratio.


340 accuracy to my 633 defense and a 66% hit rate. My defense is almost twice as much as his accuracy.


Second senario. My 544 accuracy to his 740 defense. My accuracy is significantly higher than his in both number and in the ratio to accuracy vs defense and I only hit 33% of the time. I do not think that valor adds 33% to block.







They answered it above ...if you want a valid test then you need to factor out 'blocks' vs misses. Saber block, especially with Valor, will cause you not to hit a fair amount.
Spartan-17
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:39 pm
#9






Tamianx wrote:





Haywood wrote:





EvilHomerSimpson wrote:

Valor increases saber block which makes you miss more. That's what you are missing. Plus with mods my def is over 300+ w/o Aura.






I just posted below but his defense is 240 normal. My big question is the ratio.


340 accuracy to my 633 defense and a 66% hit rate. My defense is almost twice as much as his accuracy.


Second senario. My 544 accuracy to his 740 defense. My accuracy is significantly higher than his in both number and in the ratio to accuracy vs defense and I only hit 33% of the time. I do not think that valor adds 33% to block.







They answered it above ...if you want a valid test then you need to factor out 'blocks' vs misses. Saber block, especially with Valor, will cause you not to hit a fair amount.









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Barafu
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:41 pm
#10

A few points:

-The accuracy mod on guns doesn't actually work at the moment. Check the weaponsmith forums for confirmation of this.

-Second, the number of attacks is too small to show a statistically signficant difference between your two tests. If you don't know statistics you'll have to trust me. If you do, then I think the following is the correct analysis.

Assuming a random distribution of tohit probability (which is unlikely since there is probably some diminishing returns involved) and if I remember my statistics correctly then the 1 standard deviation spread on your first test is: 17%-50%. The second test's spread is: 54%-92%. These numbers are the reasonably likely (the 66% likely to be precise) values for the "real" expected tohit chance. So the value that the game thinks is the real expected value for test 1 is somewhere between 17% and 50% probability for the attacker to hit. The game then generates a random value (which again may not be linearly distributed) and compares that to the tohit probability. As you can see, the probability ranges for these two tests are quite close, hence my statement that is difficult to say the two tests show any statistical difference.

-Third, are you sure that you were using the same exact tohit probabilities the whole time for both test? Did your pyro run out (it has a really short duration as I'm sure you know)? Did the crispic run out? Did your duelist stance ever drop (if for instance your macro misfired)?

-Did the +100 defense from food come from vegeparsine? If so, then you should check the chef forums about vegeparsine. It doesn't really work as it should. There's a thread in this forum about the melee/ranged defenses problems.

Thanks for posting your info. I've been curious about tohit probabilities myself for a while so I welcome the information and I hope I don't come across as too critical. I just wanted to clarify the items I posted about.



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Barafu
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:44 pm
#11

Yeah, and if saber blocks are being counted as "misses" then all bets are off for getting the "real" tohit chance.



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lspiderl
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:47 pm
#12

deulist stance doesnt add to acc it adds to DEFENCE in fact it adds 250 to def but not in a standard way consider it a bonus to your armor rating so taht if u have 6 k to all defs padded armor

your armor rating would be 6250 to all defs while using deulist stance



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Akast
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:48 pm
#13

the question been addresed the topic over next



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A K A S T - B O U N T Y H U N T E R
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