Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Do NOT let people tell you that MBH / MCM is overpowered!
Fugitron wrote:
When did I say everyone wants to be like me or a jedi or have jedi only content... cause I would LOVE for you to quote me on it.....
I'm waiting......
oh wait, you CAN'T cause I never said that. I never even asked for a nerf, I make a comment about MY opinion of the skills in MCM and you automatically assume I want you nerfed. No, the profession is fine. Whats imbalanced is the heals mDoc and mCMscan do versus ANY PROFESSION, not just jedi.
Let me get this straight .... the HEALING professions shouldn't heal as much? Can I quote you on that?
Newsflash partner, they are supposed to be better at healing than ANY PROFESSION.
Message Edited by Ekwalizer on 08-30-2005 04:43 AM
Do people not want a challenge anymore?
As people have said to BH there is not 1 template to rule them all and this goes for jedi too.
Ekwalizer wrote:
I fully agree.
Typical Jedi who calls for nerfs:
*Yawn* "Oh I better check to see how much xp I gained overnight after I brush my teeth ... but before I get ready for school".
*Brushes teeth*
*Goes to computer room*
*Looks confused* "Hey, why am I at the cloners?"
*Checks Combat Log*
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 1064 points
Noob_AFK_Padawhiner is knocked down
Bad_MoFo_MBH ruptures Noob_AFK_Padawhiner's thyroid
Bad_MoFo_MBH roots Noob_AFK_Padawhiner
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 852 points
Bad_MoFo_MBH drains Noob_AFK_Padawhiner's electrolytes
Bad_MoFo_MBHshoots Noob_AFK_Padawhiner in the eye
Noob_AFK_Padawhiner looks like he is having difficulty seeing
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 854 points
etc etc etc
*Looks really angry* " I can't believe that dirty MBH/MCM attacked me while I was sleeping!"
*Realizes he's a Jedi* " I'll go to the forum and get this taken care of because I'm the Alpha-class, no one should be able to take down a Jedi at any time."
*Logs onto the Forum* "Nerfbat for MBH/MCM"
""Yesterday a Bounty hunter came for me, I looked at him and said "sup noobzor, you here to die?" He said "I'll show joo the noob" and shot me, his KD stuck and I'm on the ground. But that's ok because I can heal and buff while laying on my back. Hmmm, cannot KD Recover while KD. Oh well, I'll just lay here and heal and buff until it resets. "What's this?" I say to myself as I start seeing DOTs applied. Oh hell naw I scream. "Stop that now Mr. BH, you cannot use any abilities outside of the MBH table while you fight me!".
End Post
Replies:
/first
Totally agree dewd
/second
Wot a lamer ... using his secondary class to exploit a kill
/third; /pwnd
/fourth
Hello, this is CSR-Insert Name here. This problem will be fixed in the coming update, can't have you Jedi unhappy about getting killed.
/Thread locked.
You tell them brother!!!! i got mad pm in game when i killed 3 jedi afk ..
I tell the your the noob for being afk 
then i block them nuff said
DEATHKINFIL wrote:
Ekwalizer wrote:
I fully agree.
Typical Jedi who calls for nerfs:
*Yawn* "Oh I better check to see how much xp I gained overnight after I brush my teeth ... but before I get ready for school".
*Brushes teeth*
*Goes to computer room*
*Looks confused* "Hey, why am I at the cloners?"
*Checks Combat Log*
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 1064 points
Noob_AFK_Padawhiner is knocked down
Bad_MoFo_MBH ruptures Noob_AFK_Padawhiner's thyroid
Bad_MoFo_MBH roots Noob_AFK_Padawhiner
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 852 points
Bad_MoFo_MBH drains Noob_AFK_Padawhiner's electrolytes
Bad_MoFo_MBHshoots Noob_AFK_Padawhiner in the eye
Noob_AFK_Padawhiner looks like he is having difficulty seeing
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 854 points
etc etc etc
*Looks really angry* " I can't believe that dirty MBH/MCM attacked me while I was sleeping!"
*Realizes he's a Jedi* " I'll go to the forum and get this taken care of because I'm the Alpha-class, no one should be able to take down a Jedi at any time."
*Logs onto the Forum* "Nerfbat for MBH/MCM"
""Yesterday a Bounty hunter came for me, I looked at him and said "sup noobzor, you here to die?" He said "I'll show joo the noob" and shot me, his KD stuck and I'm on the ground. But that's ok because I can heal and buff while laying on my back. Hmmm, cannot KD Recover while KD. Oh well, I'll just lay here and heal and buff until it resets. "What's this?" I say to myself as I start seeing DOTs applied. Oh hell naw I scream. "Stop that now Mr. BH, you cannot use any abilities outside of the MBH table while you fight me!".
End Post
Replies:
/first
Totally agree dewd
/second
Wot a lamer ... using his secondary class to exploit a kill
/third; /pwnd
/fourth
Hello, this is CSR-Insert Name here. This problem will be fixed in the coming update, can't have you Jedi unhappy about getting killed.
/Thread locked.
I tell the your the noob for being afk
Laughing my arse off
funniest post i read in ages
How many times did you have to edit your post to think of that snappy comeback?
Ekwalizer wrote:
Fugitron wrote:
When did I say everyone wants to be like me or a jedi or have jedi only content... cause I would LOVE for you to quote me on it.....
I'm waiting......
oh wait, you CAN'T cause I never said that. I never even asked for a nerf, I make a comment about MY opinion of the skills in MCM and you automatically assume I want you nerfed. No, the profession is fine. Whats imbalanced is the heals mDoc and mCMscan do versus ANY PROFESSION, not just jedi.
Let me get this straight .... the HEALING professions shouldn't heal as much? Can I quote you on that?
Newsflash partner, they are supposed to be better at healing than ANY PROFESSION.
Message Edited by Ekwalizer on 08-30-2005 04:43 AM
and yes you can, take jedi out of the equation. Think of a swordsman in PvP or justa regular pistoleer/smuggler. All of you are comparing heals vs jedi CM vs jedi... well newsflash ppl yea there are alot of jedi but there are more regular profs out there than anything. I'm not saying they can't heal better or even fast, but what it is RIGHT NOW is too imbalanced vs ANY profession. The damage outputs are completely skewed, no one can outdamage their heals. Yes, I beleive a person who spent alot of money and time getting the best pearls for his/her saber SHOULD be able to inflict as much damage needed to overpower a regular profession (even just at 4xxx) heals. Now if he has an average saber then it would be more balanced, but right now currently you HAVE to have those uber sabers or else you are DEAD because you cannot outdamage them.
J-nine wrote:
DEATHKINFIL wrote:
Ekwalizer wrote:
I fully agree.
Typical Jedi who calls for nerfs:
*Yawn* "Oh I better check to see how much xp I gained overnight after I brush my teeth ... but before I get ready for school".
*Brushes teeth*
*Goes to computer room*
*Looks confused* "Hey, why am I at the cloners?"
*Checks Combat Log*
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 1064 points
Noob_AFK_Padawhiner is knocked down
Bad_MoFo_MBH ruptures Noob_AFK_Padawhiner's thyroid
Bad_MoFo_MBH roots Noob_AFK_Padawhiner
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 852 points
Bad_MoFo_MBH drains Noob_AFK_Padawhiner's electrolytes
Bad_MoFo_MBHshoots Noob_AFK_Padawhiner in the eye
Noob_AFK_Padawhiner looks like he is having difficulty seeing
Bad_MoFo_MBH damages Noob_AFK_Padawhiner for 854 points
etc etc etc
*Looks really angry* " I can't believe that dirty MBH/MCM attacked me while I was sleeping!"
*Realizes he's a Jedi* " I'll go to the forum and get this taken care of because I'm the Alpha-class, no one should be able to take down a Jedi at any time."
*Logs onto the Forum* "Nerfbat for MBH/MCM"
""Yesterday a Bounty hunter came for me, I looked at him and said "sup noobzor, you here to die?" He said "I'll show joo the noob" and shot me, his KD stuck and I'm on the ground. But that's ok because I can heal and buff while laying on my back. Hmmm, cannot KD Recover while KD. Oh well, I'll just lay here and heal and buff until it resets. "What's this?" I say to myself as I start seeing DOTs applied. Oh hell naw I scream. "Stop that now Mr. BH, you cannot use any abilities outside of the MBH table while you fight me!".
End Post
Replies:
/first
Totally agree dewd
/second
Wot a lamer ... using his secondary class to exploit a kill
/third; /pwnd
/fourth
Hello, this is CSR-Insert Name here. This problem will be fixed in the coming update, can't have you Jedi unhappy about getting killed.
/Thread locked.
I tell the your the noob for being afk
Laughing my arse off
funniest post i read in ages
Look I am not saying that BOTH sides don't have their whiners.
For BHs they cry nerf cause they feel they should have a chance at killing a jedi.
For Jedi they are upset (this applies to legitimate complaints) that complain that at FULL TEMPLATE after they ground for months and then spend months unlocking that a REGULAR PROFESSION can come close to killing them. Which then forces them to ask for either jedi to be buffed up or others down.
Yea this post was humorous, but its theserash overgeneralizations that HARM the legitimate posters and which causes them to be flamed. Which then causes more drama.
Fugitron wrote:
How many times did you have to edit your post to think of that snappy comeback?
Just once actually, it was a typo ;p
It was just so blatantly obvious that I couldn't resist busting your chops about it.
As to your comment about overgeneralizations, I agree and I posted that to be funny
There are plenty of whiney BHs too
But, one thing that alot of folks overlook (especially Jedi) when thumping their Alpha-class chest is that the whole 1.5x stronger thingthat the Devs tell you that you are is very misleading.
This is how Jedi are 1.5x stronger:
Minimum requirements for MBH brings you to CL 55, and leaves you with129 skill points to fill yourself out to CL80.
The minimum requirements, including 24points in force sensitive to become MLS brings you to CL80, and leaves you with 137 points left to fill out your "template". This applies to all Jedi Disciplines.
Thus, it costs an MBH more skill points to become CL55 than any MJedi to become CL80.
CL55 x .5 = CL27.5
CL55 + CL27.5 = CL82.5 (this is your MBH + 1.5)
Once the MBH has spent all 250 points and is also CL80, the 1.5x more powerful theory goes out the window and it comes down to Player versus Player. The only way for a Jedi to be 1.5x more powerful in the end is for Jedi CL to extend to 120, because after you have Mastered any Jedi Discipline, those 137 points aren't going to make you any more than CL80.
Sure it costs Jedi months (or used to anyway) of playing and grinding ..... but I really don't care. That was a decision every Jedi made.
evhorizon wrote:
Rogue-Elite wrote:
Force weaken FTW
All Force Weaken does is increase the chance for things to land. It does NOTHING (or from what I've seen) to increase damage output with powers.
As for Mpowers Jedi being difficult. Yes. We are if we have the right template and know what we're doing. Non-jedi fall easily to choke because it bypasses the armor. However, you don't see that many MPowers jedi running around because it's very difficult to play in Jedi vs. Jedi... which is what 80% of pvp is nowadays. The reason for this is because Enhancers have Force Shield, and Defenders have Force Defense (not to mention a MD is impossible for a Mpowers to take on... end of story, unless you have some LS to back up or some friends, or he's just an idiot with his template)
With Force Defense and Force shield Mpowers vs. a Jedi is a joke at times. Choke will tick for 100 damage or so, lightning hit for 400...
But yeah, that's why you won't see as many Mpowers Jedi around compared to MLS/Enhancer/Defenders. Enhancers are the hardest IMO for a Non-jedi to beat because of FR3 and Stasis. Especially MCM's due to the multitude of resistance buffs they have.
MPowers Imperial Jedi are everywhere on Chilastra.
ProzacRefugee wrote:
diepa wrote:
Spookibus wrote:
There seems to be an assumption among many that MBH / MCM is the "uber-1337" BH template, and that there's nothing better. This is especially prevalent among our good friends in the Jedi forum.
However, the right Jedi template can pick an MBH / MCM apart. In particular, I find fighting Jedi with a lot of Powers in their template extremely difficult, much more so than even the MDEF types. Master Powers have a lot of tricks at their disposal, some of which bypass armor and, if used properly, make CM debuffs like Thyroid Rupture all but useless. Likewise, the states line of Jedi Healer wipes out all a CM's DoTs and states.
These guys give up a lot of offense and defense to do have an effective anti-CM template, though, so this leaves them vulnerable to BH templates more focused on damage dealing or position control (Pistols/Carbs/Rifles).
Yeah, MCM / MBH is a good template. But there are Jedi templates that make it completely ineffective.
See the nerf coming do you?
Jedi is supposed to be 1.5x stronger than full temp combat character, however many full temp jedi lose consistently to this temp. I am not talking about the BH sneaking up on Jedi..this is a toe to toe fight, with the CM coming out the victor more times than not. Which means the CM is overpowered.
Which is because "many full temp jedi" all chose the same template. CM is not that strong, but it is good at dealing with MDef. Most Jedi took that as their IWIN button, so BH came up with a response. But a MBH/MCM gives up alot of damage (through accuracy) to get MCM. A Jedi that can do high amounts of damage or escape will have no problems with them, it's only the ones that try to go heal for heal with a DOT on them that are weak against this template.
It's paper for rock, stop calling for a nerf and play scissors.
All about mind vs force at the end of the day
Whichever one runs out first gets killed, even a non full temped Jedi like me can kill an MCM/BH if he doesn't know what he's up to.
CM doesn't need nerfing, tbh I think the only thing I've really seen people crying out about are the heals and if you rely purely on cm heals you're gonna get mind humped pretty fast, and the fact that the -40 slow debuff is out of line with the +25 doc speed buff, now I've faced quite a few CM/BH and the ones that know what they're up to will get me, but with x4x4 LS and 3xxx Enh I can bring my speed up enough to force the BH into healing more often, it's an annoyance not an I win button.
If I decided to get into hunting Jedi with Kai I'd go MCM purely because thats A: What Darkwulf was originally I'm comfortable with it, and B: It works, it takes effort and practice to use but it does work.
Message Edited by DWolf on 08-31-2005 05:21 AM
Fugitron wrote:
Remilliod wrote:
Fugitron wrote:
JoBoFedderish wrote:
And the nerfs go on.....again when will jedi quit screaming for nerfs of other profs and actually learn theirs? Look I can stand against jedi for 45 minutes and Im a MBH/MP not MCM, let me guess jedi are gonna scream for even more nerfs on those profs next?
Who is screaming? I was making a point that those two things are unbalanced (not just with jedi but the GAME). I have no problem otherwise. Its not like I have ever lost to a BH.
You have NEVER lost to a BH yet you are trying to nerf us???
Dont you think thats a touch sad?
What did a BH once get you to half health? Better nerf us cause someone might get you to a quarter health one of these days.
Why don't you actually read past that post to my OTHER posts and THEN make a response. I hate noob posters, they see one thing and comment about it before finishing reading the other posts.
Oh I did.
You say you are better than the average jedi because of skill, attachments, and your saber.
Chances are your saber is a bit above the average if you are pre-CU. Doesnt mean as much as people often make out. I have beaten several pre-CU jedi with nice sabers. I have been beaten by some too. It does help of course, but player skill is more important than your saber damage.
Skill attachments... Very over-rated. Trust me I have +25 in every skill I posses. It gives you a very slight edge, nothing more.
If you are beating every MBH MCM that comes after you, the reason is most probably the fact that you know what you are doing. MBH MCM is tailored to kill your template. Which means you are beating the very best collection of skills that can be put together to beat your template.
You say MCM is overpowered. I have been one for quite a while. Against a fully ranged player with maybe 4000 CM, I struggle. Those rifles hit hard, and with some BH, Smuggler or commando, I find myself healing once for every shot I take.
You see, we sacrifice offensive power and speed for the dots and debuffs. We also sacrifice a bit of defense, but not as much. So against a ranged player who knows what he is doing, I am taking twice the damage that I put out. UNLESS of course I manage to close the gap and land my debuffs. Which may not happen if he keeps the gap open. A goodfull ranged playerwho knows how to pvpcan use his specials to keep the range, and put so much damage out that it beats my heals.
Yes, this kind of ranged player is rare, but onlybecause all the good, non-jedi, pvpers want a template that can stand against jedi.
Which brings me to my second point:
The only reason so many bounty hunters are MCM these days is because it is the best way to defeat the jedi FOTM. Mdef Mls. I discovered this early, luckily, and have had this template since the CU. It seems it is now the BH FOTM.
The offensive firepower that we sacrifice to get MCM, suddenly isnt as much of a burden against master defenders. Because we hit for min damage anyway, wether our accuracy is 180 or 300. Against Mdef it doesnt make a difference. There is no way a Mdef that plays his temp well can be killed in an alpha strike by anyone, if he knows what he is doing, has his macroes going, is ready for an attack, and has a heal ready. It just doesnt happen.
We ARE balanced against most professions. Its just that the Mdef Mls template is all but invulnerable to any normal templateEXCEPT us. And as you stated, its still not an I win button against you.
All Im really trying to suggest is this: From a perspective of Mdef Mls, yes the MBH MCM template does look better than other MBH temps. But only because it is tailored to kill you. Ask a Mpowers or Mhealer template how they do against us.
Im not trying to flame you, hope you realise this.
Fugitron wrote:
Remilliod wrote:
Fugitron wrote:
JoBoFedderish wrote:
And the nerfs go on.....again when will jedi quit screaming for nerfs of other profs and actually learn theirs? Look I can stand against jedi for 45 minutes and Im a MBH/MP not MCM, let me guess jedi are gonna scream for even more nerfs on those profs next?
Who is screaming? I was making a point that those two things are unbalanced (not just with jedi but the GAME). I have no problem otherwise. Its not like I have ever lost to a BH.
You have NEVER lost to a BH yet you are trying to nerf us???
Dont you think thats a touch sad?
What did a BH once get you to half health? Better nerf us cause someone might get you to a quarter health one of these days.
Why don't you actually read past that post to my OTHER posts and THEN make a response. I hate noob posters, they see one thing and comment about it before finishing reading the other posts.
Oh I did.
You say you are better than the average jedi because of skill, attachments, and your saber.
Chances are your saber is a bit above the average if you are pre-CU. Doesnt mean as much as people often make out. I have beaten several pre-CU jedi with nice sabers. I have been beaten by some too. It does help of course, but player skill is more important than your saber damage.
Skill attachments... Very over-rated. Trust me I have +25 in every skill I posses. It gives you a very slight edge, nothing more.
If you are beating every MBH MCM that comes after you, the reason is most probably the fact that you know what you are doing. MBH MCM is tailored to kill your template. Which means you are beating the very best collection of skills that can be put together to beat your template.
You say MCM is overpowered. I have been one for quite a while. Against a fully ranged player with maybe 4000 CM, I struggle. Those rifles hit hard, and with some BH, Smuggler or commando, I find myself healing once for every shot I take.
You see, we sacrifice offensive power and speed for the dots and debuffs. We also sacrifice a bit of defense, but not as much. So against a ranged player who knows what he is doing, I am taking twice the damage that I put out. UNLESS of course I manage to close the gap and land my debuffs. Which may not happen if he keeps the gap open. A goodfull ranged playerwho knows how to pvpcan use his specials to keep the range, and put so much damage out that it beats my heals.
Yes, this kind of ranged player is rare, but onlybecause all the good, non-jedi, pvpers want a template that can stand against jedi.
Which brings me to my second point:
The only reason so many bounty hunters are MCM these days is because it is the best way to defeat the jedi FOTM. Mdef Mls. I discovered this early, luckily, and have had this template since the CU. It seems it is now the BH FOTM.
The offensive firepower that we sacrifice to get MCM, suddenly isnt as much of a burden against master defenders. Because we hit for min damage anyway, wether our accuracy is 180 or 300. Against Mdef it doesnt make a difference. There is no way a Mdef that plays his temp well can be killed in an alpha strike by anyone, if he knows what he is doing, has his macroes going, is ready for an attack, and has a heal ready. It just doesnt happen.
We ARE balanced against most professions. Its just that the Mdef Mls template is all but invulnerable to any normal templateEXCEPT us. And as you stated, its still not an I win button against you.
All Im really trying to suggest is this: From a perspective of Mdef Mls, yes the MBH MCM template does look better than other MBH temps. But only because it is tailored to kill you. Ask a Mpowers or Mhealer template how they do against us.