Bounty Hunter Archive

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ScoutMastr wrote:

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Vertexon wrote:

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ScoutMastr wrote:

Solution: Bring Bio-Engineered pets in line with wild animals. Apply more weight to things like Kinetic resist, Light Armor, HAM, and special attacks to discourage brokenly overspecialized pets

No, No, and NO! .../sigh...I apologize for yelling, butBE pets are supposed to be better than a wild counterpart with the same CL, it's to encourage CH's to buy BE pets.

BE pets are likelysupposed to be better for the CL, but I think most people would objectively agree that what's possible since the revamp is extreme (I'm not just referring to non-CH pets, either). It's not possible to have wild twins with Light armor unless you go with the Kinetic Vulnerable Riverside Sulfur Mynock. However, not only can you have Light Armor, Highly Kinetic Resistant BE twins...there are recipes floating around for havingthose qualities in triplets. That's not just better, that'sincreasing the power of a CH who uses BE pets vs. Wild pets by 300%.

I'm no mathematician, but I think we're being a bit loose with our math here...300%? First we'd have to conclude that having armor makes a BE pet 100% better than the wild, right? Doesn't matter really, the cloning process is all about compromises. We may sacrifice those resists we feel aren't important so that light armor and kinetic come through at a lowered CL--that's common sense, but ironically you've already suggested the answer: Give wild creatures a variety of different damage types. I'm not sure how they'd do that though, considering that energy, heat, cold, blast, and electric, would probably not be in their natural capabilities-stun and acid?...should be ok. It's something for the devs to think about though as they introduce new creatures to the game. Even if just kinetic, stun, and acid damage were used EQUALLY throughout the wild creatures, that would be enough to keep BE's from concentrating on kinetic/armor only--then there's the fact that wild creatures usually hit the health more often, so we stagger HAM accordingly to save a few CL points. If the HAM were being hit more evenly, we wouldn't see BE pets with 12k/7k/5k HAM's running about. You simply don't limit (nerf) a BE's ability, just to "quick fix" this problem--as a CH, you especially, should know better...for shame Vert.

The 300% number is based on being able to use one Light Armor kinetic resist wild pet (probably around CL 45-50), versus three Light Armor kinetic resist BE pets at oraround CL 23 (with comparablestats to the wild CL 45-50 guy). That was really just meant as a rough indicator, and not a precise mathematical measurement. The advantage of the Light Armor triplets is probably in reality evenlarger than 300%due to (A) Having access to up to six special attacksinstead of two, and (B) Having access tofast-moving body shapes like the razor cat.

Giving PvE enemies a variety of damage types would be helpful, but it wouldn't be a solution to the problem. Namely because you can pick and choose your targets in PvE, and because you can have a datapad full of specialized pets for every situation. If sharnaffs doblast damageand I want to go sharnaff hunting, I pull my blast-resistant BE pet(s). If war grondas do kinetic, I pull my kinetic-resistant BE pet(s) instead. When would I pull my well-rounded wild pets? Probably never, if I have a roster of BE pets to cover the various possible combat situations.

As for "overspecialization"...are you serious? Specialization is the key to our craft, in fact we are endeavoring to further specialize pets for the CH community. The stats you mentioned are extremely weighted, and we have to be very careful and try many recipes/experimentations to come up with viable pets.

Overspecialization is part of the imbalance. Clones that are designed for PvE are being heavily skewed toward the qualities I mentioned (Kinetic resist, Light Armor, low damage, high HAM). Specialization in generalis an important andvalued part of the system... but overspecialization is imbalanced. You don't seecreatures with low damage, 50% Kinetic resist, Light Armor, and vulnerabilities to everything else walking around in the wild. Fighting something like that wouldn't be very fun,nor(I argue) wouldwielding such a dramatically skewed pet in the Kinetic-dominated PvE world. But these kinds of pets are exactly what is possible in the current BE system.

No, you don't see creatures like that in the wild, that's what we do, and it's why we became BE's--to make specialized pets...I can not stress this enough. Who are you to tell us they're "over" specialized? Specialization = efficiency, it would be inefficient to clone in resists that a CH will not encounter while using the pet, thus upping the CL. However, in the wild, creature stats are more evenly distributed--giving them a wide variety of uses. As for the fun factor--trust me, with our current combat capabilities, these pets aren't what's killing our fun.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that specialization is bad. Specialization is the cornerstone of the BE cloning line. I am saying that overspecialization is unbalanced, and that the current BE system is allowing people to produce overspecialized pets.

Again, the fact that wild pets are well-rounded isn't much of a benefit, because an entire datapad full of highly specialized BE pets is even more well-rounded. If every player could only store one pet (something I definitely do NOT advocate, by the way ), then being well-rounded would be a useful trait for an individual pet. But our datapads are like toolboxes. Why would you want a tool that does a variety of tasks in a lackluster manner, when you can just get high quality specialized tools for each of those functions to pull out as needed?

FYI, As bad as we have it when it comes to storage for our pets, BE's have terrible dna storage problems, because they don't stack--this makes every sample very valuable--so when I tell you that we have to try many recipes to come up with these specialized pets, that's A LOT of dna--but specialization is what makes the process worth the frustration.

I do lurk on the Bio-Engineer forum, and understand the difficulties Bio-Engineers go through (particularly those who docontinual experimenting, rather thanrelying onalready esablished recipes). But some (not all) of the products ofthe BElabors are unbalancing gameplay and draining fun from the Creature Handling. Part of the inherentfun and appeal of the CH profession for some folksis searchingdangerous alien worlds for cool pets. That needs to come back, but there first needs to be a reason tolook for those pets. Ideally a balance will be struck in which both Tamers and Bio-Engineers co-exist.

I think this was a bogus argument from the start. If finding and taming creatures is what a CH found fun about the profession, then they still do. With rares out there now, it's even better--but if it's power you want, then all it becomes is "I want my power for free"...you'd be willing to invest the time in searching for that most powerful tamable, and I can respect that, but for some reason, some of those same CH's can't respect the time and effort BE's put into their craft, and therefore call for nerfs. Look at it this way: a CH can find, tame, and use a wild pet to make money doing missions, or possibly even sell the creature. A BE can make a pet, but with no CH skill, that pet has to be sold. There's no other way for that creation to pay off for that BE. A BE pet's stats have to be skewed in order for a CH to feel it's worth it--if the stats are close to a wild counterpart, then the CH would be more likely to do the "fun" thing, and go find the wild (baby)...so long BE market.

I understand what you're saying, but it's important to look at it from all perspectives. Turn the situation around and put yourself in the Tamer's position. BE pets wereonce entirely inferior to what could be found in the wild. If sampling DNA and combining it into clone bodies is what BEs found fun about the profession, why wasn't that enough? Why even worry about selling those pets to other people? The answer is the same as it currently is for Tamers: the act ofobtaining the pets isgood gameplay, but needs to be rewarding to be truly fun.

In general, it's not a question of greed, laziness, or wanting something for nothing. Like it or not, the Creature Handler and Bio-Engineer professions have overlapping functionality. My goal is to represent the CH profession as holistically as possible, which means recognizing the various facets of the community. That's why I'd like to see a balance struck whereby Wild andBE pets can co-exist and both be valuable, and Tamers and Bio-Engineers can feel their iconic roles are accompanied by a sense of tangible accomplishment. The main function of pets in SWG is combat, so that's going to mean combat ability.

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Message Edited by Vertexon on 07-18-2004 04:52 PM

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Dodece wrote:

I hate to burst anyones bubble but if ninety percent of their staff is in the jtl. Exactly who do you think would do this stuff. There is nobody left to do anything. The reason for the questions is to get people to talk instead of hit the cancel button. Nobody to read your ideas or to impliment them.

We all got punched in the face a few days ago. Do not walk right into another knuckle sandwich.This is just another way to lie and pacify you. To do these things codeing is involved. There is nobody to do any codeing for them. Do not be blinded by a cookie. This is now standard dev stalling tactic number one. Ask people what they want. Pretend to pay attention, and since they think you are doing something for them they will not leave.

Please show them that you are smarter then that.

My subscription ends in two weeks. Like so many year long customers. I no longer have any hope for this game. The lies the horrid bugs. The complete desire to take me for every cent they can. I can list of the thousand wrong things in the game, but we all know them by now.

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Vienge wrote:

Don't forget what he said.

See sig.

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Blackman is such an ass.

I'm playing the game, but I'm far from happy with everything, especially his frauduent comments.