Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: Remove easy ability to escape for every full temp...(not a big nerf request, just read)

JaymzRiken
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:10 pm
#1

Ok, i'm talking for full templates, no xp loss concerns...


Its becoming a 1v1 system, fine, that's cool...


here's my problem, i can fight a jedi, get them down to where everyone including the jedi knows they are going to lose...so what do they do? run...what can i do? nothing


Ok i've got a root...that holds em for a few seconds.....a KD...cool...a couple more seconds.... but unless they waited until they were dead out of force they are getting away and nothing i can do.


Here's my proposal....


Force run: if snared this should kick you back up to a NORMAL run speed....its kinda silly that i can toss the best snare in the game, and force run still lets you outrun me...i'm talking forcerun 1 here...which can be maintained basically forever...


now before you go thinking i'm singling out certain builds...


what legit template DOESN'T have this ability?


any enhancer has FR and if master has stasis....


defender alone doesn't have much other than uber defense of course which means those roots and stuff rarely hit.... but that's cool...it only becomes an escape issue when paired with other stuff


MLS? well that's got a ranged kd..again no biggie....


Powers? cloak


the problem is...


even a MLS/MDEF....a fairly common template..has enough points left that VERY VERY FEW jedi don't have at least FR1...with those defenses...nothing you can do to stop them...


I want to hunt full templates...i want a fair fight, i don't want to gank and jump...1v1, prepare yourself, spice up, food up, whatever, but do SOMETHING to make it just a tad harder to run away once the fight starts to go sour



(by the way, don't count burst run in our favor since jedi have it too, they just negate each other...)



i also took into account various templates here so let's not fire back with "BH can concussion shot, and advanced stopping shot, kneecap shot, electrolyte drain" etc etc....if you counter this post with something a bh can do, make sure they can ACTUALLY do it as one template...




-----TTF-----
- Alonzo – The Viceroy-
s Toront is my pet Jedi
sNoob Is Yous
You don't know the power of the RP DB

Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:15 pm
#2






JaymzRiken wrote:

Ok, i'm talking for full templates, no xp loss concerns...


Its becoming a 1v1 system, fine, that's cool...


here's my problem, i can fight a jedi, get them down to where everyone including the jedi knows they are going to lose...so what do they do? run...what can i do? nothing


Ok i've got a root...that holds em for a few seconds.....a KD...cool...a couple more seconds.... but unless they waited until they were dead out of force they are getting away and nothing i can do.


Here's my proposal....


Force run: if snared this should kick you back up to a NORMAL run speed....its kinda silly that i can toss the best snare in the game, and force run still lets you outrun me...i'm talking forcerun 1 here...which can be maintained basically forever...


now before you go thinking i'm singling out certain builds...


what legit template DOESN'T have this ability? [Mine doesn't. MPowers/MDef/Heal3000/Enh0002 I felt healing and force regen were more important than force run.]


any enhancer has FR and if master has stasis....


defender alone doesn't have much other than uber defense of course which means those roots and stuff rarely hit.... but that's cool...it only becomes an escape issue when paired with other stuff


MLS? well that's got a ranged kd..again no biggie....


Powers? cloak


the problem is...


even a MLS/MDEF....a fairly common template..has enough points left that VERY VERY FEW jedi don't have at least FR1...with those defenses...nothing you can do to stop them...[A MLS/MDef who takes FR1 has gimped themselves in either healing or force regen.]


I want to hunt full templates...i want a fair fight, i don't want to gank and jump...1v1, prepare yourself, spice up, food up, whatever, but do SOMETHING to make it just a tad harder to run away once the fight starts to go sour



(by the way, don't count burst run in our favor since jedi have it too, they just negate each other...)



i also took into account various templates here so let's not fire back with "BH can concussion shot, and advanced stopping shot, kneecap shot, electrolyte drain" etc etc....if you counter this post with something a bh can do, make sure they can ACTUALLY do it as one template...









Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
JaymzRiken
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:18 pm
#3

most on my server are caring less about force regen and sacking it to get FR



/shrug



but your template has cloak..one of the thing si mentioned...so your template fits the bill of "cannot be killed if he doesn't stand and fight"



my problem is, if its gonna be 1v1, which i'm fine with, there's gotta be SOMETHING that makes the jedi stand and fight and not bolt at the last minute...



i think giving a move at MBH that's either a really good snare, or mez..or SOMETHING would be helpful...i mean i'm not looking for some new uber move or anything..i'm not looking to nerf your abilities..i just want me to have a chance of killing someone who doesn't care about "pride" or "honor" which are the only thigns that make a jedi stand and fight a bh







-----TTF-----
- Alonzo – The Viceroy-
s Toront is my pet Jedi
sNoob Is Yous
You don't know the power of the RP DB

EvilAztec
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:19 pm
#4






JaymzRiken wrote:

Ok, i'm talking for full templates, no xp loss concerns...


Its becoming a 1v1 system, fine, that's cool...


here's my problem, i can fight a jedi, get them down to where everyone including the jedi knows they are going to lose...so what do they do? run...what can i do? nothing


So any other temp should be able to run, just not your content.


Ok i've got a root...that holds em for a few seconds.....a KD...cool...a couple more seconds.... but unless they waited until they were dead out of force they are getting away and nothing i can do.


Not really, if you root, kd, and snare along w/ BR the FR1 people will never get away.


Here's my proposal....


Force run: if snared this should kick you back up to a NORMAL run speed....its kinda silly that i can toss the best snare in the game, and force run still lets you outrun me...i'm talking forcerun 1 here...which can be maintained basically forever...


now before you go thinking i'm singling out certain builds...


what legit template DOESN'T have this ability?


Actually for MLS/MD they throw the points into healing. They might have FR1 but, they spent the points. Now if you want to give up skills that you spent points on in PvP fine. Let's take away critical shot and plant you in place so you can't kite.


any enhancer has FR and if master has stasis....


defender alone doesn't have much other than uber defense of course which means those roots and stuff rarely hit.... but that's cool...it only becomes an escape issue when paired with other stuff


MLS? well that's got a ranged kd..again no biggie....


Yeah because you can kite at 40m and never have to worry.


Powers? cloak


the problem is...


even a MLS/MDEF....a fairly common template..has enough points left that VERY VERY FEW jedi don't have at least FR1...with those defenses...nothing you can do to stop them...


I want to hunt full templates...i want a fair fight, i don't want to gank and jump...1v1, prepare yourself, spice up, food up, whatever, but do SOMETHING to make it just a tad harder to run away once the fight starts to go sour



(by the way, don't count burst run in our favor since jedi have it too, they just negate each other...)


Yep and because it negates, the ranged kiter class wins.



i also took into account various templates here so let's not fire back with "BH can concussion shot, and advanced stopping shot, kneecap shot, electrolyte drain" etc etc....if you counter this post with something a bh can do, make sure they can ACTUALLY do it as one template...


Considering it only takes medic 0020 to get 1000+ pt heals... use your imagination.









Did you know
SOE has changed this game 3 times
Jedi went from being an Icon to a normal profession
The combat system is being reduced to Enemy Territory online
"If I wanted to play a FPS I'd launch CS 1.6"
uberchief
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:21 pm
#5

if your full temp you dont care xp loss you stay and fight its your call..but some of them dont always have the time or motivation to defend themselves if there out hunting with friends or going to...i dont think a move to froce people to stay and fight would help...dont want them to run...root....snare...dont want em to cloak...stay closer its just a matter of tactics



Hi'tu Hele / Ogeac Kiemia
Life's a bish, Punch it in the head..
JaymzRiken
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:25 pm
#6






EvilAztec wrote:





JaymzRiken wrote:

Ok, i'm talking for full templates, no xp loss concerns...


Its becoming a 1v1 system, fine, that's cool...


here's my problem, i can fight a jedi, get them down to where everyone including the jedi knows they are going to lose...so what do they do? run...what can i do? nothing


So any other temp should be able to run, just not your content. Yes that's exactly what I said, go exploit the LOS bug some more


Ok i've got a root...that holds em for a few seconds.....a KD...cool...a couple more seconds.... but unless they waited until they were dead out of force they are getting away and nothing i can do.


Not really, if you root, kd, and snare along w/ BR the FR1 people will never get away. No, wrong, incorrect, you are wrong. Wrong, and furthermore, wrong.


Here's my proposal....


Force run: if snared this should kick you back up to a NORMAL run speed....its kinda silly that i can toss the best snare in the game, and force run still lets you outrun me...i'm talking forcerun 1 here...which can be maintained basically forever...


now before you go thinking i'm singling out certain builds...


what legit template DOESN'T have this ability?


Actually for MLS/MD they throw the points into healing. They might have FR1 but, they spent the points. Now if you want to give up skills that you spent points on in PvP fine. Let's take away critical shot and plant you in place so you can't kite. My best friend, MLS/MDEF, has enough healer to heal himself plenty and has FR1. I didn't say "hey let's take away power strike" did i? Again, flawed point, but hey you didn't spend your points in "logic" obviously


any enhancer has FR and if master has stasis....


defender alone doesn't have much other than uber defense of course which means those roots and stuff rarely hit.... but that's cool...it only becomes an escape issue when paired with other stuff


MLS? well that's got a ranged kd..again no biggie....


Yeah because you can kite at 40m and never have to worry. My range is 35, same as saber throw and same as powers....no jedi can't hit from that range (no legit jedi template is without sabers or powers)


Powers? cloak


the problem is...


even a MLS/MDEF....a fairly common template..has enough points left that VERY VERY FEW jedi don't have at least FR1...with those defenses...nothing you can do to stop them...


I want to hunt full templates...i want a fair fight, i don't want to gank and jump...1v1, prepare yourself, spice up, food up, whatever, but do SOMETHING to make it just a tad harder to run away once the fight starts to go sour



(by the way, don't count burst run in our favor since jedi have it too, they just negate each other...)


Yep and because it negates, the ranged kiter class wins. No, i get movement hindrince for anything other than a pistol (still get some but very small) Plus burst run doesn't last long enough to even put the slightest worry into a running jedi



i also took into account various templates here so let's not fire back with "BH can concussion shot, and advanced stopping shot, kneecap shot, electrolyte drain" etc etc....if you counter this post with something a bh can do, make sure they can ACTUALLY do it as one template...


Considering it only takes medic 0020 to get 1000+ pt heals... use your imagination. Once every 5 seconds... gee kinda like 2 points of healer gives the same huh? wow...only yours doesn't require healing efficient tapes like the example you give does. Nice try, again...drop Force Flaming 2 and pick up Logic 1, might help you post on the forums















-----TTF-----
- Alonzo – The Viceroy-
s Toront is my pet Jedi
sNoob Is Yous
You don't know the power of the RP DB

Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:29 pm
#7






JaymzRiken wrote:






EvilAztec wrote:





JaymzRiken wrote:

*snip*


MLS? well that's got a ranged kd..again no biggie....


Yeah because you can kite at 40m and never have to worry. My range is 35, same as saber throw and same as powers....no jedi can't hit from that range (no legit jedi template is without sabers or powers)[Powers and Saber throw range is 32m.]


Powers? cloak


the problem is...


even a MLS/MDEF....a fairly common template..has enough points left that VERY VERY FEW jedi don't have at least FR1...with those defenses...nothing you can do to stop them...


I want to hunt full templates...i want a fair fight, i don't want to gank and jump...1v1, prepare yourself, spice up, food up, whatever, but do SOMETHING to make it just a tad harder to run away once the fight starts to go sour



(by the way, don't count burst run in our favor since jedi have it too, they just negate each other...)


Yep and because it negates, the ranged kiter class wins. No, i get movement hindrince for anything other than a pistol (still get some but very small) Plus burst run doesn't last long enough to even put the slightest worry into a running jedi



i also took into account various templates here so let's not fire back with "BH can concussion shot, and advanced stopping shot, kneecap shot, electrolyte drain" etc etc....if you counter this post with something a bh can do, make sure they can ACTUALLY do it as one template...


Considering it only takes medic 0020 to get 1000+ pt heals... use your imagination. Once every 5 seconds... gee kinda like 2 points of healer gives the same huh? wow...only yours doesn't require healing efficient tapes like the example you give does. Nice try, again...drop Force Flaming 2 and pick up Logic 1, might help you post on the forums[1000 pt heals every 5 seconds. medic 0220 will give you two heals, on separate timers that work nicely together. The healing potential explodes as soon as you pack on HE mods. Jedi have one timer for all their heals and it's 6 seconds.]




















Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
AltharXXX
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:32 pm
#8

Okay, first as a BH - please think about this for a minute. Running away is perfectly acceptable. Maybe the jedi doesn't want to spend 20 minutes or 2 hours to beat you. It's not like the ability to flee comes from a power either. There are food items which allow you to run. While most people think it's lame for a jedi to escape on a ship - I think that's about the most starwarsy thing there is in the PVP dynamic - I only wish the ships would be in a landing bay and they have to move to the ship itself... :-[


Also there are pleanty of times BH run. Normally a BH has a lot to loose from a death by jedi. [investment of time and energy, food, drugs, vehicles, droids, ARMOR CONDITION, medical bills, insurance costs....] So, are you saying that BH should retain abilities which make escape possibleor easier but jedi should loose them? (these skills aren't in a master box either.)


-


Jedi make a lot of claims about force cloak. My experience is it works exactly as described. With a force pool of about 2600 (before 1st master), a jedi can cloak for like 100 force cost. The on going cost is virtually ZERO if no one is within 20m of the jedi. (I regained force to full with no one near.) Jedi can usally pull off force cloak if they can burst or force run - even when being followed by someone with superior speed. (I followed a jedi who was on foot with my speeder - the guy couldn't outrun me with his fastest force run. he stopped hit force run and moved away - cloak went up at 17m on my range indicator... I'd say it was lag that allowed him to 'cloak'.) Force cloak is the bomb, and we should all expect it to get changed to be a little more of a fleeing/stalking tool and much less of a combat art applied repeatedly in battle.




Althar Maru, Flurry Janta Assassin
status: retired

Would you care to test out a 400 year old sword to see if it's decayed to condition 0? All the prior testers have no comment. Perhaps a gun which was used in WW I and still fires with high accuracy upto 1km?

If that doesn't get you, then start reading current military specifications for combat equipment.
JaymzRiken
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:34 pm
#9






Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:





JaymzRiken wrote:






EvilAztec wrote:





JaymzRiken wrote:

*snip*


MLS? well that's got a ranged kd..again no biggie....


Yeah because you can kite at 40m and never have to worry. My range is 35, same as saber throw and same as powers....no jedi can't hit from that range (no legit jedi template is without sabers or powers)[Powers and Saber throw range is 32m.] Fair enough...with lag factored in 3m is hardly worth mentioning....and i'm talking a low 50ms ping


Powers? cloak


the problem is...


even a MLS/MDEF....a fairly common template..has enough points left that VERY VERY FEW jedi don't have at least FR1...with those defenses...nothing you can do to stop them...


I want to hunt full templates...i want a fair fight, i don't want to gank and jump...1v1, prepare yourself, spice up, food up, whatever, but do SOMETHING to make it just a tad harder to run away once the fight starts to go sour



(by the way, don't count burst run in our favor since jedi have it too, they just negate each other...)


Yep and because it negates, the ranged kiter class wins. No, i get movement hindrince for anything other than a pistol (still get some but very small) Plus burst run doesn't last long enough to even put the slightest worry into a running jedi



i also took into account various templates here so let's not fire back with "BH can concussion shot, and advanced stopping shot, kneecap shot, electrolyte drain" etc etc....if you counter this post with something a bh can do, make sure they can ACTUALLY do it as one template...


Considering it only takes medic 0020 to get 1000+ pt heals... use your imagination. Once every 5 seconds... gee kinda like 2 points of healer gives the same huh? wow...only yours doesn't require healing efficient tapes like the example you give does. Nice try, again...drop Force Flaming 2 and pick up Logic 1, might help you post on the forums[1000 pt heals every 5 seconds. medic 0220 will give you two heals, on separate timers that work nicely together. The healing potential explodes as soon as you pack on HE mods. Jedi have one timer for all their heals and it's 6 seconds.] Before you get ahead of yourself those numbers are WITH HE mods already. And the mind cost is huge compared to you force/mind cost of your heals. Plus one more thing...we can't heal on our backs with those heals



























-----TTF-----
- Alonzo – The Viceroy-
s Toront is my pet Jedi
sNoob Is Yous
You don't know the power of the RP DB

JaymzRiken
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:37 pm
#10






AltharXXX wrote:

Okay, first as a BH - please think about this for a minute. Running away is perfectly acceptable. Maybe the jedi doesn't want to spend 20 minutes or 2 hours to beat you. It's not like the ability to flee comes from a power either. There are food items which allow you to run. While most people think it's lame for a jedi to escape on a ship - I think that's about the most starwarsy thing there is in the PVP dynamic - I only wish the ships would be in a landing bay and they have to move to the ship itself... :-[


Also there are pleanty of times BH run. Normally a BH has a lot to loose from a death by jedi. [investment of time and energy, food, drugs, vehicles, droids, ARMOR CONDITION, medical bills, insurance costs....] So, are you saying that BH should retain abilities which make escape possibleor easier but jedi should loose them? (these skills aren't in a master box either.)


-


Jedi make a lot of claims about force cloak. My experience is it works exactly as described. With a force pool of about 2600 (before 1st master), a jedi can cloak for like 100 force cost. The on going cost is virtually ZERO if no one is within 20m of the jedi. (I regained force to full with no one near.) Jedi can usally pull off force cloak if they can burst or force run - even when being followed by someone with superior speed. (I followed a jedi who was on foot with my speeder - the guy couldn't outrun me with his fastest force run. he stopped hit force run and moved away - cloak went up at 17m on my range indicator... I'd say it was lag that allowed him to 'cloak'.) Force cloak is the bomb, and we should all expect it to get changed to be a little more of a fleeing/stalking tool and much less of a combat art applied repeatedly in battle.







If you wanna toss realism arguments....


I shoudl be able to launch into space and fight them there too, i should be able to blow down their door on their house...


leave realism out of it, it never works



I'm saying there's NOTHING the BH can do..now jedi can flame this post but it'll be you guys crying when BH are forced to wait until you are pvping or duelling someone and jump you to get you to actually die. If i was 1.5x as powerful as another class and was offered a straight up 1v1 fight, i'd be ashamed at running away, and I damn sure wouldn't be bragging about how uber i was for it.




-----TTF-----
- Alonzo – The Viceroy-
s Toront is my pet Jedi
sNoob Is Yous
You don't know the power of the RP DB

Blair_SoulEdge
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:39 pm
#11

I know whatever I say will be argued about no matter how well the statements, so I'm just going to say:


/disagree





~@---Andaris Valorum (IGN)---@~
~@---Shadowfire---@~
JaymzRiken
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:43 pm
#12

well there's a jedi's argument for ya "no reason, no support, just, NO!"



come on though, seriously, if you got intelligent counterpoints, offer em up, but if you're gonna flame like the above guy did, don't bother




-----TTF-----
- Alonzo – The Viceroy-
s Toront is my pet Jedi
sNoob Is Yous
You don't know the power of the RP DB

AltharXXX
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:54 pm
#13

realism??? HAHA.. no... I said starwarys and was suggesting balance may exist to some degree.


There is pleanty you can do to win the fight. The first thing is pick and choose the time to start the fight. If jedi running bugs you then take a template where jedi running is good for you. And keep that rifle and a root handy for when they do bolt.






Althar Maru, Flurry Janta Assassin
status: retired

Would you care to test out a 400 year old sword to see if it's decayed to condition 0? All the prior testers have no comment. Perhaps a gun which was used in WW I and still fires with high accuracy upto 1km?

If that doesn't get you, then start reading current military specifications for combat equipment.
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