Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Fire retardant post the BH vs Jedi relationship
you just read the title and hit reply didn’t you?
sorry I found that funny
Anyway, I do I agree with original poster for the most part..
It’s just too bad that a few bad apples would rather spark up the flamethrowers, then to actually add something constructive.
The pass week or two there have been some great suggestion made as of late... I can't help but think that there is a strong movement to build a better relationship in the community as a whole, which it nice to see...
Let just hope that the dev reads the posts and come up with a method that will please both sides.
theEwokDude wrote:
My assumption while writing this post is that most people are not like this person, and actually would prefer to get along because, as he states himself, it is just a game.
Exactly, you assumed (you know what they say about assumptions) everyone wanted to hold hands and emote eachother ingame. You are wrong. People enjoy competition and the friction between the two communities. If I wanted to get along with everyone I would do it at work or do some volunteer work. Anything outside in the real world where it matters. You preaching on the Internet for everyone to get along is pathetic. One day you will grow up and learn to either play by the rules or don't play at all. Just like this game. Don't like the rules, then leave. Can't stand people not getting along? Then leave. Otherwise, roll up a chef and try to bring the communities together with some food.
I'm not getting into a flame-fest with you. I will only re-state a couple of points in the event that you did not read the post, or that you skipped over.
- There is nothing wrong with the competition.
- I have already allowed for the fact that there are people who think that the level of "hate" is fine. You are apparently one of them...so much so that you seem to be unable to hold it in. If you look at Digitalalchemyzt's response, you will notice it is possible to have this point of view without trying to start a flame fest.
- Yes, I assume that most people do not share your point of view....but part of the reason for this post is to find that out. I will put you in the "nay" column.
Cadeyrn wrote:
If I'm not mistaken XP loss was introduced as a penalty so the system wouldn't be exploited to earn credits. Even though it might be harder to get a specific Jedi's mission now, it still is a valid reason for the penalty. I can already see Jedi with their BH friends standing next to a BH terminal to earn some easy cash. As long as there's something to be gained from a dead Jedi there has to be a penalty. Period.
Whether or not that is the reason they instituted the xp loss, your concern is valid.
But surely there has to be a better way to prevent such an exploit....many of which have been suggested in the past.
I didn't want to get too much into the mechanics. This is all speculative anyway.
The bigger question is still whether or not you think they should do SOMETHING, or if you think things are fine the way they are.
I hate to say it, but I DO think the system is fine the way it is now. I'm currently a BH but working on my Jedi and I know that once I pick up that Padawan I'm gonna be fair game for everyone else in this forum. Unfortunately, the people who make the most problems by acting like @#%holes are going to act that way no matter what you do. It may be better for the Jedi to not lose the xp, but then the jerks in the game will just figure out someway to make sure they can track an individual Jedi and kill him/her over and over and over, just to be an a$$. If your immature, you will find a way to be a jerk, no matter what.
That goes for Jedi also, by the way. If they are the kind of player who already doesn't care about visibility, they are going to go dancing all over the place with their saber drawn out spamming " I'm a Jedi! I'm a Jedi! I'm a Jedi!" all day long.
I think your ideas are good in theory, and I completely agree that the " Get that Jedi crap outta my game!" and the "Stop hunting me you exploiting $$%#" arguements need to just go away. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to change human nature and those people who act like that will do so for the rest of the miserable pathetic lives.
Flame on!!
I'm beginning to think that maybe XP loss from BH deaths should be taken out of the game. The constant complaints and cries for nerfs from the Jedi boards are having a detremental affect on a lot of the other professions: squad leader, combat medic, smuggler, rifleman etc.
Each time another profession gets any kind of attention the immediate reaction form the Jedi is "How does this affect me?" and if there is any detremental effect there is a massive out cry which as we have seen numerous times leads to nerfs.
IMO the only way to solve this is to reduce full template padawans power down to roughly the same as a regular lvl80 character but with no XP loss on the way to padawan from BH deaths. The FRS should be reintroduced but with severe risk.
All Jedi in the FRS should be attackable by all other FRS opposite faction Jedi on sight as well as by BH from BH missions. 3 deaths within a certain amount of time and your toon would lose all FS/Jedi skills. The FRS Jedi should be a lot more powerful than regular toons, but will have their names on the terminals and multiple BH can take the missions.A high ranking FRS jedi should be impossible for a regular toon to take down. Premium and flawless perarls crystals should be intrdiced back into the game but only for FRS jedi. there should only be so many places for each rank of the FRS say 5 masters, 20 guardians etc.
padawan jedi would also be attackable by FRS jedi if they are within say 35m of one with robes or saber equiped
I think this would take a lot of the BH vs Jedi hate away and turn it from light jedi vs dark jedi. the jedi woud be their own population control
Malachi_Monson wrote:
Uhm, the only problem with that idea is the losing ALL Jedi powers and FS powers. I understand the need for a penalty to Jedi, which is why I said it should not change from what we had now. But the kind of penalty your talking about means literally a year of gameplay erased. In some of our cases, more like 2-3 years. It isn't whining when I say that I think that is overkill. Maybe a week long penalty where you are unable to USE those powers, so you become a weakling again while your body recovers it's link to the Force, something like that. But to permenantly lose all the skills that take you a year to gain is just ridiculous. That's why they got rid of permadeath. I think so anyway.
Maybe a bit harsh
I think that becoming a FRS Jedi should be risky. Currently there is no rsik in becoming a Jedi, just the annoyance of losing a couple of hours gametime from BH XP loss. Sure it can take a while, but it's pretty easy these days, with spin groups and what not.
If you are warned that you are atrisk of being severed from the force and losing your FS skills then no-one can complain if it happens in the FRS. It's a gamble and you have to be prepared to risk all if you want to become a powerful Jedi. If you want to stay full temp paddy that's ok, you get the saber, robesand some cool moves, but if there is to be an end game, you want to be the most powerful profession in the game then you gotta really put it on the line.
Currently full temp paddys have nothing to do and nothing to lose really, most of the ones i know are sat around bored. if you reintroduce the FRS with no risk in a few months you'll just have a load of jedi masters all sat around bored with nothing to do. At least with some risk it'll never be boring, you'd have to be on your toes all the time with jedi hunting each other. the risk factor would stop the fighclubbers too.
I remember being in awe of Jedi masters when I first started seeing them cut through 5 BH without breaking a sweat, it was a real experience just to see one and people would stop and watch when one went past. i'd love to feel that way again. The jedi ranks need thinning out IMO and the best way to do it is for them to do it themselves light vs dark
Message Edited by Smuggly1 on 10-14-2005 09:04 AM
Actually, I think that the best way to remove the Jedi vs BH hate is to remove the PvP portion of it altogether. The forced PvP is what I see as the real fuel for the hate here. The exp loss in the current system as it is now I think needs to stay, otherwise, as stated earlier, it opens a loophole to abuse of the system, basically Jedi having their BH alts, or BH friends kill them to farm credits. And, lets face it, as a part of human nature, if it can be exploited it will be. And there will always be those people who will use the system to grief on both sides, not everyone, but the few will always tarnish the reputation of the entire group.
My suggestions (incorporating a lot from others as well), and I have posted them here and elsewhere before is to alter the system so that NPCs do the hunting of Jedi and BH can pull NPC Jedi marks.
In more detail:
For Jedi: As a Jedi gains visibility, they have the chance to be hunted by BH NPC characters, similar to the attack of the Sith for the village entry quest, I guarantee none of us saw them coming! The NPC BH would be level appropriate to the Jedi, thus Padawan Jedi would be hunted if visible but by level appropriate NPCs.Full templates would have lvl appropriate NPC BHs and the chance of drawing 2 BH NPCs at one time, and in the case of increased or high Visibility, an opposite faction Jedi Assassin (CL + 2-4). With the introduction of the specials for NPCs coming I think this could be challenging.
The Reward: If a Jedi kills his BH attacker, is whatever loot the BH could drop, I believe in tying this into the current BH mark loot system, meaning the chance for CAs and crystals, and of course tasty Jars of bugs, and in the rare cases a premium crystal. And loses an amout of visibility.
The Penalty: A reduction in Force capability (regen rate or power) for a set amount of time, say 1-2 days. Nothing prohibative or crippling, but enough to notice a difference, a general weakening of their abilities. And a slight increase in visibility.
For BH: BH can still pull Jedi marks at MBH level, actually you could task Jedi marks to all levels of investigation in this system. The NPC Jedi would be lvl appropriate for the BH that pulled the mission and use template appropriate Jedi skills.
The Reward: A BH that kills their Jedi mark gets the loot the Jedi was carrying, same as the loot system we have now, hey I like bugs what can I say. They would also get a notoriety factor such that their next Jedi mark may be stronger (I would give no notification of this in the mission though), until they have killed so mnay Jedi that they have the chance for pulling a Master NPC Jedi.
The Penalty: A credit debt, similar idea to what has been posted before (sorry to those who had these ideas and I'm not giving proper credit). The BH would need to pull missions and complete them to 'work-off' the debt, in doing so would gain no loot or credits from these missions. Allownormal hunting missions to also count toward this 'debt'....creds are creds afterall.
This leaves those who enjoy the competitive nature of PvP (as I do)to seek like-minded individuals, as it should be. Removes the harassing abilities on both sides, since NPCs rarely care how much trash I talk to them, whetherI'm role-playing or having a bad day. Anything thatincreases the level of hate between players, regardless of their style of play or the characters they play, erodes the player community in general IMO and this is the factor that leads to the constant nerfing I believe.
Just my thoughts.
Cyrrex wrote:
The animosity is such that we have reduced ourselves to knee-jerk reactions anytime the other side tries to do anything positive for good of both sides.
Message Edited by Cyrrex on 10-14-2005 05:10 AM
True...and so what. Its a game, BH are supposed to be dreaded by Jedi. Its good for the game and its one of the few things that keep this game entertaining. If Jedi don't want to PvP, then go play EQ2. I am hunted on my Jedi, I knew I would be hunted, I was killed many times...further....I was killed with some very nasty old bugs in the old system. Did I stop grinding my Jedi...NO, did it make it seem like more of an accomplishment at the end YES! I gaurentee you there are other Jedi out there that would agree the BHs attacks add to the pride in having Jedi. These guys that are getting hunted are not going to stopgrinding thier Jedi's due to BH animosity.
I bet you could count the number of people in game on1 hand that say: " I am not bothering with Jedi. I just can't deal with all that BH hate."lol
This is a non-problem. If anything level of hate between Jedi and BH is not GREAT enough.
Let the DEV's decide whats knee jerk and what has value. They will anyway ...no matter what input we give.