Bounty Hunter Archive

Once upon a time, Jedi was powerful and risk / reward was in place. Pre-publish 9 we had saber-tef and permadeath ( then 3 deaths / one week = skill loss ), but the rewadr was good. Then post pub-9, we were still powerful, and walked around permaovert for 11 months pvping without a single BH death.

Now Jedi is a starting profession equal to others, why would there be a risk when there's no reward ? It's just another lie by SOE to cover their own reasons. '' It was creating player vs. player hate ''my ass.

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SikrouDeco wrote:
My take is it came down to dollars and sense, people were quitting right and left, and they had to do something. LA stepped in and said "ok listen up".

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Your living in a fantasy world. All of the folks in my guild that we had left after the CU quit over the last week (since the announcement). These chanages were not done to stop the bleeding. This a port job to get this thing on toa console in the hopes of tapping into a perceived BANAZA of player dollars. We all see in a few months how they faired.

/cancel3Accounts

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Viski wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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Viski wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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Viski wrote:
Speaking of forced pvp is kind of idiotic in itself, because nobodys forced to play pvp class.

They might aswell restrict all pvp to duels in specific pvp arenas, under very strict rules, just to satisfy the roleplayers which are minority anyway.

Those who have poor pvp attitude will always have it, regardless of circumstances. "Being forced into pvp" is just an excuse for this type of people.

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Speaking about it isn't idiotic, it is the forced pvp that is/was idiotic. Why it was sooooooooooo hard to let each player decide for him/herself what game style they would prefer is beyond me. It seemed easier to the likes of you to try to impose something on others, rather than leaving it as an option for each player.

And I'm sorry if you have a poor pve attitude, you will always have it, regardless of circumstances.

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Anyone who's hunted jedi must admit its one of the most exiting forms of pvp any mmorpg has ever offered, part of that exitement coming from your enemy having reason to avoid death. Otherwise it wouldnt really be different from duelling. But I dont really consider myself as a person who likes to grief others. If I really paid 15$ a month just to do that I'm sure there would be lot more effective ways than just hunting jedi. But those who took part in "forced pvp" did it because of their own choise.

And about your pve-comment, pve mobs don't really care if you fame them do they

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First of all, just because you like pvp doesn't mean everybody else does... and I'm sorry, but a lot of full-templates felt they rpetty much had nothing to lose from a BH death, they had no plans to change their templates and they just didn't care whether they died or not (not that they wouldn't put up a fight anyway if they felt like it).

You may not have been a griefer, but many others were. And even though you keep rationalizing it, forced pvp was still forced pvp. There was no choice about if or when it happened, the choice was removed from some players, therefore making it forced pvp.

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Full templates had lot to lose for sure. Especially with the constant nerfing and changes made to jedi, no template would remain unchanged forever. At least they seemed to get quite upset about dying considering they lost nothing as you claim.

And jedi were griefing bountyhunters a lot too, I'm just saying that this happens in any game where pvp is involved. I don't see how jedi vs BH is any more forced than overt vs overt. Jedi just was the class who was constantly overt. The moment you completed padawan trials you made CHOISE to pvp. Nothing forced about that.

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Again, a full template who was happy with his template didn't have very much to worry about... if he/she didn't plant to make any changes to their template, xp meant nothing at all; otherwise, it was something relatively easy to regain with just a few hourse in a spin group. Honestly, it was just more about the annoyance than anything else.

No matter what you say, choosing to do the padawan trial did not mean that you chose to pvp. It simply meant you knew you were a possible target for attack. If and when an attack occured, you knew you'd be pushed into a forced pvp situation. These are two very different things. Any attack on a Jedi who did not want to be hunted constituted forced pvp.

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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ElvisTheKing wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

There is absolutely no reason to say that a profession was based AROUND PVP, unless a dev said otherwise (and if you have a link please post it), but even then, any combat profession lends itself to pvp, as long as the player likes pvp... yet you keep insisting that everybody should like pvp, just because you like it.

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Saber TEF. No other profession in the game could have ANYONE attack them simply by holding their weapon.

Ekibe, do me a personal favor and stop posting about this. The horse you are beating is long dead. NGE is upon us and IMO the game will soon come crashing to a halt. The changes you sought are in, regardless of the history of the game, the professions and the previous rules. Its over.

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Eawat, do *me* a personal favor and stop posting any kind of rationalization to justify why it was ok to have forced pvp in the game.

Seriously, I think you are a good person, as were the people in your guild. I seriously wonder if you realize how sad it is for me to realize that folks who could have had a lot in common and enjoyed a lot of things together in the game, were divided and became antagonists simply due to this game mechanic... which in the end has been scrapped. Do you seriously think that it was worth it to have this system, which to a large extent divided the community?

The game could have been so much better if forced pvp had just never existed... if all forms of pvp from day one had been purely consensual. Think how much upheaval we could have saved ourselves... and player bounties themselves might not have needed to be eliminated.

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The game could have been so much better if Jedi had just never existed. Look, you know my standing on the Jedi thing. You also know that my standing on Jedi is probably more pationate than that of most of NeXuS combined. You were there when I had my falling out with WRA over the matter.

Members of the WRA would ask for help and they were ignored unless of course they were a Jedi. Anytime a Jedi asked for help, the rest of the guild came running. I myself even helped the guild on at least 6 of the guild paddies Village quests. Then when I asked for help on the Chiss backpack quest, it took me 2 weeks to get help and even then 2 guildies showed up out of 70. The other people were members of another guild.

Jedi, although by nature the players weren't elitists, were an elitists profession. Jedi caused the seperation between normal professions and the alpha profession. The GCW? It wasn't Imperials versus the Rebellion, it was one guilds Jedi vs another guilds Jedi. Groups would be formed to go the DWB... and because a person wasn't a Jedi, they sat out.

The Jedi profession put the wedge between them and everyone else. I remember how a certain friend of mine, the first friend I had in the WRA, changed the day she picked up Jedi. All of a sudden, anytime I hunted a Jedi, it was a personal attack on her and all that she believed in... true story, it was said in guild chat one day.

Even now, you sit here acting the elitist. People have a difference of opinion and the way the view the game and how they think it should be played... but yet, it's called "imposing". I sit here and read post after post in this thread by you of how the game should have been and how it was supposed to be and how this one server did such and such and it was the best ever... how are you being any different right now than anyone else posting on this thread? Are you not trying to impose your ideals of how it should be on everyone else?

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Shaike, for starters, you are not even a man of your word... you said when you left the guild that even tough you were going Imperial, you wouldn't be hunting any Jedi from your former guild. And it didn't take you long to break your word and attack some of your former guildmates... one of them you attacked in the middle of a base-busting, and even though you did your best to drag Imperial NPCs towards him, he still beat you. And that was the final impression that many of your former guildmates had of you -- someone who would break his word, attack and try to kill former guildmates, someone who could not be trusted to do what he said he would do. And why was there so much anger in you? Simply because of your blind hatred of all Jedi. As someone in the guild once told you, did your mom beat you up with a Luke Skywalker blanket when you were a kid? Because that kind of blind hatred really doesn't seem to have any rational basis. Hate-hate-hate. It's bad for you, you know.

And it might come as a great surprise to you to learn that in some regards, I might even be inclined to agree that in some ways the game would have been better off without any player ever being able to become Jedi. I set out in my first profession without any thought of Jedi or even less Jedi hunting... but once they opened up Pandora's Box, there was no turning back. They made the requirements to unlock Jedi so that they favored powergamers and the wanna-be-uber crowd. It did not really dawn on me how horribly the game had changed until the day when all of a sudden, everybody and their best buddy were chasing holos and setting out on a mad dash to master professions ASAP, promptly dropping them just as soon as they'd gotten their master box.

Alas, once the decision was made to have Jedi in the game, I suppose there was no turning back, nor was there any way to stop thousands of players from seeking the fastest route to Jedi. The interest having been piqued, the only sensible thing would have been, in my opinion, to make the Jedi profession as egalitarian as possible, and not limiting it to powergamers and people who could afford to spend an almost infinite number of hours grinding upwards of 32 professions. Since there is no going back, since it would be impossible and unmarketable to have SWG without Jedi, I am glad that force-sensitive is now a starting profession that allows for leveling relatively quickly to Jedi.

And given how many people have fought each other, and even in some cases betrayed their former guildmates over the issue, I am sure glad that forced pvp and player bounties are being eliminated.

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If that is the impression you got then oh well. The only member I have fought since I left the WRA was Raspo and it was the fight you are talking about. I didn't "train" anything on him either. You were Rebels trying to take down a base, I attacked outside the base. Imperials attacked after they respawned. If you ask Raspo, there was always a fun rivalry bewteen us that started before I left the guild. He told me that I could hunt him any time and he was the only member of the WRA that I ever hunted.

Your perception of how things happen is so twisted. You are trying to twist everything to try to make your argument a better argument. You say I betrayed my old guild with a promise... and yet I never broke my peomise. Ask any Jedi in that guild and they will tell you that I have never come for them. Raspo was in fact the only one and he welcomed me and told me to hunt him every now and then. I only attacked him once. Seriously, do your research before you try to fling poo.

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I was there during and after the incident, and the general perception as far as I can remember is that you had simply broken your promise that you would not hunt your former guildmates. Nothing that you did or said would have led anyone to believe otherwise, to the best of my recollection. It was a cowardly attack and many in the guild were happy to see you killed.

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

And for the record, my hatred of Jedi stemmed from the fact that Jedi ruined PvP, GCW, and damn near everything else in the game for the simple fact that you had to be a Jedi just to compete with every other Jedi in a time frame that the game is based in that had no visible Jedi other than Luke Skywalker. You throw around insults with the Luke Skywalker blanket comment and yet you speak of mature and intelligent posts. You try to discredit me by saying I'm not a man of my word, yet you didn't even know the circumstances.

Message Edited by ShaikeRamjet on 11-07-2005 11:10 AM

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Again, that does not seem to be a very mature way to handle things. I was completely and utterly disappointed by the way that SOE implemented Jedi characters in the game. Did this make me hate or dislike anyone personally? No, not at all, because us as players had a very limited ability to impact the decisions that were made by SOE. You took your hatred and you made it into a personal vendetta against certain people in the server. We, as players, were never the ones to blame for how Jedi was implemented. Let go of your hatred or simply let it burn in your heart forever...

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

My god... pussycat, before you were ever a Jedi, the rules were in place. The game mechanics were there from the get go. Perma-death, xp loss, etc. If anything was ever imposed, it was people like you imposing the changes to take place. Jedi knew that they would be hunted, whether it was a nuisance or not to them, well before they became Jedi. No one imposed anything on you since your choice was to be a part of it by becoming a Jedi.

Get over yourself already. Jedi will no longer be hunted. We get it. But what you're not getting is the fact that BH was not some dictatorship that moved in to "impose" any playstyle on you. The playstyle was there when you decided to become a Jedi.

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The game mechanic was there, it didn't mean that the bounty hunters actually had to use it to get other players in situations that involved forced pvp. Many people sought to get a Jedi toon simply for role-playing purposes, with no interest whatsoever in being "uber" or being part of an "alpha profession".

And what you may not get is that while the game mechanic may have been there since the earliest Jedi, it was the way that it was used that led to so much animosity between players. It was very much the same with a lot of other professions and skills that were nerfed over the last 2+ years, it might not be so much the actual skill, but the feeling that when used in pvp, it led to some overpowered professions. If there had been no pvp involved, and all activities had been group activities, then nobody would have had a reason to complaint that certain profession was overpowered. By the same token, SOE initially spoke of several potential risks that would be placed upon Jedi initially, but it never implemented some of them... especifically, the one that made mention of NPC imperial agents.

I've said this before and I will say it again. There was at least one server in the game where bounty hunters did not take Jedi missions unless the Jedi consented to be hunted. It is no coincidence that this server also has, to this date the friendliest and least divided community. At least in this server, you knew that regardless of any ill-conceived game mechanic, you as a Jedi would not be hunted unless you consented to it. And it made for a much better experience, and a better community in that server.

Don't blame someone because their profession was saddled with an ill-thought game mechanic that, in turn, lent itself to sanctioned griefing in many cases... the profession would have been just fine if any potential "risk" came in the form of NPCs, unless of course the Jedi liked the idea of pvp and being hunted by other players. It would have saved all of us a lot of discussion and tensions in the game and in the forums...

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ElvisTheKing wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

There is absolutely no reason to say that a profession was based AROUND PVP, unless a dev said otherwise (and if you have a link please post it), but even then, any combat profession lends itself to pvp, as long as the player likes pvp... yet you keep insisting that everybody should like pvp, just because you like it.

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Saber TEF. No other profession in the game could have ANYONE attack them simply by holding their weapon.

Ekibe, do me a personal favor and stop posting about this. The horse you are beating is long dead. NGE is upon us and IMO the game will soon come crashing to a halt. The changes you sought are in, regardless of the history of the game, the professions and the previous rules. Its over.

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Eawat, do *me* a personal favor and stop posting any kind of rationalization to justify why it was ok to have forced pvp in the game.

Seriously, I think you are a good person, as were the people in your guild. I seriously wonder if you realize how sad it is for me to realize that folks who could have had a lot in common and enjoyed a lot of things together in the game, were divided and became antagonists simply due to this game mechanic... which in the end has been scrapped. Do you seriously think that it was worth it to have this system, which to a large extent divided the community?

The game could have been so much better if forced pvp had just never existed... if all forms of pvp from day one had been purely consensual. Think how much upheaval we could have saved ourselves... and player bounties themselves might not have needed to be eliminated.

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pussycat wrote:

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ElvisTheKing wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

There is absolutely no reason to say that a profession was based AROUND PVP, unless a dev said otherwise (and if you have a link please post it), but even then, any combat profession lends itself to pvp, as long as the player likes pvp... yet you keep insisting that everybody should like pvp, just because you like it.

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Saber TEF. No other profession in the game could have ANYONE attack them simply by holding their weapon.

Ekibe, do me a personal favor and stop posting about this. The horse you are beating is long dead. NGE is upon us and IMO the game will soon come crashing to a halt. The changes you sought are in, regardless of the history of the game, the professions and the previous rules. Its over.

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Eawat, do *me* a personal favor and stop posting any kind of rationalization to justify why it was ok to have forced pvp in the game.

Seriously, I think you are a good person, as were the people in your guild. I seriously wonder if you realize how sad it is for me to realize that folks who could have had a lot in common and enjoyed a lot of things together in the game, were divided and became antagonists simply due to this game mechanic... which in the end has been scrapped. Do you seriously think that it was worth it to have this system, which to a large extent divided the community?

The game could have been so much better if forced pvp had just never existed... if all forms of pvp from day one had been purely consensual. Think how much upheaval we could have saved ourselves... and player bounties themselves might not have needed to be eliminated.

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pussycat wrote:

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ElvisTheKing wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

There is absolutely no reason to say that a profession was based AROUND PVP, unless a dev said otherwise (and if you have a link please post it), but even then, any combat profession lends itself to pvp, as long as the player likes pvp... yet you keep insisting that everybody should like pvp, just because you like it.

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Saber TEF. No other profession in the game could have ANYONE attack them simply by holding their weapon.

Ekibe, do me a personal favor and stop posting about this. The horse you are beating is long dead. NGE is upon us and IMO the game will soon come crashing to a halt. The changes you sought are in, regardless of the history of the game, the professions and the previous rules. Its over.

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Eawat, do *me* a personal favor and stop posting any kind of rationalization to justify why it was ok to have forced pvp in the game.

Seriously, I think you are a good person, as were the people in your guild. I seriously wonder if you realize how sad it is for me to realize that folks who could have had a lot in common and enjoyed a lot of things together in the game, were divided and became antagonists simply due to this game mechanic... which in the end has been scrapped. Do you seriously think that it was worth it to have this system, which to a large extent divided the community?

The game could have been so much better if forced pvp had just never existed... if all forms of pvp from day one had been purely consensual. Think how much upheaval we could have saved ourselves... and player bounties themselves might not have needed to be eliminated.

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All I did was answer your question about Jedi being a PvP profession. Saber TEF is the best indicator of SOEs original intentions IMO.

The game could have been so much better for you if there were no jedi bounties, that I understand. However, I do not ascribe to your terminology of forced PvP, therefore the rest of your position holds no merit.

To answer your question:I think having thejedi v. BH mechanic was genius. I have expressed this countless times. The jedi v. BH mechanic brought out the most amazing gameplay, on both sides. It drove players to levels of creativity that you just do not get in PvE. You don't like PvP, thats WELL documented. But you like role-playing, and there is nothing better than RP backed up with a game mechanic that has some real consequences to it. It was electric! And please note, as you haveseen by posts of jedi that I have fought, I did not grief. So please do not lump me in with those folks.

Regardless, as I said before, it's a dead horse. You are rubbing salt in wounds now, whether you intend to or not. Let it go. Its done.

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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ElvisTheKing wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

There is absolutely no reason to say that a profession was based AROUND PVP, unless a dev said otherwise (and if you have a link please post it), but even then, any combat profession lends itself to pvp, as long as the player likes pvp... yet you keep insisting that everybody should like pvp, just because you like it.

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Saber TEF. No other profession in the game could have ANYONE attack them simply by holding their weapon.

Ekibe, do me a personal favor and stop posting about this. The horse you are beating is long dead. NGE is upon us and IMO the game will soon come crashing to a halt. The changes you sought are in, regardless of the history of the game, the professions and the previous rules. Its over.

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Eawat, do *me* a personal favor and stop posting any kind of rationalization to justify why it was ok to have forced pvp in the game.

Seriously, I think you are a good person, as were the people in your guild. I seriously wonder if you realize how sad it is for me to realize that folks who could have had a lot in common and enjoyed a lot of things together in the game, were divided and became antagonists simply due to this game mechanic... which in the end has been scrapped. Do you seriously think that it was worth it to have this system, which to a large extent divided the community?

The game could have been so much better if forced pvp had just never existed... if all forms of pvp from day one had been purely consensual. Think how much upheaval we could have saved ourselves... and player bounties themselves might not have needed to be eliminated.

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The game could have been so much better if Jedi had just never existed. Look, you know my standing on the Jedi thing. You also know that my standing on Jedi is probably more pationate than that of most of NeXuS combined. You were there when I had my falling out with WRA over the matter.

Members of the WRA would ask for help and they were ignored unless of course they were a Jedi. Anytime a Jedi asked for help, the rest of the guild came running. I myself even helped the guild on at least 6 of the guild paddies Village quests. Then when I asked for help on the Chiss backpack quest, it took me 2 weeks to get help and even then 2 guildies showed up out of 70. The other people were members of another guild.

Jedi, although by nature the players weren't elitists, were an elitists profession. Jedi caused the seperation between normal professions and the alpha profession. The GCW? It wasn't Imperials versus the Rebellion, it was one guilds Jedi vs another guilds Jedi. Groups would be formed to go the DWB... and because a person wasn't a Jedi, they sat out.

The Jedi profession put the wedge between them and everyone else. I remember how a certain friend of mine, the first friend I had in the WRA, changed the day she picked up Jedi. All of a sudden, anytime I hunted a Jedi, it was a personal attack on her and all that she believed in... true story, it was said in guild chat one day.

Even now, you sit here acting the elitist. People have a difference of opinion and the way the view the game and how they think it should be played... but yet, it's called "imposing". I sit here and read post after post in this thread by you of how the game should have been and how it was supposed to be and how this one server did such and such and it was the best ever... how are you being any different right now than anyone else posting on this thread? Are you not trying to impose your ideals of how it should be on everyone else?

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Shaike, for starters, you are not even a man of your word... you said when you left the guild that even tough you were going Imperial, you wouldn't be hunting any Jedi from your former guild. And it didn't take you long to break your word and attack some of your former guildmates... one of them you attacked in the middle of a base-busting, and even though you did your best to drag Imperial NPCs towards him, he still beat you. And that was the final impression that many of your former guildmates had of you -- someone who would break his word, attack and try to kill former guildmates, someone who could not be trusted to do what he said he would do. And why was there so much anger in you? Simply because of your blind hatred of all Jedi. As someone in the guild once told you, did your mom beat you up with a Luke Skywalker blanket when you were a kid? Because that kind of blind hatred really doesn't seem to have any rational basis. Hate-hate-hate. It's bad for you, you know.

And it might come as a great surprise to you to learn that in some regards, I might even be inclined to agree that in some ways the game would have been better off without any player ever being able to become Jedi. I set out in my first profession without any thought of Jedi or even less Jedi hunting... but once they opened up Pandora's Box, there was no turning back. They made the requirements to unlock Jedi so that they favored powergamers and the wanna-be-uber crowd. It did not really dawn on me how horribly the game had changed until the day when all of a sudden, everybody and their best buddy were chasing holos and setting out on a mad dash to master professions ASAP, promptly dropping them just as soon as they'd gotten their master box.

Alas, once the decision was made to have Jedi in the game, I suppose there was no turning back, nor was there any way to stop thousands of players from seeking the fastest route to Jedi. The interest having been piqued, the only sensible thing would have been, in my opinion, to make the Jedi profession as egalitarian as possible, and not limiting it to powergamers and people who could afford to spend an almost infinite number of hours grinding upwards of 32 professions. Since there is no going back, since it would be impossible and unmarketable to have SWG without Jedi, I am glad that force-sensitive is now a starting profession that allows for leveling relatively quickly to Jedi.

And given how many people have fought each other, and even in some cases betrayed their former guildmates over the issue, I am sure glad that forced pvp and player bounties are being eliminated.

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NewEye wrote:

MsNil /reported

Pussycat /reported

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Everything that I have posted in here has been done in accordance with the forum guidelines, AFAIK.

You are coming in here creating hostility andunfriendly conversation. Please refrain from posting.

On the contrary, the hostility was a result of the player bounty system... and I would like nothing more than for the discussion to remain on friendly terms.