Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Using Force Powers While Cloaked...
Barb-Wire
Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:02 am
#105
why?? so people can bypass the REASON that powers has no defense?? the dev who laid out the powers trees obviously had no clue how pvp actually works and how powerful a first strike ability is or it would NEVER have been misplaced in box 4. breach is fine the way it is and should be in box 4 with cloak in master.
FernGully
Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:11 am
#106
BradPete wrote:
FernGully wrote:
BradPete wrote:
I only think that cloak needs to be changed somehow to stop people from running around 24/7 cloaked because they can just use meditate while theyre cloaked. I think that is some bull. Make it so when you're cloaked you can't use ANYTHING else, I mean come on you're invisible you can't see what you're doing. I think cloak is a really cool power and would hate to see it taken out of the game completely. I would just like to see it used for more short-term tactical purposes, rather than non-stop un-attackable PvP where you don't have a big chance of dying.
You CANNOT meditate while cloaked. You can meditate, THEN cloak, but then you wouldn't be running around.
What's "some bull" about being able to cloak a lot versus a little? Whta difference does it make?
Because you can run around invisible ALL THE TIME. That's like having avoid incap, with no snare on it, that last indefiniately. I know, I know you can't attack while cloaked. I just think cloak is a little out of balance and there is no doubt in my mind that the devs will counter it. Do you really think being able to run around anywhere with no chance of death of all the time is NOT out of balance? Maybe make it so any non-grouped member that runs within 5m of you while cloaked will make you lose cloak.
So, whats wrong with being invisible all the time? Its not at all like having avoid incap lasting indefinitely, since I can't use it to solo DJMs with cloak.
Why do you think its out of balance? What unfair advantage does it give me? Do you think Force Run gives Enhancers an unfair advantage?
FernGully
Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:16 am
#107
Barb-Wire wrote:why?? so people can bypass the REASON that powers has no defense?? the dev who laid out the powers trees obviously had no clue how pvp actually works and how powerful a first strike ability is or it would NEVER have been misplaced in box 4. breach is fine the way it is and should be in box 4 with cloak in master.
Honestly, Barb, I'm MFW, and it won't matter much to me whether its in Novice or Master or stays where it is. Long as it isn't removed, it'll stay in my temp.
But this is a slippery slope. Powers is already the least desireable tree for dabbling, with the skills being so borked in area of effect agreement and the force accuracy mod being spread over the whole tree. Cloak is pretty much the ONLY thing people ever dabble in Powers to get. If we're trying to limit dabbling and put the truely valueable skills in master boxes, Powers is probably the least guilty of the 5 trees when it comes to having very valueable skills available to non-masters.
MrGouda
Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:20 am
#108
Thanks for all this useful discussion. Prior to now I've won one and lost one against full template cloakers in the last two days. Having the loss happen yesterday after I had him twice (then he cloaked and recovered), I was still sore as I started reading this.
Since reading and filtering through all the BS from both sides (and not being a Jedi Forum troll), I've learned that I now have options against cloakers where I didn't know they existed. Stay within 20m and use other NPC's and myself to counteract this ability. IfNPC's don't exist, perhaps then is not the right time to strike.
Thank you! That should come in handy. Also, I cannot afford to let my snare ever wear off. If they're not hammering me with offense, I could be against a cloaker (or paddie since we don't know anymore prior to the kill). I must alter my strategy mid conflict or upon the first cloak/regen.
I can do that. Now that this is out, I'd recommend you utilize your skeedatle FSRun and high-tail it out of there. Running us underrated and should be applauded by BH's. It's legit and an excellent tactic -- and like cloak, has a counter.
Elisar
Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:41 am
#109
Ewockman wrote:
So your a BH thats about to go Jedi? Whats that in game name again? I'd sure like to remember you.
Although I don't think it needs a nerf, I believe it needs to be moved into Master Powers box.
Being a BH for the longest time and having cloak used like this against me I thought it was crap, but now I'm starting down the path of jedi, I still think it's crap.
It is too accesable and should be moved, it's too good to be out of the Master box.
Master Defender has AI in the MASTER box, as Powers versoin of AI...Cloak, should be moved to the MASTER box.
creativeanalyst
Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:14 am
#110
Force Cloak does not need to be nerfed. Only being able to usi it away from all signs of civilization is restrictive enough. However, what you have described is indeed an exploit. A Force Powers user cloaks, and then using his own ship, travels to another location. After traveling, his force run trail is now invisible, and his cloak does not seem to be recognized by the system allowing him to attack things from a cloaked position. I agree that this needs to be fixed as it is a very unfair advantage.
The Jedi during the pvp battle was most likely using this exploit for his own gain and should be reported. It is unfair and gives all Jedi a bad name, as well as ruining the play experience for people that are playing fairly.
BloodravenII
Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:31 am
#111
People need to learn the definitions of two words:
1.) Overpower.
2.) Exploit.
If you understood what those words actually meant, 1/2 of you "cloak crybabies" would shut the hell up. As it stands, any ability that you can't use which keeps someone from dying is an "exploit" or "overpowering". Know what the hell you're talking about before making idiots of yourselves.
Bobaku
Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:56 am
#112
BradPete wrote:
I only think that cloak needs to be changed somehow to stop people from running around 24/7 cloaked because they can just use meditate while theyre cloaked. I think that is some bull. Make it so when you're cloaked you can't use ANYTHING else, I mean come on you're invisible you can't see what you're doing. I think cloak is a really cool power and would hate to see it taken out of the game completely. I would just like to see it used for more short-term tactical purposes, rather than non-stop un-attackable PvP where you don't have a big chance of dying.
Meditate sucks, use channel. =P
Jacella
Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:11 am
#113
MrGouda wrote:
Thanks for all this useful discussion. Prior to now I've won one and lost one against full template cloakers in the last two days. Having the loss happen yesterday after I had him twice (then he cloaked and recovered), I was still sore as I started reading this.
Since reading and filtering through all the BS from both sides (and not being a Jedi Forum troll), I've learned that I now have options against cloakers where I didn't know they existed. Stay within 20m and use other NPC's and myself to counteract this ability. IfNPC's don't exist, perhaps then is not the right time to strike.
Thank you! That should come in handy. Also, I cannot afford to let my snare ever wear off. If they're not hammering me with offense, I could be against a cloaker (or paddie since we don't know anymore prior to the kill). I must alter my strategy mid conflict or upon the first cloak/regen.
I can do that. Now that this is out, I'd recommend you utilize your skeedatle FSRun and high-tail it out of there. Running us underrated and should be applauded by BH's. It's legit and an excellent tactic -- and like cloak, has a counter.
And the light turns on
jimcabtv
Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:24 am
#114
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
acmtalk wrote:
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
Glingal wrote:
first of all its not an exploit, its a bug, the only way that can happen is from lag (been there done that) it cant be done over and over, its a rare thing. and i guess this is like saying dont use sniper shot while in cover, or dont shoot him while he's rooted....
Yes. It is an exploit because I know people that can reproduce this anytime they want. Maybe you should know what you are talking about before you post. A rifleman can only do a single attack while under cover. Their cover can be broken, cloak can not. Root is a completely different ability than cloak or cover so it doesn't even fit here.
I swear... it seems the Jedi profession is breeding morons. A smart Jedi will come in and leave a good reply and then he's followed by 5 idiots...
Bullshhith!! once the jedi atacks, cloak breaks, you just came with this "exploit" thing so u could get some attention...
Go back to your own Jedi boards and research this. As a matter of fact, the same Jedi that did this to me is in the post I made their admitting to it. Other Jedi know exactly how to do this anytime they want.
Thats me 
But honestly, I don't know how to reproduce this bug/exploit/whatever you want to call it. And again, like in the Jedi forums, I will say it again. Cloak needs a definite fix one way or another, or it just needs removed and force wielder needs to be boosted otherwise. Whether it's a move to the master box, or whether it's a removal alltogether, I really don't care. All these bugs/exploits that are found with the skill are currently ruining the game for other professions as well as Jedi, and I don't have much enthusiasm for that stunt.
DivNotDed
Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:01 pm
#115
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
A cloaker should not be able to use any other force powers while cloaked, especially force regen. They can stay perpetually cloaked. The other night, I was in a PvP battle where a cloaked Jedi was using an exploit to attack me while cloaked. If he were not allowed to use any powers while cloaked, this exploit wouldn't happen.
As cloak is, it is way too overpowering. I can track my bounty and as soon as I attack from range, he cloaks and is gone. The jedi then can force regen, pop a bunch of food and hit his Booster Blue... and I no longer have first strike capabilities. It was stated by the devs that what makes a BH able to be 1vs1 with a full temp Jedi is our first strike capabilities. If that is taken away from us... then what do we have?
Bottom line is(according to theSWG authority on game dynamics)... a Jedi should not be able to use force powers while cloaked.
How many 1st strikes do you want? I mean isn't the second shot you take no longer the first strike, you already took your first strike. You let the Jedi know you were there, and he/she used a Jedi Mind Trick that allows the weak minded to be spoofed into thinking the Jedi is no longer there. Then the Jedi chose to a) Take off or b) prepare for his/her turn at first strike, which if you think about it is only 2.5 minutes if you are using foods with less than that range then you might want to look at some great post's by your'e fellow BH on food consumption.
So what is so overpowering about a move when not exploited does not allow them to attack you?
lesniak
Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:30 pm
#116
"The problem is they use stasis, run out of range, then cloak and use force regen as soon as thier force gets low. They can do this as many times as they want giving them UNLIMITED FORCE. They reengage and then as soon as they get low again, they pull this stunt again. "
Uhm....its called tactics. You might want to try formulating your own. Maybe your not cut out to fight a MP ME. There are totally defensive jedi out there. If they are willing to give up their LS and any real offense just to put it all in defense and escape, then there isn't much most BH's can do to kill him. Go Find a MLS/MD that has no option but to stand there and fight.
ShaikeRamjet
Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:40 pm
#117
Nope... was a BARC... easily repairable. And to the poster 3 posts up... it was an exploit that was used in order to attack while still cloaked. Itis overpowered when it can be used as the new feign death, which if any of you can remember, was nerfed because people used it to avoid death in PVP. It made them invulnerable. I fully understand the meanings of the words "exploit" and "overpowered".