Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Fire retardant post the BH vs Jedi relationship
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Cyrrex
Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:51 am
#1
First, please leave your flames at the door. Now, please continue reading and keep an open mind. This may end up being a fairly long post, depending on where my thoughts lead me.
So you know the perspective this post comes from, a little bit about myself (my toons actually).
My main: Hybrid Jedi...I do not wear robes, and I rarely have my saber equipeed in public. No flashy force animations while at Nym's, no dueling in Theed. It does not bother me a whole lot that other people do this, but it just isn't the character I want to play. I do not hate bounty hunters. I have been killed by a few, and have killed a few more. I actually look forward to the next BH encounter, because it can be a major adrenaline rush for me...much the same reason that many of you hunt Jedi in the first place. I have never talked trash to another player.
My alt: An aspiring bounty hunter. I want the loot. Under the current system, it is unlikely that I will ever hunt Jedi marks. I don't think I would have the stomach to cause someone else an xp loss, even if it is more of a psychological setback than a material one.
The question that needs to be examined first and foremost is this: Are the BHand Jedi communites content with the current relationship we have with each other? Is this level of hate really what we want? This is an honest question, and answering "yes" is perfectly acceptable. Forgetting the fact that this is a game and there are real people behind the toons we play, you could easily argue that this is how the relationship is supposed to be. Everyone is supposed to hate the Jedi.
If the answer is "no", however, then clearly the current system isn't working. The hate is so thick right now that the two sides can rarely engage in intelligent debate without it being reduced to a moronic flame-fest. Shoot, I will probably get a bunch of stupid responses to this, just because I have the nerve to post it on the BH boards. The opposite would probably also be true (a BH posting on the Jedi forums), so this isn't a stereotype directed against this profession. The animosity is such that we have reduced ourselves to knee-jerk reactions anytime the other side tries to do anything positive for good of both sides.
Then how can we fix this?
If you agree that this has all gone too far, then the only thing to do at this point is to fix the nature of the relationship between BH and Jedi. I do not think there is any perfect fix, because not matter what you, there will be idiots and griefers on both sides. These people we can do nothing about...there isn't an online game in existance that doesn't have this type of player. What we can do is find solutions for the ordinary people who have gotten themselves wrapped up in all this hate, and try to find answers for them. The followingare my ideas...please do not dismiss them without actually reading them through and giving them due consideration:
1) Remove all xp loss from Jedi. I know this is contoversial, and that most BH are against it (some Jedi may even be against it). My reasoning for the removal is thus:
- XP loss, no matter what you might imagine, does not reduce the number of Jedi. It does not make any Jedi quit. All it does is provide a small material setback, which can be regained fairly quickly. Justified or not, what it does accomplish ispi$$ing a lot of the people who experience it. Whether intentional or not from the BH side, or whether or not the Jedi deserved it, all the xp loss accomplishes is providing fuel for the hate.
- Removing xp loss would remove the griefer's from the equation. Those handful of people who hunt Jedi for the sole purpose of causing grief, or otherwise attempting to police the Jedi population, would no longer have a reason. We are all better off without this kind of player.
- Removing xp loss would make most Jedi want to fight you. The only ones that would run and hide from you would be the ones that don't want to take the time to fight you for whatever reason. That would still happen, of course, but my guess is that the percentage of marks that you actually get to fight would increase dramatically. Isn't that what most of you want?
2) Partially removed Jedi from the GCW. Let's face it, if you removed all the Jedi, there probably wouldn't be much GCWleft. Anyway, once the FRS comes, you can make Jedi choose between one or the other....or simply penalize the player for participating in both. There are many ways they could implement such a system, with the goal being to get the hard-core PvPers to play for the FRS, while letting the less powerful, less experienced Jedi partake in the GCW.
3) Keep GCW Jedi at their current level of power (fix what is broken, of course). Keep their names off the BH terminals, to reduce the possibility of ganking/griefing. Low Risk, low reward.
4) Vastly increase the power of FRS Jedi (gradually in the beginning, major towards the end). Put their names back on the terminals, and let the ganking begin. Make certain that FRS Jedi stand to lose something significantforBH deaths(whatever the FRS currency will be). The risk should be severe enough to keep the FRS system dynamic, but not so much that it sets anyone back to square one. High Risk,high reward.
5) This one I just thought of - not sure how it would be received: Re-instate the higher quality crystals and pearls....but make it such that only FRS Jedi can use them in their weapons. This ensures that the FRS Jedi are given the extra power to go with the increased risk, but also ensures that GCW Jedi are not dominating the competition too much.
6) BH Alpha class? Maybe, but make sure they can only go after the FRS Jedi.
And that is it. I know that some of this will be unpopular (on both sides), but I think it would go a long way in improving the relationship between the two. It may also bring a temporary truce in thenerf wars.
Please consider these ideas, and state your own opinion. Keep your flames to yourself though, I will ignore them.
Edit note: I wanted to also forestall the popular argument that "if you want to avoid xp loss, stay off the terms...". That doesn't really fly to be honest. I'm not sure why people use this argument, but it may be simply because they do not know one very important fact - you cannot access the more advanced content in this game without generating visibility. Not everyone wants to be perma-grinding, and it is not really fair to punish them for trying to actually play the game.
Message Edited by Cyrrex on 10-14-2005 05:10 AM
Xoreshear
Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:57 am
#2
I put this on another thread and if Jedi want to declare purePvE I say let them, with real ramifications of course:
How about this. Like a respec the Jedi can have a one time choice of going purePvE. They would not be hunted by Bounty Hunters and would lose the ability to go combatant, particularly special forces. You want PvE fine, you should also not be able to roam around in groups PKing either. The Jedi that selects this option could still duel although I might restrict that as well.
Cyrrex
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:08 am
#3
Personally, I think it would suck being a PvE only Jedi, but the idea has some validity. The only problem I can think of is this: what if that person changes his/her mind? Ithink many players, myself included, start off only being interested in PvE and eventually start getting interested in PvP. You would have to make the system flexible enough to allow a changeover, while not being exploitable.
Xoreshear wrote:
I put this on another thread and if Jedi want to declare purePvE I say let them, with real ramifications of course:
How about this. Like a respec the Jedi can have a one time choice of going purePvE. They would not be hunted by Bounty Hunters and would lose the ability to go combatant, particularly special forces. You want PvE fine, you should also not be able to roam around in groups PKing either. The Jedi that selects this option could still duel although I might restrict that as well.
XXCambriaXX
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:09 am
#4
So..your saying .. when you grind you dont want hunted and when your Full template you switch to PvP..?
Sounds like a whine to me
Cyrrex
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:14 am
#5
XXCambriaXX wrote:
So..your saying .. when you grind you dont want hunted and when your Full template you switch to PvP..?
Sounds like a whine to me
To which post are you replying? If it is mine, then you misunderstood.
Not at any point did I say that I did not want to be hunted...I actually stated the opposite fairly clearly.
theEwokDude
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:20 am
#6
What is with you people and the 'why can't everyone just get along?' whine?? There is absolutely no reason the two communities should sit around and bake eachother gingerbread cookies. If you think that then maybe Jedi/BH/PVP or whatever you do is not for you. Try something else. This is a game and if you are actually affected in real life because of it then you are mentally unstable at best and need help. My guess is you are not wearing matching socks. Also, here is a little tip about real life. NOT EVERYONE GETS ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE. Not in this game, not at school, not at the workplace, not even good friends do. We are BHs, you are Jedi. We hunt you and each BH has their own reason. Whether it be to blow up swoops, get an adrenaline rush, cash, PVP standing, or just to delay you from being full template...these are all good reasons and NOT ONE says anything about the person so quit your cry baby pee pants act about it being 'griefing'. There is no reason you should come here and start telling everyone to get along. Heck, one day you will grow up and realize competition is good. There should be some friction to keep things interesting. I am sure your long term vision of SWG is without combat skills and armor, we would all just roll down hills of grass and daisys naked as the day we were born while laughing and eating sugar plums... bottom line is that the way the community is now is fine. If you have some sick twisted love e-interest between communities that is your deal. I'd rather have the competitive nature of the way things are now thank you.
JediAsh
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:29 am
#7
theEwokDude wrote:
What is with you people and the 'why can't everyone just get along?' whine?? There is absolutely no reason the two communities should sit around and bake eachother gingerbread cookies. If you think that then maybe Jedi/BH/PVP or whatever you do is not for you. Try something else. This is a game and if you are actually affected in real life because of it then you are mentally unstable at best and need help. My guess is you are not wearing matching socks. Also, here is a little tip about real life. NOT EVERYONE GETS ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE. Not in this game, not at school, not at the workplace, not even good friends do. We are BHs, you are Jedi. We hunt you and each BH has their own reason. Whether it be to blow up swoops, get an adrenaline rush, cash, PVP standing, or just to delay you from being full template...these are all good reasons and NOT ONE says anything about the person so quit your cry baby pee pants act about it being 'griefing'. There is no reason you should come here and start telling everyone to get along. Heck, one day you will grow up and realize competition is good. There should be some friction to keep things interesting. I am sure your long term vision of SWG is without combat skills and armor, we would all just roll down hills of grass and daisys naked as the day we were born while laughing and eating sugar plums... bottom line is that the way the community is now is fine. If you have some sick twisted love e-interest between communities that is your deal. I'd rather have the competitive nature of the way things are now thank you.
You just read the title and hit reply didnt you?
Cyrrex
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:37 am
#8
JediAsh wrote:
theEwokDude wrote:
What is with you people and the 'why can't everyone just get along?' whine?? There is absolutely no reason the two communities should sit around and bake eachother gingerbread cookies. If you think that then maybe Jedi/BH/PVP or whatever you do is not for you. Try something else. This is a game and if you are actually affected in real life because of it then you are mentally unstable at best and need help. My guess is you are not wearing matching socks. Also, here is a little tip about real life. NOT EVERYONE GETS ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE. Not in this game, not at school, not at the workplace, not even good friends do. We are BHs, you are Jedi. We hunt you and each BH has their own reason. Whether it be to blow up swoops, get an adrenaline rush, cash, PVP standing, or just to delay you from being full template...these are all good reasons and NOT ONE says anything about the person so quit your cry baby pee pants act about it being 'griefing'. There is no reason you should come here and start telling everyone to get along. Heck, one day you will grow up and realize competition is good. There should be some friction to keep things interesting. I am sure your long term vision of SWG is without combat skills and armor, we would all just roll down hills of grass and daisys naked as the day we were born while laughing and eating sugar plums... bottom line is that the way the community is now is fine. If you have some sick twisted love e-interest between communities that is your deal. I'd rather have the competitive nature of the way things are now thank you.
You just read the title and hit reply didnt you?
haha, obviously he did, thereby putting himself squarely where I expected a certain portion of the replies to go. He will have to actually read the post to figure that out.
What he might have missed is the part where I said that such a point of view was perfectly acceptable. My assumption while writing this post is that most people are not like this person, and actually would prefer to get along because, as he states himself, it is just a game.
Digitalalchemyzt
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:38 am
#9
im sorry..but i like the hate between us. i dont want a loving carebear environment. i can deal with name calling as it motivates me to kill my opponent faster and more efficient. but i dont
like the whine. its weak. and jedi and bhs alike are supposed to be powerful killers. not powerful whiners. and nerf this vs that? a true killer will find a way to best dispose of his opponent.
i like it. post cu jedi here ex bh.
Cyrrex
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:42 am
#10
Digitalalchemyzt wrote:
im sorry..but i like the hate between us. i dont want a loving carebear environment. i can deal with name calling as it motivates me to kill my opponent faster and more efficient. but i dont
like the whine. its weak. and jedi and bhs alike are supposed to be powerful killers. not powerful whiners. and nerf this vs that? a true killer will find a way to best dispose of his opponent.
i like it. post cu jedi here ex bh.
Proof positive that it is possible to disagree in a mature fashion. Thanks for the input.
I agree with you to a point...the problem I have is that I believe that the hate simply leads to the next nerf. Also, the hate bleeds over onto people who want no part of it and have done nothing to earn it.
Cyrrex
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:46 am
#11
Another thing I forgot to post - remove the xp loss, and open up hunting in space. I think you would have to remove the first strike capability (because first strike is huge in space, and because it is twitch based), but otherwise let em rip.
theEwokDude
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:46 am
#12
My assumption while writing this post is that most people are not like this person, and actually would prefer to get along because, as he states himself, it is just a game.
Exactly, you assumed (you know what they say about assumptions) everyone wanted to hold hands and emote eachother ingame. You are wrong. People enjoy competition and the friction between the two communities. If I wanted to get along with everyone I would do it at work or do some volunteer work. Anything outside in the real world where it matters. You preaching on the Internet for everyone to get along is pathetic. One day you will grow up and learn to either play by the rules or don't play at all. Just like this game. Don't like the rules, then leave. Can't stand people not getting along? Then leave. Otherwise, roll up a chef and try to bring the communities together with some food.
Keppisuutari
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:49 am
#13
For my own part, if the xp-loss went away, my hate towards bounty hunters would go away. I would fight them more often too. Simple solution.
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