Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: ENOUGH!
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=SWG%20December%20Chat
Reilec wrote:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=SWG%20December%20Chat
Yeah, and? What did they say other than "Yup,X and Y arebusted and we knowtheyought to be fixed"? Did they say when? Did they say they're being fixed now? Did they saythey're beingfixed in the next publish? The one after? No.
They didn't say anything specific because they're not working on any of it right now. I'm a very good study of human nature and I know they'd have said something if they had something they could say.
You really need to read that whole thing again. They said that they plan to make droids work against Jedis, NPC and PC Jedis, and that Player Bounties are planned and how they are thinking of implementing them.
THX1139 wrote:
They didn't say anything specific because they're not working on any of it right now. I'm a very good study of human nature and I know they'd have said something if they had something they could say.
Do I need to do more than highlight here? Do I really need to point out how "planning" and "thinking" are direct indicators of lack of current action?
Reilec wrote:
You really need to read that whole thing again. They said that they plan to make droids work against Jedis, NPC and PC Jedis, and that Player Bounties are planned and how they are thinking of implementing them.
Try this on for size:I'm planning on becoming a billionaire.Give me some money, I swear I'llmake it worth your whilein the future.
Oh, by the way, I wasn't speaking as myself there. I was speaking as SOE. It's basically the deal we've all made with them.
I feel your pain BHs...
..but...I am taking BH Carbine line just to make my profession of Carbineer worth something.
There are other classes in much more significant pain than the BH, Carbineers, Pikeman, Chefs, Smugglers, Squad Leaders.
Reilec, you aren't taking into account the 3 nerfs on this profession this publish alone.
Knockdown has been removed completely.
Bleed Shot is the only DoT now that is mitigated.
And the Jedi name removeal, another sweet one, after claiming it was we who were exploiting, when we all know it was the Jedi exploiting the system.
Anybody satisfied with the condition we are in or the state of the development of this game is downright crazy.
Therearentan wrote:
Tanks is correct.
I'm going to go a step further. A large part of the problems BH's are having right now are due entirely to Wepps.
Wepps was the corespondant, and rather than behave like an adult and a professional, he turned BH's issues into a crusade against every other combat proffession that was functional. All of his work constituted direct & indirect attacks against other combat proffessions, often with little or no basis in fact. He often left out important facets of his "issues" in favor of making things look alot worse than they seemed. Available information indicates that he did that, not only here, but on the corespondant boards as well. Of course, being the corespondant, his "information" was accepted as valid without further investigation by the Players. I'm not pointing fingers, I would have done the same thing too reading a "Leaders" posts.
But his information wasn't correct. It never had been. Many saw that, including the Devs. Why would the Devs listen to him when they knew he would purposefully ignore things and campaign against other proffessions to fulfill his goals? Worse, his misinformation tainted the BH community, making it equally difficult to converse with them.
I've played Smuggler, Pistoleer, and TKA. His points have Validity, but only if you ignore other factors. Such as his campaign against the Smuggler Combos, which he never mentions that they 2 out of the 3 skills are on timers and resistable. Or his campaign against Pistoleers, which he never mentions that the key to making it function is spending208 skill credits. More skill credits than it takes to Master Commando, which by his 217 arguements should grant that person that power.
The ONLY way the BH community is going to see better communication and results is to stop listening to Wepps, and his dogma, and following Tanks. Tanks has a better grasp on reality, and is actually working to make BH better. Unlike Wepps.
This is dead on.
When I read "ENOUGH!" and saw Wepps' name on the post, I thought he had finally grown a spine and was announcing that he'd quit. That would be best for everyone, it seems.
If Wepps would actually deliver on his word and quit, we wouldn't have the phenomenon where people look to his sideshow for insight that, frankly, isn't there. There are dozens of posters on this forum with a better grasp of the profession and actually know how to cooperate with others and think creatively. The sun will shine a little bit brighter on the BH forum when Wepps finally decides to quit stroking his ego and stops playing this game.
Tanks inherited a forum that Wepps poisoned. This is THE angriest forum in all of SWG, and for no good reason. It doesn't have to be that way, and Tanks has been trying to improve the atmosphere. If people bothered to give Tanks the feedback he's been asking for, we'd all be better off. If we could show some civility and offer the Devs mature feedback to their comments rather than vent and flame, they'd stick around to discuss things.
Does anyone seriously think that this forum is being treated any differently than other ones? Can you dig up dozens of red-named posts from any other profession's forum? I'll bet Droid Engineers or Chefswould trade all the Dev posts they've got for a skillset that works one tenth as effectively as what Bounty Hunters or even Squad Leaders can currently access.
One thing you'll see if you read other forums - relatively speaking, BHs are in pretty good shape. This is not Pikeman, Droid Engineer, Squad Leader, Chef, Smuggler, etc. Despite the bugs, there are plenty of working skills.
The second thing you'll see if you read other forums - people from professions that are virtually unplayable (ie, a few of the ones mentioned above)complain MUCH less than the people on the BH forum. Wonder why nobody gives you a shoulder to dry on when you head to the Discussion forum to demand fixes? It's because relatively speaking, BH is working very well, and many other professions either can't do the things they're supposed to (eg, Smugglers don't smuggle) or don't do anything at all (eg, Droid Engineer). Are the other professions happy about their bugs and problems? No. But do they flame the Devs repeatedly about these problems? No. And when they see comparatively functional BHs declaring that BHs are "second-class combatants" or "unplayable" or "singled outby the Devs," they look at their own abilities and their own feedback from the Devs and wonder what BHs could possibly be thinking. BHs complaining about some Dev vendetta against them, or that they need more urgent attention than other professions need to have their heads examined. It could be MUCH worse, and for many people, it is.
Anyway, Therearentan and Tanks have said it beautifully - the Devs are in a no-win situation whenever they respond to anything BH-related. Wepps continues to drag down BH with wild exaggerations and unrealistic demands, and he and the others who have turned Dev Flaming into a forum sport are shooting themselves in the foot.
Once you kill the messenger, you shouldn't expect him to have a conversation with you.
I was furious after the many knockdown nerfs while I was playing, but I got over them...kinda. I remember the first month or so of the game, knockdown worked every single time and it was extremely deadly in PvP. This is when the BH nerf cries started and everybody started to associate knockdown with Bounty Hunters. Since that time, people have been crying nerf to Bounty Hunters, even though we have been nerfed, indirectly. After the many indirect nerfs, we have become inferior in PvP, even though we spend far more skill points than others in a single profession that is based on combat.
Now, the DEVs must give us some kind of communication to show that they are working on our profession. The bugs have been old since day one and must be dealt with. Other professions are bugged and broken as well and they need to be fixed as well.
Ok, here is MY point of view on the issue. First, I agree that Carbineer, Pikeman, and Chef all need help as much as we do... But SMUGLER, come on people, lets be real. There is nothing wrong with smugler, other than a lack of smuggling content. Feign Death works, lowblow works, slicing works, spices work. etc. BTW i dont think Feign Death should work in PVP at all.
Second. Other than Jedi, BH should be the best in all combat, PERIOD. Anyone playing a BH knows and believes this. Other classes crying that BH is overpowered when done correctly are right. Im sorry, a guy holding a plain pistol or a sword should have NO CHANCE against a Master Bounty Hunter. There is NO excuse for Bounty Hunters getting whipped regularly by any class other than Jedi. This is the real issue, I dont care that my FKD doesnt work right, or that Eye Shot is blocked by a good helmet....It should not matter, they should have NO chance against us 1v1. And for those of you who say get buffed and wear good armor... Well I am a Wookie, what do you tell me? that the 400 extra Ham points make up for 80% resistant armor... Yeah right.
Wepps said:
Reilec, you aren't taking into account the 3 nerfs on this profession this publish alone.
Knockdown has been removed completely.
Bleed Shot is the only DoT now that is mitigated.
And the Jedi name removeal, another sweet one, after claiming it was we who were exploiting, when we all know it was the Jedi exploiting the system.
Wepps, all of the aboveare bull droppings.
Knockdown is not removed. I myself used it in a duel with a commando today. Hacik KDed me twice with a Laser carbine today as well, while I was wrapping up my FKD tests.
All bleed shots are mitigated indirectly because they are based on initital damage. The part you left out from the post you quoted even said so. That particular dev also said he wasn't sure, and needed to check with Dan in regards to Bleeding shot.
The Jedi name removal is a BUG, all of the bounty names are gone, not just the Jedi. It has been coming and going since the publish. Yesterday Hacik picked up a bounty on Jantje and DBed him in Rori, and yes the name was there. Today the names are gone again. Probably will be back tomorrow.
Considering how BH is getting even more nerfed by the moment, "in your eyes" even without software changes, are you sure you want to wait 11 more days? 
.
Fixed a few grammatical errors.
Message Edited by Tanks on 12-20-2003 10:02 PM
Tokmirr wrote:
I agree that Carbineer, Pikeman, and Chef all need help as much as we do... But SMUGLER, come on people, lets be real. There is nothing wrong with smugler, other than a lack of smuggling content. Feign Death works, lowblow works, slicing works, spices work. etc. BTW i dont think Feign Death should work in PVP at all.
The only line any Smugglers are happy with is Dirty Fighting, which works well . . . if you get Pistoleer or BH skills to augment poor speed and accuracy so the shots actually hit. Feign Death works in PVP, but it usually means that you'll get fully-black HAM bars from people who spam wound shots over and over again while destroying your armor. Why would anyone use this in PVP again?
Slicing, well, let's see - I guess you could mention mission terminals, which net an extra 1000 credits or so from high-end missions at the expense of about 500 credits worth of tools,and locked containers, which are wastes of time. The only really worthwhile things to slice are weapons and armor - and Smugglers can't even control what gets sliced. This whole skill line is useful, but nowhere near done. Smugglers want more options on slicing, want control over slices, want more things to slice like droids, vehicles, travel terminals, etc. The "Slice Monkey" moniker is currently alive and sticking.
Spice is spice is spice. There's no experimentation, and thus any spice you see is exactly the same as any other spice by the same name. That's no way to have a viable economy - quality should matter. Right now, the only people making money off of spice are the people with a crafting profession who picked up the Spice line and use their castoff junk resources to crank out loads of spice and then glut the market with 3000-credit crates of Muon.
Underworld is the single most useless skill branch in the entire game. Bottom line - if you are Neutral, you get no use from this whatsoever.
And if Underworld weren't bad enough, the Master box is, well, empty. There's a 5% bonus to slicing, but it's not even documented. There's a 25% discount for Faction purchases which, if you're Neutral, is useless. Other than that, there's nothing there. No extra Spice skills, no Dirty Fighting bonuses, no nothing. Worst Master box in SWG.
And content - well, let's just say that half a year after launch, Smugglers still can't smuggle anything.
Second. Other than Jedi, BH should be the best in all combat, PERIOD. Anyone playing a BH knows and believes this. Other classes crying that BH is overpowered when done correctly are right. Im sorry, a guy holding a plain pistol or a sword should have NO CHANCE against a Master Bounty Hunter. There is NO excuse for Bounty Hunters getting whipped regularly by any class other than Jedi. This is the real issue, I dont care that my FKD doesnt work right, or that Eye Shot is blocked by a good helmet....It should not matter, they should have NO chance against us 1v1. And for those of you who say get buffed and wear good armor... Well I am a Wookie, what do you tell me? that the 400 extra Ham points make up for 80% resistant armor... Yeah right.
Nobody interested in combatis going to bother playing anything other than BH if, as you write, everyone else has "NO CHANCE" against a Bounty Hunter. So either balance it so different professions have the advantage in different situations, or you'll be playing Bounty Hunters Wars. You are asking for the fabled "I WIN" button, and nobody is going to give it to you.
Okay, tangent done.
Wepps I love what you have done and tried to have done for us. But my god man I am sick of the way we have been man handled by the devs w/ the lack of defense mods too but bitching all the time is gonna get u no where.
Just cancel your account at the end of this month as u said and move along and finish ur dragon char on Horizons or whatever it is u play there. I have bitched alot about our proffesion too, but you know, it is gonna take time. I agree "it shouldn't take time..it should happen next patch yada yada yada" but the reality is it ISN'T. We will be fixed one day.
The only reason I play is so I can get away from my live-in girlfriend and my **edit**ty ass catering job. I like the fact that I can come home at night and be a Bounty Hunter even if it is in SWG, and I have alot of fun carrying on sensless banter with my ALL BOUNTY HUNTER GUILD on the Tarquinas server. (SKULL) and we are 75+ strong and have YET to lose a guild war. There is strength in numbers and and one day we will be good solo as well but if ur not having fun, jest leave..and give Tanks a break he tries..u where there once u know what he has to deal with.
Ibicus Nim <Master Bounty Hunter>
